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Rules Questions - tree troubles
Dave - Jan 27, 2005 - 11:46 AM
Post subject: tree troubles
new take root.
if the tree was rooted and goes down, it's not rooted anymore is he ..
and what if ..
he's down, takes root and doesnt'manage to get back up again at first but does later .. I assume he can get up (4+ roll) but is he then rooted ?
Darkson - Jan 27, 2005 - 12:55 PM
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Yes
and
Yes
Dave - Jan 27, 2005 - 02:03 PM
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wohoo
Doubleskulls - Jan 27, 2005 - 03:45 PM
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The wording strikes me as a bit odd - but I guess it prevents cheesy Piling On/Diving Tackle exploits.
Babs - Jan 27, 2005 - 08:48 PM
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Just because a Tree's knocked over doesn't mean it's uprooted completely. Look at _any_ tree removal. The Stump is the hardest bit to get out, even when the tree's been knocked down There's your fluff reason.
But really, would a tree 'take root' on an Astrogranite turf? In the Dungeonbowl? At the end of the day it's a game mechanic - and one I'm pleased to see in the game.
Dave - Jan 28, 2005 - 12:53 AM
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so am I .. so am I ..
it's pretty d@mn annoying and that's good ..
we just had both these situations in a match and we were not sure .. I am now though 
Tojurub - Jan 28, 2005 - 01:56 AM
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let me see if I got that right:
if a tree is down and in the next turn he tries to get up:
- a) he has to roll TR before he tries to get up
- b) he fails take root, but he's still allowed to roll to see if he gets up
- c1) if he makes the 4+ roll, he's standing, but he took root
- c2) he fails to get up, but in case he does in any of the following turns, then he is automatically rooted, but he doesn't have to do the TR-roll anymore, since he failed it that one time.
now assume the following: he's down, fails the take root roll AND the getting-up roll. Now some really mean opponents foul him, he's stunned....is he still rooted?
slup - Jan 28, 2005 - 05:15 AM
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He is rooted until someone knocks him over.
A foul doesn't knock someone over so he is still rooted.
squighunter - Apr 28, 2006 - 12:17 PM
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Continued questions:
I do not have the rule book with me at the moment, but I will venture to recall the wording. Take Root drops the model's movement to "0" (which I undertsand is the reason why the Treeman can still stand up after taking root on the ground, because of the movement clause allowing a 4+ to get up when your movement is "less than three"). Can it be argued that "going for it" is still possible as you are technically not using your movement value when you do so?
Further, can a rooted but knocked down treeman Blitz by rolling a going for it against an opponent in the square next to him?
Bevan - Apr 28, 2006 - 04:00 PM
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LRB v4.0 page 26
"A player that has taken root may not Go For It, be pushed back for any reason, or use any skill that would allow him to move out of his current square. The player may block adjacent players without following-up."
Neither the player nor the opponent can do anything to make the Treeman move out of that square, but any action that does not require leaving the square is permitted if it is within the normal rules.
However, the rule about standing up, on p12, says that if a player with MA less than 3 successfully rolls 4+ to stand up, they must Go Fo It to move any further squares. Since a Blitz requires one square of movement a Treeman standing up to Blitz must Go For It (even if not following up). But the rule above says a Taken Root Treeman may not Go For It and therefore cannot Blitz on the turn used to stand up.
Primesupreme - Apr 28, 2006 - 06:09 PM
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That is a pretty bad rule that you can take root while on your back. But according to my copy of the LRB it says any action so while I don't agree with it that would include trying to get up.
Darkson - Apr 28, 2006 - 08:10 PM
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Orges can go Bonehead, Trolls go really stupid, minos and rat ogres can go "wild" (or more correctly, throw a tantrum) and vamps can get a little peckish, all while lying on their backs.
Why should trees be any different?
Primesupreme - Apr 29, 2006 - 02:35 AM
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touche'
I guess playing Dark Elves I never really payed attention to the Big Guys...not like I can use them
HiredGoon - May 12, 2006 - 09:17 AM
Post subject: take root, frenzy & jump up
just had this random thought concerning treemen... there's a special play card we're using that lets you give a player the Frenzy & Jump Up skills for one game (I think it's called cup o' joe or something like that).
Now, Jump Up allows a player to stand as a free action for no MP loss.... but what if the Treeman had taken root? what about the normal need to roll a 4+ for having less than 3 MP?
& as for Frenzy, I'd assume that it would be nullified by the take root, but I'd just like to check & make sure. Also, if I throw a block, don't take root, & push the opponent, would I make a second take root check for the frenzied block?
Bevan - May 13, 2006 - 03:34 AM
Post subject: Re: take root, frenzy & jump up
HiredGoon wrote:
just had this random thought concerning treemen... there's a special play card we're using that lets you give a player the Frenzy & Jump Up skills for one game (I think it's called cup o' joe or something like that).
Now, Jump Up allows a player to stand as a free action for no MP loss.... but what if the Treeman had taken root? what about the normal need to roll a 4+ for having less than 3 MP?
& as for Frenzy, I'd assume that it would be nullified by the take root, but I'd just like to check & make sure. Also, if I throw a block, don't take root, & push the opponent, would I make a second take root check for the frenzied block?
A treeman with Jump Up would not have to roll to stand up. Unfortunately they cannot normally take this trait even using doubles, 
but your special play/ handicap card would allow it. 
A treeman that had taken root could not use Frenzy except against an opponent with Stand Firm and who chose to use it, since this would allow the Treeman to make a second Frenzied block without leaving the original square. 
You roll for Take Root before taking an action and the second block is part of the original block/blitz action, so no extra Take Root is required for the second frenzied Block. 