NAF World Headquarters
Rules Questions - Handing Off oops, Handing Off oops... etc, etc..
SuM - Jul 08, 2005 - 11:54 AM
Post subject: Handing Off oops, Handing Off oops... etc, etc..
Riddle me this Batman.
By the LRB - 
Let say Player A hands off to Player B, he fails his roll.
The ball scatters, into Player C, he also fails his catch roll.
Again it scatters again into the other team's Player D.
He fails his catch, and it scatters back to Player C.
A to B, B to C, C to D, then for the good the D back to C. 
The driving team still has possession, the ball has not hit the ground, is it a Turnover?
dmchale - Jul 08, 2005 - 01:05 PM
Post subject:
no it is not. since as it quite plainly says in the rule, as long as the ball comes to rest in the hands of a member of the moving team it isnt a TO.
Melifaxis - Jul 08, 2005 - 02:17 PM
Post subject:
Yup, not a turnover
Xeterog - Jul 08, 2005 - 07:44 PM
Post subject:
In your diagram, lets say that A and C are next to the sideline, so that when the ball scatters to D, it goes out of bounds. The crowd would then throw the ball back onto the field. As long as the ball ends up in the hands of one of your players, there is still no turnover!
KarlLagerbottom - Jul 09, 2005 - 05:35 AM
Post subject:
Yep...unless you're playing with Female High-Elves at the North Pole. Then it IS a Turnover! 
-Rob
Spazzfist - Jul 09, 2005 - 07:45 AM
Post subject:
Yeah, I believe the same also works for picking up the ball. If A had attempted and it went throught the described cycle, as long as a player from the moving team ends up with the ball before it hits the ground it is not a turn over.
Unless you're from Philly. Then you just concede the match. 
Spazz
SuM - Jul 09, 2005 - 08:31 AM
Post subject:
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
Yep...unless you're playing with Female High-Elves at the North Pole. Then it IS a Turnover!
-Rob
Well then I guess it is a turnover for my team. I play High Elves from the North Pole. LOL!!!
I get to play the River Raiders tonight. Female High Elves versus Female Pro Elves, gonna be a seriousl Passing Game! I just hope, I bust through that AV 7, "Kmart Blue Light Special Armor".
The Raiders have had problems with the Injury Report and players dying. 12 Pro Elves versus my Healthy 14 High Elves.
http://www.bampf.com/store/bloodbowl3/roster.asp?id=35
vs.
http://www.bampf.com/store/bloodbowl3/roster.asp?id=2
KarlLagerbottom - Jul 09, 2005 - 08:34 AM
Post subject:
SuM wrote:
I get to play the River Raiders tonight. Female High Elves versus Female Pro Elves, gonna be a seriousl Passing Game! I just hope, I bust through that AV 7,
"Kmart Blue Light Special Armor".
The Raiders have had problems with the Injury Report and players dying. 12 Pro Elves versus my Healthy 14 High Elves.
http://www.bampf.com/store/bloodbowl3/roster.asp?id=35
vs.
http://www.bampf.com/store/bloodbowl3/roster.asp?id=2
Yes...but both should fear
http://www.bampf.com/store/bloodbowl3/player.asp?id=421
SuM - Jul 09, 2005 - 11:37 AM
Post subject:
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
SuM wrote:
I get to play the River Raiders tonight. Female High Elves versus Female Pro Elves, gonna be a seriousl Passing Game! I just hope, I bust through that AV 7,
"Kmart Blue Light Special Armor".
The Raiders have had problems with the Injury Report and players dying. 12 Pro Elves versus my Healthy 14 High Elves.
http://www.bampf.com/store/bloodbowl3/roster.asp?id=35
vs.
http://www.bampf.com/store/bloodbowl3/roster.asp?id=2
Yes...but both should fear
http://www.bampf.com/store/bloodbowl3/player.asp?id=421
I have played against that Big Sirloin Steak of a Player.
Remember, he intercepted one of my Beautiful Elven Passes?
I meant say I play him tomorrow, Sunday.
Paul - Jul 09, 2005 - 02:53 PM
Post subject:
Spazzfist wrote:
Yeah, I believe the same also works for picking up the ball. If A had attempted and it went throught the described cycle, as long as a player from the moving team ends up with the ball before it hits the ground it is not a turn over.
actually, it is a turn over. According to LRB4 page 9 it says...
Quote:
the D6 roll is less than the required total, then
the player drops the ball, which will scatter one square. If the
player drops the ball then his team suffers a turnover and their
team turn ends immediately.
Unless of course, somewheres else in the book says otherwise, which could be possible.
A pass, that is not caught by the target, but scatters to a teammate (in the example above) and is caught, then it is not a turnover.
