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jonluke |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bloodbowl
 Posted: Nov 01, 2008 - 04:35 PM
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Joined: Oct 31, 2008
Wales
Posts: 15
Status: Offline
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the size thing does indeed change the advantages of throwing teams compared to bashy or runny teams, however, the original GW polystyrene board was much smaller, yet used the same throwing templates and is also Tournament legal for their BB cups, this considered I think the very minor size difference is tolerable, however I will be trying to match the BB pitch square sizes.
From the comments so far the main problem here appears to be the price. I'l do my best to cut the cost as much as possible. In argument I would offer the examples of the regular sales of NAF version blocking dice on ebay for $40US - for 3 dice.
But I will try to keep the price down.
GW says that the problem with pitch selling that infringes them is that the majority of their sales of Bloodbowl are for pitches. Gamers tend to buy and convert teams from all over the place but can only buy pitches in the full box set.
I didn't know that elfbal had already had to withdraw the sales of pitches, that would indeed seem to limit the possibilities.
GW copyright policy maintains that 8 major changes (Pitch length, dugout attachments, turn counter inclusion, dead zombie rising, sponsor picture, pitch relief writing, original design and construction, crowd stands, gates, underground elements, square size difference etc...) will deviate from their design far enough in order to alleviate legal complications. However, I'm sure that GW legal staff will have all sorts of ways of killing a project if they deem it necessary. |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bloodbowl
Posted: Nov 01, 2008 - 05:18 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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jonluke,
History lesson to help you out.
http://www.impactminiatures.com/FeltMats.html
First two are actually pictures of what we sold that GW contacted us over. Nothing but lines on felt which I'm told per the USA lawyers is perfectly legal for us to sell. In our webstore the words Blood Bowl never appeared anywhere on the site or with this item. GW-UK legal gets hold of me and says they disagree. They believe they can copyright a pattern of lines. At the end of the day ... we never received an official cease and desist letter but to smooth the waters for opening BBFigs.com ... we took them out of the online store. Problem is we sold so many to vendors way before that exchange ... that I'm sure they'll be around for some time to come through other channels.
Galak |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bloodb
Posted: Nov 01, 2008 - 07:03 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
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jonluke wrote: the original GW polystyrene board was much smaller, yet used the same throwing templates and is also Tournament legal for their BB cups,
Incorrect - all the GW run tourneys use the standard 3rd ed pitch. I honestly don't know of any tournament (NAF or not) that's used the 2nd ed pitch. |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bloodb
Posted: Nov 01, 2008 - 08:22 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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Darkson wrote: jonluke wrote: the original GW polystyrene board was much smaller, yet used the same throwing templates and is also Tournament legal for their BB cups,
Incorrect - all the GW run tourneys use the standard 3rd ed pitch. I honestly don't know of any tournament (NAF or not) that's used the 2nd ed pitch.
Galak |
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jonluke |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bloodbowl
Posted: Nov 02, 2008 - 06:22 AM
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Joined: Oct 31, 2008
Wales
Posts: 15
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The price issue is the biggest worry, I'll do my best to keep the costs down and will have more accurate pricing once I've actually constructed a pitch or two. Having weighed the board I've already got (Acrylic rather than chemiwood) I reckon I could get the price to between £80 and £120, but considering there are regular sales of NAF blocking dice at $40 on ebay (3 blacks are currently £26 - nearly $45) I was thinking there are people willing to pay a lot for quality items.
GW copyright policy states 8 major changes to a products design differs far enough for independent sales without infringement - I'll have to find out what "major changes to a products design" really means but it sounds promising at least.
Could I also ask people to count up their biggest forgeworld order to date so far, mine comes in at £160 for an epic Imperial Guard army (and I'm a fairly average gamer aswell).
Cheers. |
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jonluke |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bloodb
Posted: Nov 02, 2008 - 06:24 AM
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Joined: Oct 31, 2008
Wales
Posts: 15
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GalakStarscraper wrote: Darkson wrote: jonluke wrote: the original GW polystyrene board was much smaller, yet used the same throwing templates and is also Tournament legal for their BB cups,
Incorrect - all the GW run tourneys use the standard 3rd ed pitch. I honestly don't know of any tournament (NAF or not) that's used the 2nd ed pitch. Darkson is correct ... GW or Fan run ... doesn't matter. No one has ever used a 2nd edition board for any tournament in NAF history as far as I know.
Galak
Fair enough, though the BB tourny pack (now 3 years old) does say that any GW board may be used - though I also have never seen a 2nd Ed board in use at a tourny. |
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arturin |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bloodb
Posted: Nov 02, 2008 - 08:09 AM
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Joined: Jun 30, 2008
Tudela, Spain
Posts: 43
Location: Tudela, Spain
Status: Offline
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jonluke wrote: ... but considering there are regular sales of NAF blocking dice at $40 on ebay (3 blacks are currently £26 - nearly $45) I was thinking there are people willing to pay a lot for quality items....
