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Rules Questions - Is it a TD?
Rabid_Bogscum - Dec 12, 2005 - 02:39 PM
Post subject: Is it a TD?
Was playing a game over Fumbbl with some Ogres. Got a Blitz at the start of the second half and proceeded to fling a gobbo downfield who proceeded to run into the endzone where the ball was due to land. Following the Blitz the ball duely came down and my proud little greenskin caught the ball. Is it a TD? I would have thought yes. Now while Fumbbl couldnt handle it as such.. as far as the rules are concerned it is a TD isnt it? I mean you can be blocked into the endzone in another players turn and its a TD? Help me oh rules masters !!!!!
Paul - Dec 12, 2005 - 04:24 PM
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yea, thats a TD.
You pulled off a rare 0-turn TD there. Way to go.
Xeterog - Dec 12, 2005 - 05:00 PM
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Well, it isn't technically a TD until the opposing team moves their turn marker, 
Also, note that because you scored in your opponents turn, that your turn marker is advanced also, so, even tho you scored a 0-turn TD, it really takes a turn as you waste a turn celebrating or something>
alternat - Dec 13, 2005 - 03:50 AM
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but maybe, as long as I understand, FUMBBL system does not awarded you with the TD, either you don't have to ask... isn't it?
OldManDraco - Dec 13, 2005 - 04:15 AM
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TD! There can be no doubt about it! Wish I had one like that on my turn in my last match at Brassbowl! I could haven had 2nd place!
Doubleskulls - Dec 17, 2005 - 05:11 PM
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It ought to be a TD - with both teams losing a turn as Gortex outlined... if FUMMBL doesn't handle it then report it to Christer.
Darkson - Dec 17, 2005 - 09:56 PM
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From the "DifferencesFromBoardGameFAQ":
Code:
(9) LRB (2.0 - p16) states that players only score a touch down
when they end their action in the end zone. In the game you
score as soon as you enter the endzone (standing) with the ball.
I'd guess this "bug" was covered by this one (as you didn't have the ball when you entered the EZ).
Rune_Master - Dec 22, 2005 - 07:55 AM
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I don't believe it is "technically" a TD. The rules read that you must end your turn in the endzone to score a TD. But since you were kicking off, that blitz action occured outside of the normal turn progression. Now, if one of your opponents tripped and fell trying to blitz your gobbo, it would have then been your turn which you could have ended without moving and then the TD would have been scored. In a realtime based game, that probably would have been a TD, but in a turn-based game, I believe the fumbbl system had it right.
Shane - Dec 22, 2005 - 08:20 AM
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I agree with it not technically being a TD, but disagree with the reasoning.
LRB 4 updates your quoted section to clarify that a TD is scored at the end of ANY player's action, not just one of your player's actions. As the ball was still in the air at the end of the Gobbo's action (or else it would not have landed,) I would think the technically correct ruling would be for the Gobbo's opponent to move his turn marker, and he'd have an action before the TD would be scored. Effectively, the same situation occurs as in the Special Play card "Is it a TD?," where if a Blitzing player can push the Gobbo out of the End Zone or get him to drop the ball, play continues without a score.
Anyone see a flaw in my reasoning?
Shane Yeager, L.R.L. (Licenced Rules Lawyer)
Rune_Master - Dec 22, 2005 - 09:03 AM
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I agree that the gobbo would have to be in the endzone at the END of a turn. However, he wasn't, he was in the endzopne at the end of the kickoff, no turn marker had been moved. That, and I don't think the blitz counts as an action (yes/no?), so, if his opponent knocked him out of the endzone or caused a fumble on his first turn, it would not be a TD. Unless the gobbo managed to score later, of course.
Rune_Master - Dec 22, 2005 - 09:06 AM
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the blitz I was refering to was the blitz as a result of the kick off table...
