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Strategy and Tactics - Orc Tourney Set Up

Office_Clone - Jun 08, 2006 - 09:25 AM
Post subject: Orc Tourney Set Up

For a TR 100 tourney/league using an Orc team I was thinking:

4 BOB's
4 Blitzers
2 Lineorcs
1 Thrower

2 Rerolls
2 FF
1 Apothocary

Should I forgo the apotho and a FF infavor of a 3rd RR?

Also what two skills should I throw on my 2 guys to start?

-OC

Spazzfist - Jun 08, 2006 - 11:11 AM
Post subject: Re: Orc Tourney Set Up

Office_Clone wrote:

Should I forgo the apotho and a FF infavor of a 3rd RR?

Also what two skills should I throw on my 2 guys to start?

-OC

Definitely! Orcs are tough enough that you can rely on the armour to save them for the most part.

As for skills, block on two of the black orcs would be my way of thinking.

Doubleskulls - Jun 10, 2006 - 01:38 AM
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3rd reroll for sure. I like to swap a blitzer for 2 gobbos with that lineup.

KarlLagerbottom - Jun 10, 2006 - 09:11 AM
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Doubleskulls wrote:

3rd reroll for sure. I like to swap a blitzer for 2 gobbos with that lineup.

Or if you were going this route, you could drop a blitzer and 1 FF for a LineOrc and a Gobbo. This way you even have room for fouling should you need to.

Doubleskulls - Jun 10, 2006 - 07:02 PM
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There isn't any FF spare 3 RR, 1 FF, 7 BOBs & Blitzers, 1 Thrower, 2 gobbos, 2 goblins.

KarlLagerbottom - Jun 10, 2006 - 09:53 PM
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Doubleskulls wrote:

There isn't any FF spare 3 RR, 1 FF, 7 BOBs & Blitzers, 1 Thrower, 2 gobbos, 2 goblins.

I was trusting his math...as you can see, he has 2FF listed.

EDIT: Besides...that's either 4 goblins, or the Ork team has a new positional that if apparently free of charge. Wink

EDIT 2: Ahh...I see it now...I guess "gobbos" refers to Line Orcs.

Doubleskulls - Jun 11, 2006 - 12:02 AM
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doh, 2 Line & 2 gobbos

I think misunderstood that I'd already swapped the apoth & 1 FF for a 3rd reroll - then converted a blitzer into 2 goblins.

Joemanji - Jun 12, 2006 - 04:41 AM
Post subject: Re: Orc Tourney Set Up

Spazzfist wrote:

Office_Clone wrote:

Should I forgo the apotho and a FF infavor of a 3rd RR?

Also what two skills should I throw on my 2 guys to start?

-OC

Definitely! Orcs are tough enough that you can rely on the armour to save them for the most part.

As for skills, block on two of the black orcs would be my way of thinking.

Guard on Bobs is more effective IMO.

Heroic_Tackle - Jun 14, 2006 - 03:21 AM
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I was thinking about giving at least 2 x Guard to Blitzers and 2 x Block to Black Orcs. Blitzers support STR 3 players or the BOBs and the the BOBs with Block are still reliable Blocking machines.

Edit: If two skills then one Blitzer with Guard and one BOB with Block.

Doubleskulls - Jun 14, 2006 - 04:32 AM
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I think guarding BOBs can be really frustrating to play against and very useful on offence. I use guarding BOBs to provide assists for blitzers to hit (you've already got players with Block!)

KarlLagerbottom - Jun 14, 2006 - 09:21 AM
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Doubleskulls wrote:

I think guarding BOBs can be really frustrating to play against and very useful on offence. I use guarding BOBs to provide assists for blitzers to hit (you've already got players with Block!)

Yep...then you can go with Mighty Blow or Tackle on the Blitzer doing the block with the BOB's assist.

Not only that, but having guard on the STR4 guy makes it harder to eliminate the Guard.

-Rob

(Just my opinion...please no one get offended.)

stick_with_poo_on_the_end - Jun 14, 2006 - 12:02 PM
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I like

4 Bob
4 Blitzer
3 Line Orcs
Apoth (or reserve line orc if you prefer)
2 RR
FF 4

Yep I know 2 rerolls is risky, you could take sure hands on a blitzer if you wish. After that guard the big boys up. 4 guarding black orcs is a nightmare to face. Then maybe tackle on a blitzer?

