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Rules Questions - Stat Mods and Limits

Dragoonkin - Feb 22, 2003 - 02:30 PM
Post subject: Stat Mods and Limits

Never seen this one come up before, so...does anyone know if you gain say +2MA from skills, then lose 1MA from an injury, can you now gain another +1MA, to still only be limited to 2 over the starting value? Or is it a global 2MA gain possible, irregardless of injuries?

longfang - Feb 22, 2003 - 02:32 PM
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No. Post a serious question please. Wink

Dragoonkin - Feb 22, 2003 - 02:34 PM
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Is there any real wording on this in the rulebook? Because I really don't know off the top of my head, and I've read that book more than once.

longfang - Feb 22, 2003 - 02:38 PM
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The answers still gonna be No

Grumbledook - Feb 22, 2003 - 04:03 PM
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its the moving avatar thread!

i would say that your not allowed to cause your not allowed +ma +ma and vll, losing ma as well wouldn't make a difference. Dunno what the official answer is

Apedog - Feb 22, 2003 - 04:45 PM
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That still doesn't really answer the question, just extends it to:

If I have +ma +ma and -ma can I take vll trait?

All the rulebook says as far as I can see is that no player may increase a characteristic by more than 2 points.

Common sense on the other hand dictates that no a third increase of a characteristic should not be allowed but currently that's not what the rules say.

liviath - Feb 22, 2003 - 04:57 PM
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I've always just taken it to mean that the total modifiers couldn't get it 2 higher or 2 lower than the starting value. If you got +2 MV and then was injured for -1 MV, then you are eligible to get a +1 MV again if you wanted to. If you had +2 MV and then picked up very long legs, you still would only have +2 MV but now you have +1 to intercept. If this same player gets injured for -1 MV, his VLL bonus would then come into play to keep him at +2 MV.

Dragoonkin - Feb 22, 2003 - 05:34 PM
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I don't think it's a totally unfair situation to say that yes you can regain that point again, as you're still only two above your maximum, I'd play it the same way on the flip side...you can get two -1MA injuries, gain back one of those with a skill, then lose it again from another injury.

It's really not a "rules-lawyering/common-sense" issue, I was only curious if it said anything about that specific situation.

skummy - Feb 23, 2003 - 10:56 AM
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Actually, I asked this question about a gutter runner over on talkbloodbowl.com, and the genral consensus was that you could give him more movement. I'll find a link to it when the site goes back up.

snew - Feb 24, 2003 - 08:52 AM
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Yeah, right. Like that's going to happen anytime soon.

spindex - Feb 25, 2003 - 01:30 AM
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I'd agree. I think the rule is intended to be no more then 2 +/- to any given stat.

Lloyd - Feb 25, 2003 - 06:57 AM
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Yes you can because the limitation is based on the maximium value for the characteristic not the number of times it is rolled.

An interesting cruel aspect of the rules however is if you don't roll a double on a third movement increase or you roll a third agility increase and your already maxed out in that particular characteristic you lose the increase completely.

skummy - Feb 25, 2003 - 07:25 AM
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Lloyd: The most recent rules review stated that you could take a skill instead of a stat increase if you so desire.

Now that TBB is up, I also found the previous thread on this, where Milo gave his unoffical approval.

http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3791&highlight=

KarlLindemann - Feb 27, 2003 - 05:34 PM
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If you can roll two stat increases in one stat and loose one and then gain one again, then i say that if u roll that good you dont need good stats!

Indigo - Feb 28, 2003 - 03:16 AM
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The rules clearly state (LRB pg 40) that "no characteristic may ever be increased by more than 2 points over it's starting value".

Since +ma, +ma, -ma, +ma is still NOT more than 2 points over the starting value, then it is allowed. No matter how you look at it, a catcher with a move of 10 is legal. Nowhere does it say that stat losses can't be recovered, or stat increases lost.

Fluff wise, think of it as an injured player trying hard to regain past fitness. Statistically, it's unlikely, but if he tries real hard...

SBG - Feb 28, 2003 - 09:49 AM
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And just to add my two cents...

STATS and SKILLS/TRAITS are two different things. If a Gutter Runner is lucky enough to get +1 MA, +1 MA and then roll a double and pick VLL, I won't complain. I'll foul him, but I won't complain ! Wink

Fred

Indigo - Mar 03, 2003 - 04:21 AM
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hmm I think there is an official ruling somewhere that skills and traits can't be used to increase movement etc.

I'll have a look for it and post a link here.

skummy - Mar 03, 2003 - 08:24 AM
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I think there was a ruling to that effect, but it was a 3rd edition ruling. Galak's hotlist http://www.blood-bowl.net/BBRC_HotList.html has the BRCC ruling that a Gutter Runner cannot get +3 movement with two movement increases and Long Legs.