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House Rules - Diving Tackle

cossakking - Mar 26, 2003 - 01:57 AM
Post subject: Diving Tackle

Declare this skill before or after the dice roll? What if they have dodge?

Ratin_Mutants - Mar 26, 2003 - 03:35 AM
Post subject:

"The player may use this skill after an opposing player attempts to
Dodge out of his tackle zone. Place the player using this skill
prone in the square vacated by the dodging player, but do not
make an Armour or Injury roll for them. The opposing player must
then subtract -2 from his Dodge roll for leaving the player???s tackle
zone. If a player is attempting to leave the tackle zone of several
players that have the Diving Tackle skill, then only one of the
opposing players may make a diving tackle."

So BEFORE the dice is rolled. Which also seem the most fair.

Shortarse - Mar 26, 2003 - 06:01 AM
Post subject:

Before I believe

GalakStarscraper - Mar 26, 2003 - 07:16 AM
Post subject:

Ratin_Mutants wrote:

"The player may use this skill after an opposing player attempts to
Dodge out of his tackle zone. Place the player using this skill
prone in the square vacated by the dodging player, but do not
make an Armour or Injury roll for them. The opposing player must
then subtract -2 from his Dodge roll for leaving the player’s tackle
zone. If a player is attempting to leave the tackle zone of several
players that have the Diving Tackle skill, then only one of the
opposing players may make a diving tackle."

So BEFORE the dice is rolled. Which also seem the most fair.

Ratin .... sorry ... but the rules you posted contradict your statement.

"The player may use this skill after an opposing player attempts to
Dodge out of his tackle zone"

Diving Tackle is used after the 1st OR the 2nd Dodge roll is made (by 2nd I mean a rerolled Dodge if the first fails.)

cossakking, PLEASE do me a huge favor and don't double post your questions to two different forums. Its a great way for folks like me to have a spend a great deal of time trying to type two sets of responses.

Trust me ask it once under the rules questions and you'll get a response.

Galak

Ratin_Mutants - Mar 26, 2003 - 01:33 PM
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Ok.. I read as AFTER he says " I want to dodge!" You then place your player prone, and then the stinking elf says " DARN.. I´ll need to roll a 4+... This is a hard dodge."

GalakStarscraper - Mar 26, 2003 - 01:36 PM
Post subject:

Ratin_Mutants wrote:

Ok.. I read as AFTER he says " I want to dodge!" You then place your player prone, and then the stinking elf says " DARN.. I´ll need to roll a 4+... This is a hard dodge."

I thought as much ... in this case "attempt" = rolling dice.

Galak

Gattolardo - Mar 27, 2003 - 05:05 AM
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Hi all, sorry but I have to disagree..
First of all a let's look at the wording:
"The player may use this skill after an opposing player attempts to
Dodge out of his tackle zone" - Before rolling a dodge, a player MUST be moved to the "target" square, and this is "attempting" alot Smile

"The opposing player must
then subtract -2 from his Dodge roll", as it says ROLL, I mean the -2 is applied to the roll, not the RESULT.
Otherwise, you'd only use the skill for safe tackle:

Wimpy the elf needs a 3+ to dodge out of Bogbreath's DZ, he rolls a 5, so why should our hero use Diving Tackle, as it wouldn't have any effect at all?
On the other claw, if Wimpy rolled a 3, then the tackle is pretty much done, that is, unless Wimpy uses a reroll........... Wink

Cheers
Rob

GalakStarscraper - Mar 27, 2003 - 05:21 AM
Post subject:

Gattolardo wrote:

Hi all, sorry but I have to disagree..
First of all a let's look at the wording:

Better yet, let's look at page 15 of the LRB:

Quote:

Unless stated otherwise in the skill description you never have to use a skill just because the player’s got it, and you can choose to use a skill that affects a dice roll after rolling the dice.

Some skills are also used in the opponent’s team turn. In this case you may choose to use the skill after an opposing player carries out an action or moves a square.

Diving Tackle doesn't say anything about having to be declared before the dice roll which means that it can be declared after.

Also Gattorlardo argued that you would only use the skill for safe tackle. This is also untrue, for the following case which can easily occur with AG 4 players dodging:

Player rolls a 3 for the Dodge roll, you declare the Use of Diving Tackle, player now uses the Dodge skill to reroll the failure, player rolls a 6, player Dodges away safely and your Diving Tackle player is prone.

I explained this in detail on the Rules Question forum, but unfortunately cossakking posted his exact same question twice which means that all the information isn't in one spot.

No biggie. Page 15 makes it very clear that Diving Tackle can be declared after the player has rolled the dice for the Dodge roll.

Galak

Gattolardo - Mar 27, 2003 - 05:38 AM
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I got your point Galak, but then again the ruling states that you may choose to apply the modifiers after YOU roll, the dice, implying that it only applies to rolls YOU make..

But again, apart for the wording analisys, that I honestly hate, Smile

should this interpetation make the skill a little too umbalancing??
I mean, we here have a skill that AUTOMATICALLY (in the right circumstances) causes a turnover (without having to roll ANYTHING) unless the opponent has a reroll.......

(I originally agreed with the AFTER theory while reading the post, but then thought about it and realized the potentially umbalancing effect)....

Cheers
Rob

GalakStarscraper - Mar 27, 2003 - 06:37 AM
Post subject:

Gattolardo wrote:

I got your point Galak, but then again the ruling states that you may choose to apply the modifiers after YOU roll, the dice, implying that it only applies to rolls YOU make..

The 2nd part of the quote: "In this case you may choose to use the skill after an opposing player carries out an action or moves a square." means that you can wait for your opponent to roll before apply your skill (carrying out an action includes rolling the dice for it whether you want to believe that or not). So stressing the YOU from the first part of my post is irrevelent as the second part goes on to explain that its effectively you or your opponents dice rolls.

Quote:

Nope ... lots of leagues have been playing this way for almost 2 years now and no one has noticed an unbalancing effect using Diving Tackle this way (my two leagues (42 coaches in one; 65 coaches in the other) included). In fact, very few people take the skill even with it working this way other than Goblin and Halfling teams (and in my other league, Slann and Snotling teams).

So no its definitely not unbalanced when applied after the Dodge roll.

Also I just want to make it clear that I have zero questions on this one. I've had numerous discussions about Diving Tackle with multiple members of the BBRC over the last two years. Trust me guys; this one is not a question whether it is or it isn't after. Its clearly been ruled after on multiple occassions.

Galak

skummy - Mar 27, 2003 - 07:24 AM
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DT really isn't unbalanced after the roll. If it was changed to before the roll, it would become a lot less useful skill.

Gattolardo - Mar 27, 2003 - 07:57 AM
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I stand corrected and convinced Smile

(as I said, you confirmed what I initially believed) Wink

Cheers Again
Rob

BenArd - May 06, 2003 - 08:20 AM
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What about the scenario where a player attempts to dodge away and fails the initial dodge, then uses his dodge skill and makes it, only for the tackling player to then use diving tackle to cause him to fail?

although now i've written that down it probably sounds about right as i real life you would dodge away, allowing yourself a smirk at your greater agility only to then eat dirt when the tackler dives in and trips you up. so yeah it works

i'll shut up now Wink

Agentrock - May 06, 2003 - 09:36 AM
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BenArd wrote:

I'd say it still works in that case.