Skarsnikk - Jun 21, 2006 - 04:23 PM
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Really depends on if it's a tournie or league team but i'd go with 4 blitzers, 2 black orcs, 2 throwers, 4 linemen, 2 re-roll and FF 6 if it's a league. If it's a tournie where you dont earn gate etc drop the FF and boost a lineman to a 3rd blackorc. The throwers come with sure hands so lessens the need for that extra re-roll, block on black orcs is always usefull.

Buggrit - Sep 01, 2006 - 06:04 AM
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My league team started off with 4BO 4Blitz 2LM & 1 Thrower, but I also took Ripper Bolgrot with his Chainsaw... then we switched to LR5 and he became obsolete. My advice for a league team is start with maximum BO & Blitzers and 2/3 linemen 1 thrower get as many re-rolls as you can at the start as the FF won't make much difference till later on in the league. My first purchases after starting were a troll, 2 gobbos and an apothacary. I'm now buying more rerolls at the higher price. I started off with 1 RR and have now bought 2 more. My team is listed on STARS as the Orclanta Wasps.

Brokje - Sep 07, 2006 - 08:45 AM
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IMO Block on a Thrower can be very handy as well. Always cool to see the blitz coming: 1-die after 2 gfi's: BOTH DOWN!

Harhar!

Greets!
M

Buggrit - Sep 16, 2006 - 04:54 AM
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Yup Block very handy on Throwers.
I've got a BOB with Jump Up, next skill I give him will be Wrestle because a lot of players in the league have Block and if 2 Block players get a both down result nothing happens. If you have wrestle you both go down but with no armour rolls. BUT hardly anybody else in the league has Jump Up so if that BOB gets hit with a BD & opponent has block I can wrestle him to the ground and then in my turn Jump Up that BOB and then foul the player that blocked him Smile

Happy Days

zee78729 - Dec 27, 2007 - 09:21 PM
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For a 100 tr tournament roster I like:

4 blitzers
3 BOBs
3 Line Orcs
1 Thrower
1 Goblin
3 rr's

With 12 players you do not need to worry about a ko or lucky casualty. Depth also helps to prevent being beaten by the only weakness orcs have in lack of speed and being outnumbered. Fan factor is not needed with 3 rr's and a strategy of 8 turn drives to limit kickoffs and crushing the opponents. The goblin can be used if you really need a score with the stunty and dodge. What ever skills you take with orcs can not go wrong. Block or guard on BOBs is great. Tackle for attacking catchers or war dancers is nice and I like frenzy just for the crowd pushes to help get numbers. One skill that should be considered is kick-off return for the thrower to add to the team speed and to help counter blitz's on the kickoff chart.

kjonesin - Dec 28, 2007 - 10:08 AM
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Orcs in a tourney environment typically aren't very strong, due to low starting skills. I've only ever seen neoliminal play Orcs well in a tourney, and both times I faced him I was able to beat him by attacking his thrower. In a tournament, I would definitely start with two throwers, they are your most vulnerable players and you need their sure hands skill so you can save rerolls for your blocks.

Also - if you play the 'standard' tight cage you'll find yourself overmatched against dwarves and khemri. Orcs play a very strong loose cage/running style. The idea is to get two players next to the ball carrier, and then surround that with a loose cage of tackle zones, tough to dodge through and it gives you options when you need to move the ball.

edit: for skills, take tackle on a blitzer and one with guard. or if you're going with one thrower take sure hands on one blitzer. but you will need that tackle.

Doubleskulls - Dec 28, 2007 - 04:03 PM
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lol PeteW won the BB GT with Orcs Smile

There are seven 200+ rankings with Orcs - including one from Canada where points are much harder to earn - ignore mine since most of my points were gained in Europe.

I think Orcs are much better at TV100 than TV110. The main reason is because they have access to good skills and cheap players.