Shane - Dec 22, 2005 - 11:35 AM
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Note that TDs are scored at the end of a player's Action, not the end of a Turn. So the non-gobbo team has only one player who can take an action before th gobbo scores during his opponent's turn. (I'd recommend the Blitz action if you don't want the gobbo scoring.) As soon as the first player has finished his action, you must check to see if a TD is scored. Technically, this happens a number of times equal to the number of players the active team has on the pitch. It's just that if a TD is scored, the turn ends immediately.
Make sense?
Shane Yeager, L.R.L. (Licenced Rules Lawyer)
Darkson - Dec 23, 2005 - 05:55 AM
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Incorrect. Scoring in an opponents turn does not mention the end of a players acton at all (p.16 of the LRB 4.0 pdf). So a Gobbo ends the Blitz result in the EZ with the ball, the players moves his counter to start the turn, and the gobbo scores.
Shane - Dec 23, 2005 - 08:41 AM
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In what way does the "Scoring in the Opponent's Turn" segment on pg 16 override the general rules of "Scoring Touchdowns" on the same page? The only clarification or rule change introduced in SitOT is the instruction to move the turn marker ahead. Beyond that, there is no indication of any other rules changes in SitOT, so the general rule should still stand.
Your arguement seems to parallell:
All mammals have fur. (TDs at end of an action.)
Dogs are mammals. (TDs in opponent's turn are TDs.)
All dogs have tails. (TDs in opponent's turn move thr turn marker.)
Dogs do not need to have fur. (TDs in opponent turn not at end of action)
I'll be away for Xmas for a few days, so forgive me for any slow follow-ups.
Shane Yeager, L.R.L. (Licenced Rules Lawyer)
Darkson - Dec 28, 2005 - 01:19 PM
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"Scoring Touchdowns" (ie End of an action) is a sub-header under "Winning the match", and corresponds to scoring in your turn. "Scoring in the Opponents Turn" is also a sub-heading under "Winning the Match", and corresponds to scoring in the opponents turn. The 2 sub-headings do not have a bearing on each other, as they point to differnet times in the game. Therefore, as "End of Action" is not listed in the "SitOT", it's not in force.
I wish Galak would post on this one, as I'm sure he can explain it more eloquently than I can, but that is the ruling and the intention of the rules.
Shane - Dec 28, 2005 - 09:15 PM
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Ah, so dogs are not mammals. 
While that's a reasonable explanation, this leaves room to wiggle an argument that the scoring team does not get to advance his score marker nor does play stop (as these are mentioned in ST exclusively.)
Horse hockey, right? Well...right, as we're trying in some way to simulate a fantasy football game and not find rules penumbrae to hide under. I agree the intent has to be for the game to stop immediately on times such as this. The big offender is Frenzy, which if you go by my "end of action only" phrasing, allows the Frenzy-er to push the Frenzy-ee straight through the end zone without a TD. This presses my "That Ain't Right" button (being sure such a play would be overturned on instant replay,) so the immediate score clause is needed.
I'd propose a touch-up to the SitOT wording to clear this up, like the redundant mention of the ball bouncing on throw-ins.
Otherwise, that dog sure looks like a mammal, after all...
Shane Yeager, L.R.L. (Licenced Rules Lawyer)
Darkson - Dec 29, 2005 - 01:43 AM
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Shane wrote:
While that's a reasonable explanation, this leaves room to wiggle an argument that the scoring team does not get to advance his score marker nor does play stop (as these are mentioned in ST exclusively.)
No, it's mentioned in "Sequence of Play" (p.8 ) and the FAQ's (p.63) as a "TD is a turnover", so no wriggling there.
Shane wrote:
The big offender is Frenzy, which if you go by my "end of action only" phrasing, allows the Frenzy-er to push the Frenzy-ee straight through the end zone without a TD.
I was sure Galak had addressed that issue in the FAQ, but it might have been for the PBBL rules. Frenzy is counted as two seperate Block actions, so if the player is standing with the ball in the EZ after the Block, it's a TD, and the 2nd Block is lost. Granted, not the best explanation, hence why a FAQ was required.