Darkson - Jul 09, 2005 - 03:50 PM
Post subject:
A failed pick up is always a Turnover, regardless of where the ball ends up (unles it ends up in the hands of one of your players who is in the EZ - then it's a TD before the Turnover).
Spazzfist - Jul 09, 2005 - 08:10 PM
Post subject:
I still disagree. The hard and fast rule is that a turnover is when the ball or a player hits the dirt. I will look into it more tomorrow, but perhaps somebody more geeky than myself (i.e. who has memorized the rulebook) can help me out on this one!
Spazz
snew - Jul 09, 2005 - 08:35 PM
Post subject:
LRB wrote:
1. A team is called for illegal procedure and
doesn???t have a re-roll counter or
2. A player on the moving team is knocked
down or falls over or
3. The ball is passed and comes to rest without
being caught by any member of the moving team or
4. A player from the moving team attempts to
pick up the ball and fails or
5. A touchdown is scored or
6. The four minute time limit for the turn runs out.
It's not a pass and it's not a pickup.
And for the record, on a pass, it doesn't matter how many times the ball hits the ground and bounces. The only things that matter are where it finally ends up. Like it was previously mentioned, even the crowd has no effect on it.
Xeterog - Jul 09, 2005 - 08:57 PM
Post subject:
Spazzfist wrote:
I still disagree. The hard and fast rule is that a turnover is when the ball or a player hits the dirt.
Spazz
Nope on both accounts.
A player could 'hit the dirt' in several ways without causing a turnover...a thrown player that fails the landing rol for example (it's only a turnover if the said player had the ball..heck, if the player had not moved yet, he could still take an action), diving tackle, etc.
a failed catch roll is never a turnover. It often leads to events which do cause a turnover, but failing the catch roll is not the cause of the turnover.
a failed pick up roll is always a turnover..even if someone on your team gets the ball.
Note that a catch roll is not a pick up roll..you catch the ball when the ball moves into the square of a player. You make a pick up roll whenever a player moves into a square that contains the ball.
KarlLagerbottom - Jul 10, 2005 - 07:14 AM
Post subject:
Gortex wrote:
Note that a catch roll is not a pick up roll..you catch the ball when the ball moves into the square of a player. You make a pick up roll whenever a player moves into a square that contains the ball.
Does that mean if player #1 doesn't catch the ball and it scatters into a square with a player with Catch...Player #2 can use the Catch skill reroll to "catch" the failed/scattered ball?
-Rob
Graf_Arnhelm - Jul 10, 2005 - 07:31 AM
Post subject:
I think Catch may be used.
LRB4, pg 14 about Bouncing Balls: "...the player in the square must attempt to catch it, as described above..."
And the rules above (Catching the Football) imply that you can use Catch, hence Catch being allowed on scattered/bouncing balls.
But don't take my word on it.
Doubleskulls - Jul 10, 2005 - 08:03 AM
Post subject:
Spazzfist wrote:
I still disagree. The hard and fast rule is that a turnover is when the ball or a player hits the dirt. I will look into it more tomorrow, but perhaps somebody more geeky than myself (i.e. who has memorized the rulebook) can help me out on this one!
If they can, they are playing it wrong. A failed pickup is always a turnover regardless of where the ball ends up.
A failed catch is not, in itself, a turnover - its the loss of possession that's a turnover.
SuM - Jul 12, 2005 - 08:14 AM
Post subject: Re: Handing Off oops, Handing Off oops... etc, etc..
So the concensus is what?
Is it a turnover??
Spazzfist - Jul 12, 2005 - 08:48 AM
Post subject:
No. What you described with the hand off is not a turnover.
I was wrong (after being so thoroughly corrected) about the pick up roll. My bad.
Graf_Arnhelm - Jul 12, 2005 - 09:09 AM
Post subject:
And I must have been right with Catch, as even Ian didn't contradict me 
Darkson - Jul 12, 2005 - 09:47 AM
Post subject:
If you fail a pick-up, it's a Turnover, regardless of where the ball ends up.
If you fail a Catch roll, it's a Turnover unless the ball ends up in the possesion of one of your players.
Mordredd - Jul 12, 2005 - 10:29 AM
Post subject:
Darkson wrote:
If you fail a Catch roll, it's a Turnover unless the ball ends up in the possesion of one of your players.
If you fail to catch a pass or hand off. Failing to catch the ball after is has been dropped by a player that you blocked or after you pushed a player onto the ball is not.
SuM - Jul 12, 2005 - 11:02 AM
Post subject:
When the ball scatters on the ground it is a Turnover, I know that.
- but -
A bobbled ball that is handed off is still catchable.
Now, over the weekend I played against one of our League Players, <cough-cough Bamph our commish- cough-cough>, he said the Hand Off not caught is a Failed Action.
I beg the differ.
