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Rules Questions - Catching a bouncing ball after a tackle

MichaelDonaghy - Jan 23, 2006 - 06:34 AM
Post subject: Catching a bouncing ball after a tackle

This may have been posted before but in a game i had yesterday i tackled the opposing ball carrier and it bounced into my square. i appempted to catch it but i failed (cheers norse thrower!) and it landed in an empty square. was this a turnover on my part? Question

thanks

Shane - Jan 23, 2006 - 07:00 AM
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No sir, not a turnover. Failed Catches are never turnivers (see pg 8 of the rulebook.) A Pass that ends up not being caught is a turnover, but that's not technically because the Catch was failed, if you get the distinction.

Shane Yeager, Licensed Rules Lawyer

Spazzfist - Jan 23, 2006 - 07:09 AM
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How is a failure to catch the ball not a failed catch? Personally, I do not see the distinction.

(But for the record I do agree with ther ruling that the norse thrower did not cause a turnover).

Spazz

Xeterog - Jan 23, 2006 - 07:57 AM
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Failure to catch the ball is a failed catch. However, it is never the cause of a turnover.
Failing to pick up the ball is a turnover.
Passing the ball an the ball not ending up in possesion of a player on your team is a turnover (which often results from a failed catch). (see page 14 on Turnovers).

Shane - Jan 23, 2006 - 11:32 AM
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GorTeX has it exactly right. The catch failed, but the reason for a turnover is the ball isn't caught. If the ball bounced to a friendly player who happened to catch it, the turn can continue, even with a failed catch roll.

See? Clear as day! Cool

Spazzfist - Jan 23, 2006 - 12:49 PM
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I understood the point already, what I did not understand was what you said here:

Shane wrote:

A Pass that ends up not being caught is a turnover, but that's not technically because the Catch was failed, if you get the distinction.

Not very clear for a lawyer! Wink

Paul - Jan 23, 2006 - 03:29 PM
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Spazz, let me try

Quote:

A Pass that ends up not being caught is a turnover, but that's not technically because the Catch was failed, if you get the distinction.

What he is trying to say is, if you declare a pass action, throw the ball, and it is not caught by a player on your team, its a turn over.

As for a bouncing ball, ie, I push your guy back onto the ball, or you drop it and it bounces to a player on my team. This is a catch roll, so, anything that would modify a catch roll (catch skill, extra arms) apply to this roll even if the ball isn't thrown (as it was in this case.) Failing a catch roll is not a turn over, so, if the ball is bouncing because a player was knocked over you do not cause a turn over if your team doesn't pick it up.

Hope that helps.

GalakStarscraper - Jan 23, 2006 - 04:12 PM
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The other side of Shane was trying to say.

A failed Catch roll is never by itself a turnover.

A pass that isn't caught is a turnover ... but the pass is the trigger for determining that a turnover possible event is happening NOT the catch.

Galak

Spazzfist - Jan 23, 2006 - 07:18 PM
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Let me be clear. I already knew the rules, and how it worked! Everyone seems to be trying to help me out (much thanks anyways) All I was saying is that Shane, as a self-proposed rules lawyer was not very clear. However......

GalakStarscraper wrote:

A pass that isn't caught is a turnover ... but the pass is the trigger for determining that a turnover possible event is happening NOT the catch.

DAMN! this takes the cake! Just a suggestion Galak, but you might try some punctuation in that sentence to help it make a lick of sense! Wink

I hope this is not some of the exact wording in the new LRB! Smile

Rune_Master - Jan 24, 2006 - 07:32 AM
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how about:

Whomever had possession of the ball when it was thrown before it ended up bouncing to an open square has suffered a turnover (the passing team whose catcher failed to catch the ball which caused it to bounce). You can't suffer a turnover if you never had possession or weren't making an action on your turn to move to and then pick up the ball (the Norse thrower didn't move to pick the ball up, he just tried to grab a bouncing ball and failed which caused it to bounce again).

I think this was the correct explanation...

Shane - Jan 24, 2006 - 08:21 AM
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I was trying to make a brief explanation of the apparent possible follow-up question, "But if a pass isn't caught it's a turnover! How can a failed catch NEVER be a turnover?" Who was confused?

Maybe there's a better breed of lawyer up there in Canada, if you expect perfect clarity from the profession that brought you, "The party of the the first part..." types of phrasing. Cool

MichaelDonaghy - Jan 24, 2006 - 10:12 AM
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cheers guys. i knew i shouldnt have gotten that turnover!
viva NAF!

Bevan - Jan 24, 2006 - 02:02 PM
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Rune_Master wrote:

No, the rules laywers would have a field day on that one. Evil or Very Mad

The ball never has to get to an empty square, it might be caught by an opponent first. Or the ball might have been thrown to an empty square so it does not need a "catcher" to fail to catch it to cause anything.

How about
If a player passes the ball and the team does not end in possession of the ball when it comes to rest, then the team suffers a turnover. Cool

Spazzfist - Jan 24, 2006 - 05:23 PM
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Bevan wrote:

How about If a player passes the ball and the team does not end in possession of the ball when it comes to rest, then the team suffers a turnover. Cool

Hurrah! Simple and to the point! Even I can understand that explanation! Very Happy

Igor_Tahavanale - Jan 27, 2006 - 04:15 AM
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Isn't that more or less what is says now? Are you using an old rulebook out of the box or the most recent LRB?

LRB P8 "a ball is passed and comes to rest without being caught by any member of the moving team"

As this is under a "list of turnovers" I don't see how it could be much clearer to be honest.