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Rules Questions - The Compleat Throw Team Mate question list
pfooti - Jan 21, 2004 - 11:47 AM
Post subject: The Compleat Throw Team Mate question list
Note: this is also posted over on TBB.
Okay, our league has two goblin teams in it this season, and I'm starting to wonder about how TTM works. I'm fine on most of the normal outcomes, and have seen arguments (unsettled, I think) in other threads about less likely outcomes (toss into the crowd, fumble). So here I've gathered up all the possible outcomes that I can think of. For the example, I'm going to use a Troll, because some of the questions I have stem from always hungry.
All page references are to the LRB2.0, and the ??? ones are judgments I seem to remember from the boards, but are unclear.
Declare Troll's pass action.
Succeed at RS roll. (Failure: action stops, not a turnover)
Always Hungry outcomes:
2+: success, continue
1, 1: stunty eaten, not a turnover unless stunty was ballcarrier (???)
1, 2+: stunty squirms free, place prone in random (d8) square. Roll armor, not a turnover unless stunty was ballcarrier. (LRB, 26)
If the stunty squirms free and lands on another player, that player is also knocked down and pushed back. Who chooses the pushback, and what happens to chained pushbacks??? Since the rules don't state otherwise, you need to roll armor for this player as well. If this player is on the moving team, this is a turnover (LRB, 8).
Pass Roll outcomes:
Accurate: Success, continue!
Inaccurate: kind of success, scatter stunty 3d8 as if he were an inaccurately thrown ball. If this results in him hitting a player, the other player is knocked down and pushed back in a random direction (LRB, 23). If the hit player is on the moving team, this is a turnover. If the stunty is a ballcarrier, this is a turnover. If the stunty was not a ballcarrier, it might be a turnover. The LRB, on p23 says that a failed landing roll isn't a turnover, not a failed landing. This distinction is important, and the meat of argument in other threads. If the stunty ends up out of bounds, he suffers a potential crowd injury. If the stunty was a ballcarrier, the ball gets crowd-tossed, but it is unclear if this is a turnover, since neither crowd injuries nor loss of ball are listed as turnover events on page 8.
Fumble: The stunty falls over in his starting square. Roll armor, if he was a ballcarrier, scatter ball, turnover. If he isn't a ballcarrier, the same argument about hitting another player holds. The stunty failed to land, so this might not be a turnover, depending on how you interpret the "failed landing roll" rule (letter or spirit).
Landing Roll:
Add +1 to the roll if the pass was accurate.
Success[b]: The poor blighter made it, against all odds.
[b]Failure: Nope. He fell over in his landing square. Roll armor. This is not a turnover unless he had the ball, in which case the ball also scatters.
Okay, so the big questions are:
1: If a squirmed out, almost eaten goblin hits another player, how do you decide where that second player gets pushed to?
2: If a goblin without the ball is eaten, is it a turnover?
3: If a goblin without the ball fails to land for some reason other than failing the landing roll (going out of bounds, fumbled, hit opponent), is it a turnover?
Okay, that's it. TTM is pretty dang hard to work all the niggles out of, and it is fairly silly that I had to refer to three sections of the LRB to figure out what I managed to put together.
Mordredd - Jan 22, 2004 - 04:03 AM
Post subject:
1: is easy. You treat it like the Goblin had just been pushed back into the player, and the coach whose Troll just dropped the little guy gets to pick where that player gets pushed to. Just like a normal push back chain.
2: I think the statement about it not being a turnover unless the thrown player has the ball is meant to apply to the whole failure of always hungry, not just the cases where the player escapes being eaten. So IMO not a turnover.
3: I think a fumble is a turnover, otherwise see rules review below.
Quote:
Q: If a player is thrown using the Throw Team Mate trait, but does not have the ball. Is it a turnover if:
a) The thrown player lands out of bounds?
b) The thrown player lands in the same square as an opponent?
c) The thrown player lands in the same square as a teammate?
A: a) No turnover, roll for injury and continue the turn.
b) No turnover, roll for Armour (and injury if necessary) on both players and continue the turn. Note that this situation cannot be specifically aimed for. This can only arise if the player scatters to an opponents square.
c) Turnover. Both players require an Armour roll (and injury if necessary).
Note that it is a turnover in all three cases if the thrown player is carrying the ball.
pfooti - Jan 22, 2004 - 10:52 AM
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Ah, I missed that last question in the latest RR. I'm a little weirded out by the fact that the troll's coach gets to decide how the pushback chain works out, since it is his player being pushed over. But other than that, the rules review settles all the other questions.
Doomfrog - Jan 23, 2004 - 08:54 PM
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for TTM.. are fumbels normal worked out after modified or before? I know some places have house rules one way or another but.. whats the standard rule?
Zombie - Jan 23, 2004 - 10:39 PM
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Same as for passing the ball. It's a fumble if you roll a 1 before or after modification.