Pages 8, 14, and 20 are the paragraphs that cover this.
We need to get Bamph into this discussion.
OT - Extended my account again, "Now them sweet Blue Block dice will be mine, yes they will be mine."
snew - Jul 12, 2005 - 01:47 PM
Post subject:
SuM wrote:
When the ball scatters on the ground it is a Turnover, I know that.
Just to be clear, a bobbled ball that comes to rest on the ground is a turnover. Just hitting the ground doesn't necessarily make it a turnover. It can bounce to another of your players (or even the same one) and if caught play will continue if it was initially a Pass or a Handoff. If it was a pick-up, though, it would indeed be a turnover.
Doubleskulls - Jul 12, 2005 - 04:29 PM
Post subject:
What snots said.
If the ball goes into the crowd, gets thrown in, lands in an empty square and bounces into the hands of one your players it is not a turnover.
Whatever happens - you only turnover if once the ball has stopped moving and none of your players are holding it.
Spazzfist - Jul 12, 2005 - 05:37 PM
Post subject:
snotsngrots wrote:
SuM wrote:
When the ball scatters on the ground it is a Turnover, I know that.
Just to be clear, a bobbled ball that comes to rest on the ground is a turnover. Just hitting the ground doesn't necessarily make it a turnover. It can bounce to another of your players (or even the same one) and if caught play will continue if it was initially a Pass or a Handoff. If it was a pick-up, though, it would indeed be a turnover.
For clarity sake can you give an example of when the ball may bounce on the ground and then end up in the hands of a player?
Paul - Jul 12, 2005 - 06:46 PM
Post subject:
Spazz...
Doubleskulls wrote:
If the ball goes into the crowd, gets thrown in, lands in an empty square and bounces into the hands of one your players it is not a turnover.
right above you man.
Ok, just on another side note, I never really considered this until now, but say Player A on my team does not catch the ball thrown to him, it scatters to player B (my team or the opponents, doesn't matter.) Player B has the Catch skill, so, from what I've read here, he can use that to reroll his chance at getting the ball should he fail the first try.
Thanks
Xeterog - Jul 12, 2005 - 07:15 PM
Post subject:
yep..the catch skill can be used on bouncing/scattering balls...
Doubleskulls - Jul 12, 2005 - 07:59 PM
Post subject:
Basically you can use catch on any attempt to get the ball - other than a pickup.
Rakarth - Sep 02, 2005 - 05:13 AM
Post subject:
Yes, with the catch skill, you get to re-roll a failed catch roll. So if the ball comes into your players square, he may attempt to catch the ball with the re-roll.
Just to pre-empt the next question, you can use catch on an interception, as you are attempting to catch the ball in mid-flight.
slup - Sep 02, 2005 - 06:00 AM
Post subject:
Rakarth wrote:
Yes, with the catch skill, you get to re-roll a failed catch roll. So if the ball comes into your players square, he may attempt to catch the ball with the re-roll.
Just to pre-empt the next question, no you cant use catch on an interception, as you are not attempting to catch the ball, but stop the ball in flight, getting to the intended receiver. No re-roll for catch skill.
Wrong.
You may use catch to reroll an interception, read the skilldescription:
Quote:
A player who has the Catch skill is allowed to re-roll the D6 if he fails to catch the ball. It also allows the player to re-roll the D6 if he drops a hand-off or fails to make an interception.
Anthracis - Sep 02, 2005 - 06:00 AM
Post subject:
Rakarth wrote:
Yes, with the catch skill, you get to re-roll a failed catch roll. So if the ball comes into your players square, he may attempt to catch the ball with the re-roll.
Just to pre-empt the next question, no you cant use catch on an interception, as you are not attempting to catch the ball, but stop the ball in flight, getting to the intended receiver. No re-roll for catch skill.
According to the skill description in LRB 4.0 you can use catch on an interception:
Quote:
Catch (Agility Skill)
A player who has the Catch skill is allowed to re-roll the D6 if he fails to catch the ball. It also allows the player to re-roll the D6 if he drops a hand-off or fails to make an interception.
greets
Anthracis
Rakarth - Sep 02, 2005 - 06:46 AM
Post subject:
Yeah, sorry changed that after I double checked it, oops
SteelThunder - Sep 05, 2005 - 10:52 PM
Post subject:
Wow, what a lengthy topic. So looks like Blood Bowl honors the NFL's "holy roller" play...as long as the ball is moving and you still recover it, you're still in business.
Now obviously if you fail a pick-up roll, it IS a turnover, but the bouncing ball could still be caught by a nearby player, thus still allowing you to be in possession of the ball, but NOT able to move any more players.
I always try to have 1 or 2 players nearby when I attempt to pick up the ball just in case this would happen.
And SuM, you're elves still suck.