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Strategy and Tactics - Are the norse still the worst team in BB?
littlemute - Dec 20, 2005 - 09:37 AM
Post subject: Are the norse still the worst team in BB?
Just wondering if the nerfing of the upgradable big guy's that also nerfed the already hellishly weak norse team has been rectified at all in 4.0?
What the norse have are excellent but slow catchers and uh... I think that's it.
Rune_Master - Dec 20, 2005 - 09:43 AM
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also have Block on everyone to start, effective blitzers, and relatively inexpensive players and re-rolls
Rune_Master - Dec 20, 2005 - 10:08 AM
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ok, so Norse re-rolls aren't that inexpensive in the grand scheme...still, I wouldn't say they are the worst team. While fun to play, I'd vote for goblins or halflings, if by worst you mean their difficulty to effectively/consistantly win.
Paul - Dec 20, 2005 - 12:05 PM
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Yea Norse teams can be quite good, but their AV really kills them (sorry for the pun)
Every norse team I've ever seen played usually does well, but then they run into a Dwarf or Khemri team that just destroys them leaving them with 3 less players (usually the 3 best players are the ones who are left dead at the end of the game)
maxlongstreet - Dec 20, 2005 - 02:32 PM
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As someone who has been playing Norse all year, I can attest to the truth of the axiom that the Norse are fairly good in tournaments and at the start of a league, but suck badly for high TR league play. I managed to win our league with Norse, but it was a newbie league, and it still took an F-ing miracle--I'll probably never be so lucky again in this lifetime. By the end of the league, I was badly outclassed by every team I faced. I played a Chaos Dwarf team in our semis--my dirty players fouled about seven of his players out of the game, and I still should have lost. Other teams have caught up in the block department, and most teams are both faster AND better armored than you are.
GalakStarscraper - Dec 20, 2005 - 07:12 PM
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I had a solution for this with PBBL ... but couldn't get enough traction to make the change. MBBL is trying it out to see if it really is balanced as I thought it was ... maybe someday it will happen.
Galak
Rune_Master - Dec 21, 2005 - 07:58 AM
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...and that solution was...?
GalakStarscraper - Dec 21, 2005 - 08:09 AM
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Rune_Master wrote:
...and that solution was...?
[Race:Norse]
16;Lineman;50;6;3;3;7;Block;G
2;Thrower;70;6;3;3;7;Block, Pass;GP
2;Runner;90;7;3;3;7;Block, Dauntless;GA
2;Berserker;90;6;3;3;7;Block, Frenzy, Jump Up;GS
2;Ulfenwerener;120;7;4;2;8;Frenzy;GS
1;Werebear;130;4;5;2;8;LONER, Claws, Frenzy, Thick Skull, Wild Animal;S
Reroll=60
The coaches have played 32 games so far in the league with these changes for a record right now of: 12 wins/15 losses/5 ties which puts them dead center in the middle of the races for overall win %.
So they are not destroying opponents so far as was predicted they would by the opposition to the changes (team has taken more CAS than caused so far as a race in those 32 games).
The real test was that we hoped the bit of speed added and the bit of Strength added would give the team more viability in the higher TR ranges ... I'm waiting to see if that happens as the teams progress. But at least of the low TRs the team seems to be performing fine.
Galak
littlemute - Dec 21, 2005 - 07:58 PM
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Goblins and Halflings are "joke" teams.
It's hard to place the 'best' team in BB, Chaos Dwarfs, Skaven, Woodelves, Undead and Orks all have a shot at the top spot for various reasons, but I can't think of a team that comes even close to being as weak in a league situation as the norse among the 'serious' teams. I think the fact is that advancement helps the other teams more, where the norse stay very similar even with half the players with an extra skill.
The blitzers are slow and weak. Block is nice but jump up is just OK for a player with such a slow speed anyway. Frenzy is nerfed, and the obvious combo skill, piling on, is mega nerfed due to the abuse by the big guys.
I do agree their players are on the cheap side, yet having a full roster of norse mid-season is still near impossible to accomplish.
MagicDave - Dec 22, 2005 - 03:41 AM
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norse are great in a tourney. give a blitzer strip ball and he will rock. dont think at all they are the worst team 
Valen - Dec 22, 2005 - 05:26 AM
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Well if you look at the NAF rankings, ther are 10 races appear in the top 50. Then the races that appear the most are
1 Undead (
- Skaven (
3 Wood Elves (6)
4 Norse (5)
5 Chaos Dwarves (4)
- Lizards (4)
- Orcs (4)
- Dwarves (4)
- Necros (4)
10 Humans (1)
So they cant be all that bad surely?
Xtreme - Dec 22, 2005 - 03:02 PM
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Its not that they are bad at low TR. Its when the league starts to get into the higher TR levels where norse start to struggle.
Valen - Dec 22, 2005 - 03:23 PM
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Being the only BB player in the village I am limited to tornis, so I will back out of this discussion
stick_with_poo_on_the_end - Dec 23, 2005 - 04:00 AM
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Being quite new to Norse myself I have found them to be ???When they are good They are Very Very Good, but when they are Bad they are Orrid!!!???. All that block and frenzy can really hurt an opponent, but when they go wrong they go wrong very badly. Frenzy can leave you blitzers very open and out of position and with AV7 all across the board the go ???squish??? very easy! I can mirror the other comments that they struggle at higher TR. My team is now around the TR170 mark and wining games is not as easy as it once was especially against other bashy teams. But at low TR they can be devastating if used in the right hands. I have been on the receiving end a big Norse spanking when they annihilated my Chaos Dwarfs at tournie. In short, fantastic at low TR but hard work at high TR
maxlongstreet - Dec 23, 2005 - 02:12 PM
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What poo stick said.
KarlLagerbottom - Dec 23, 2005 - 02:37 PM
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littlemute wrote:
The blitzers are slow and weak. Block is nice but jump up is just OK for a player with such a slow speed anyway.
I disagree with this...I think that JumpUp for these guys is a bigger benefit than usual. Given that they are so slow (MA6) They don't have to waste half of their movement just to stand.
And by the way...I think that the real secret to the Norse Team is not to use the Blitzers as Blitzers...use your Linemen as Blitzers in most cases so that you can control the Blitzes. Use the "Blitzers" as moble assists. Get them guard as soon as you can and then rely on them to stand up and lend an assist right away. If they manage to escape injury on the block there will likely be an opponent in the next square so at the very least they can just get up and add value. Then again...if two are close by, you can get one up to assist and the other can stand and block.
These guys are fun. Their AV 7 seems like a big liablility at hight TR because they are initiating more hits than other AV7 teams, but if you use them right they should be fine. (Well...at least better than being billed as the "Worst Team")
-Rob