My personal preference is for 4 BOBs, 3 Blitzers, 1 Thrower, 3 Line Orcs. I generally skill up the BOBs with Guard and one blitzer with frenzy or tackle. I never skill up the thrower who is really in the team for sure hands to protect against strip ball war dancers. Pippy (#1) likes the 12th man and I think swaps a BOB & Thrower for 3 line orcs.

The 4th BOB (vs 4th Blitzer) is really because the BOBs win games against other strength teams, which are more common than flair teams where the blitzers are more useful.

At 110 I tend to take the troll but then you've just made a very reliable team have a key unreliable piece so I think you need to be a bit luckier then - and other teams benefit more from that extra 100k.

kjonesin - Dec 28, 2007 - 06:36 PM
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I see alot of dwarves in tourneys... Orcs in a tourney environment are dead meat against dwarves, or even chaos dwarves. Wood elves give them trouble as well, but I think that's strictly due to speed and the prevalence of the tight cage which is a little weak against a strong Elf coach (or a lucky one with wardancers)

Cramy - Dec 28, 2007 - 09:59 PM
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I have to agree with DoubleSkulls here. A well coached Orc team at TV100 is very good. They can beat Dwarves, and I have seen them beat Dwarves many times. And if they play the clock right, they can beat the flair teams as well. Remember that flair team can't score if they never have the ball except for the one start of half where they receive.

Doubleskulls - Dec 29, 2007 - 02:49 AM
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Orc stats - http://www.irwilliams.com/naf/total_for_all_competitions.html#Orc. Very much mid-table which sort of supports your POV but probably not quite as strongly as you are making it. Dwarves I generally dislike playing, but I'd say the only team I really worry about are Undead (which is pretty common!). I doubt I'd enjoy playing zons either, but I can't recollect a match up against them. Woodies I generally don't mind, unless the b*gg&s get lucky!

One key thing to bear in mind is that Orcs play about 1/4 of all NAF games - they are by far the most popular. So they probably have more than the normal amount of new & average coaches since the more unusual races tend to attract more experienced players.

kjonesin - Dec 29, 2007 - 01:53 PM
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You're right in saying that Orcs attract lots of new/average coaches, that's a trend that is very noticeable. That's why you see the tight cage very often, which isn't all that strong. Neoliminal played an exceptional loose cage against my CD's back in 2003, but with equal movement, lots of block and a couple guards I was able to counter most of his moves. The absolute key to the game was knocking out his thrower early. He then gakked my centaur, but it didn't matter much because he couldn't pick up the ball! Good Orc coaches are a pretty frightening thing, but in a short tournament I think they lack the skills to be truly dominant. And in a tournament where you stand a good chance of playing 2 or more games against dwarves I think they are a weak choice, but then again everyone has troubles against dwarves. Stupid dwarves...

Doubleskulls - Dec 29, 2007 - 11:27 PM
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Back in 2003 CDs were a team to be feared at tournament play, and IIRC, were #1 for a while. The reroll price hike in the 2004 Rules Review brought them down to much more normal tier 1 levels (C:\keeper\java\NAF Results\html\by_date.html).

My figure above was wrong, Orcs are only 1/8 of all games played, but they are the only team with more than 10%. Skaven, Dwarves, Wood Elves, Undead, Norse all have 7.5% or above.

kjonesin - Dec 30, 2007 - 09:34 AM
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Thanks so much for compiling the stats friend!

CDs used to be super nasty! I used to take six dwarves, one centaur, six hobgobs, three rerolls and six fan factor (rerolls were 50k) which suited my style perfectly. Lots of muscle, decent ball handling and reserves to let you foul without fear! High fan factor (when most other teams were one or two) meant you won pitch invasions, throw a rock, get the ref, cheering fans, etc.; this is no longer very strong with the changes to the operation of FAME. The reroll price hike was definitely necessary; CD's are still a powerful tournament team but nowhere near as nasty as before. I prefer in my world that the 'standard' teams like Orcs, humans and skaven are strongest and the 'wierd' teams competitive but not dominant.

I feel that Humans are a slightly weak tournament team; they're most powerful mid-league where they're still ahead of the skill curve and other teams aren't advanced enough to have their stat advantage fully realized.