With the NAF membership we get 3 blocking dice for $10, so for most of the market you should reduce the price 4 times  . |
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bloodb
Posted: Nov 02, 2008 - 09:00 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3953
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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jonluke wrote: The price issue is the biggest worry, I'll do my best to keep the costs down and will have more accurate pricing once I've actually constructed a pitch or two. Having weighed the board I've already got (Acrylic rather than chemiwood) I reckon I could get the price to between £80 and £120, but considering there are regular sales of NAF blocking dice at $40 on ebay (3 blacks are currently £26 - nearly $45) I was thinking there are people willing to pay a lot for quality items.
It is not that these are "quality" items, they are out of print and otherwise unavailable by any other means.
Like I said, I undesratnd you need gto charge a reasonable price for your boards, but you cannot compare your boards to the black blocking dice. The dice are no longer available, the same is not true with your board. |
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jonluke |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bl
Posted: Nov 02, 2008 - 10:04 AM
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Joined: Oct 31, 2008
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White dice are regularly available at a fraction of the cost, it is only for colours that people fork out many figs.
I'm afraid I was incorrect on the tournament issue, though they do say that any board GW produce is ok, they specify later that it must be a 2nd Ed. board. So I shall endeavour to replicate those square sizes. |
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SBG |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bl
Posted: Nov 02, 2008 - 08:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Canada
Posts: 771
Location: Canada
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I might sound pretty diffeerent from everyone so far, but I'd be willing to pay the extra bucks for a custom-fitted pitch with my team names and some advertisements!
And about the second row of squares in the end zone: what about custom nameplates for the home teams, or even a few media members? We see plenty of photographers in the NFL endzones, it could be sribes and drawers for BB?
Just my two cents, but I'd definitely be interested Jonluke.
Fred |
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jonluke |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bl
Posted: Nov 03, 2008 - 04:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 31, 2008
Wales
Posts: 15
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I've talked to some people who know a little more about GW copyright policy and if the board was sold GW would probably not be concerned so long as it didnt affect their sales, however it is borderline and they might decide to notice it.
I've begun costing the first pitch (a very simple board with few "extra" details, just the necessary parts) and it's construction appears cheaper than anticipated, I'll keep you posted. |
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AK_Dave |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bl
Posted: Nov 03, 2008 - 01:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 102
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
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I guess a lot of this depends on what you plan to make each pitch out of, and how much effort you plan to put into automating the procedure.
You could go with blueboard/pinkboard dense foam insulation, and make a hotwire form that allows you to cut out entire sections of pitch complete with lines in one or two passes. More complicated would be a big cast-iron waffle press. You could go with a computer directed laser-etch tool and quality plywood, burning lines as you go. Remember to account for the thickness of lines when you measure square size. If you vary square size from standard, I suggest bumping to 40mm squares because other people already make and sell a custom rangeruler for that gauge pitch.
For the money you're talking, I'd like to see a single pitch that is usable for Bloodbowl, Sevens, and maybe even Beachball. Simply adding a couple extra sets of lines in different colors does that. As does modularity. |
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NAF # 8106
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jonluke |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bl
Posted: Nov 04, 2008 - 12:30 AM
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Joined: Oct 31, 2008
Wales
Posts: 15
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The method I'm proposing is to pour-cast high detail resin into a silicon mold, the resin will have a material (as yet unspecified) within it, much like reinforced concrete with steel. This material will prevent warping of the board and will keep the cost of the resin to a minimum.
Currently the board was going to be 3 slot together sections, with relief crosses marking the squares (so flock or custom built paving slabs or wooden sections could be easily applied in between) and relief writing for sponsors and pitch markings.
- As for the moduler suggestion to make the pitches usable for multiple games - sounds like a great idea, I'll do some research and see if it's possible.
- 40mm squares woiuld dramatically increase the board size and therefore the cost.
Cheers for the suggestions. |
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AK_Dave |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bl
Posted: Nov 04, 2008 - 10:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 29, 2005
Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 102
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Status: Offline
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| Okay, now I understand the cost. You're contemplating the production of a Bloodbowl equivilant of Dwarven Forge. |
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NAF # 8106
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Rabid_Bogscum |
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Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Fantasy Football Pitches suitable for Bloodbowl
Posted: Nov 05, 2008 - 02:34 AM
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Joined: Sep 23, 2004
Australia
Posts: 255
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
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| i would consider one based on some finished ideas... |
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