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Rules Questions - is the LRB missing these two things?

fe2mike - Mar 31, 2003 - 02:53 PM
Post subject: is the LRB missing these two things?

1st- No where in the LRB does it state that you add +1/+2 per die for the gate in semi-final and finals matches, My commish thought that this is no longer allowed. Is he correct? The most recent reference sheet that I found allows it.
2nd- In the New Handbook (page 75) it says that you can assist a treeman standing up, but i can't find this in the LRB, is the handbook wrong?

GalakStarscraper - Mar 31, 2003 - 03:12 PM
Post subject: Re: is the LRB missing these two things?

fe2mike wrote:

1) ... hmmm I'll add this to the list for the OCtober review if its not there.

2) Treeman no longer get assists to stand ... its 4+ to stand always.

Galak

fe2mike - Mar 31, 2003 - 03:27 PM
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If this is not on the review list already really I would like to see it added:
Can you clear up the Bouncing ball stuff.
My current league plays bounce happy compared to all others I have seen or played in. They think that ANYTIME the ball lands in an empty square it bounces once. So failed pick-ups etc. all esentially bounce twice, once from you and once from the empty square. Also the person that messes up the pick-up etc. always has a possibility of multiple attempts. With this ruling the ball can bounce like crazy and I've seen easily 15-20 scatter rolls when multiple people fail to pick it up.
This just drives me crazy and would greatly appriciate a printed rules clarification. Thank you!
Mike

Jmac - Mar 31, 2003 - 08:07 PM
Post subject: Re: is the LRB missing these two things?

i've never heard of adding +1 and +2 to the gates for semi-final and finals matches before

Gertwise - Apr 01, 2003 - 03:28 AM
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It's on the reference sheet, but I don't see it in the LRB.

Also, along those lines, wasn't there something somewhere about undead not being able to regenerate if the Necromancer was kicked out of the game?

Mordredd - Apr 01, 2003 - 08:43 AM
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I think that was if your necromancer was killed or kidnapped by special play cards. Being sent off by the ref. just meant that he was confined to the dugout and could no longer argue the call on illegal procedure.

GalakStarscraper - Apr 01, 2003 - 11:09 AM
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Gertwise wrote:

That's been removed from the game permantently.

Galak

SBG - Apr 01, 2003 - 01:35 PM
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So what's the correct ruling : you add +1 and +2 to your cash roll in semis and finals or not ?

Fred

KarlLindemann - Apr 01, 2003 - 06:48 PM
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I too would enjoy seeing bouncing ball rules a little more cleared up because in some games it seems ridiculous to have that many scatterings

Valen - Apr 02, 2003 - 02:28 AM
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I was under the impression that the ball just scatters once after a failed pick up, i.e. it just lands in an adjacent square!

Is this incorrect?

Mordredd - Apr 02, 2003 - 03:29 AM
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Yes. After a failed catch the ball hits the ground and bounces once. If it bounces to another player they may attempt to catch it, failure resulting in the ball hitting the ground again and bouncing once.

Milo - Apr 09, 2003 - 07:22 PM
Post subject: Re: is the LRB missing these two things?

fe2mike wrote:

1st: I don't believe the rulebook EVER covered this. It's always been on the reference sheet, exactly where it is now.

2nd: We'll look into this for the next rules review. Don't have my handbook handy so I can't answer it at the moment, but I don't remember any explicit attempt to remove it.

Milo

snew - Apr 09, 2003 - 09:04 PM
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Mordredd wrote:

Never played it this way. Is that what the rules say? I'll have go look it up I guess.

Mordredd - Apr 10, 2003 - 04:38 AM
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From the LRB

BOUNCING BALLS
If the football is not caught, or the square where it lands is unoccupied (or is occupied by a prone player) then it will bounce. This is a technical term for the thing jumping about all over the place while the players stumble about trying to grab it! To find out where the ball bounces to, roll for scatter one more time. If the ball bounces into an occupied square, then the player in the square must attempt to catch it, as described above. If the player fails to catch the ball, then it will bounce again until it is either caught or bounces into an empty square or off the field.

So yes. Not in my exact words, but yes.

GalakStarscraper - Apr 10, 2003 - 05:28 AM
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The text is clear but you are misreading it.

Mordredd wrote:

If the football is not caught, or the square where it lands is unoccupied (or is occupied by a prone player) then it will bounce.

Stop for that line ... two conditions for the PASS result. If the ball is not caught (condition 1) or the ball where the PASS lands is unoccupied (condition 2) it will bounce ... okay so this relates only to PASSES and we have two conditions ... continuing on.

Quote:

This is a technical term for the thing jumping about all over the place while the players stumble about trying to grab it! To find out where the ball bounces to, roll for scatter one more time.

The key here is ONE time. So the player fails the catch roll you roll for the scatter once. If the PASS lands in an unoccupied square you roll once. You'll understand why I keep stressing pass in a second.

Quote:

If the ball bounces into an occupied square,

Okay, now in the first part you get the conditions for a bounce and they relate to a pass, now you get condition #3 for a bounce.

Quote:

then the player in the square must attempt to catch it, as described above. If the player fails to catch the ball, then it will bounce again until it is either caught or bounces into an empty square or off the field.

And now we see how this all ends. If a bounce lands in an unoccupied square, it will not bounce again. The key here is "it will bounce again UNTIL".

So if you carefully deconstruct the paragraph you will see that a ball does NOT bounce again after hitting the ground from a failed catch.

The paragraph is VERY clear of the 2 squares from which a bounce will occur:

1) A bounce (ie ONE scatter) can occur from the square of any failed catch.
2) A bounce (again only ONE scatter) can occur when a PASS lands in an unoccupied square.

The text is very clear in the last sentence that a bounce from the two above conditions that lands in an unoccupied square ends the bounce sequence.

The confusion comes from this sentence I understand:
"or the square where it lands is unoccupied (or is occupied by a prone player) then it will bounce"

But the context of this line is clear. The square where it lands is from a pass is the only square that qualifies as a landing square. All squares after that are just the squares where the ball bounced to.

Hope that helps. Here are the other situations that start a single bounce sequence:
1) Failed Pick-Up
2) Ball with ball falling over or leaving the pitch for any reason
3) Throw-in from the crowd to an unoccupied square
4) Kickoff landing in an unoccupied square

Before anyone asks ... this one is not going on the Hot List for the BBRC. The BBRC has made it clear that misunderstandings of clear text in the LRB will not be included as clarifications. This one falls in that category.

Galak

Doubleskulls - Apr 10, 2003 - 05:44 AM
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GalakStarscraper wrote:

2) Ball with ball falling over

Weird mental images come to mind.

Mordredd - Apr 10, 2003 - 08:05 AM
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I think that's what I said, or was trying to say in not so many words.
Nice step by step explanation.