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Europe - V. Dungeon Bowl - Softpoints

CoachRattenfetza - Sep 03, 2007 - 01:57 AM
Post subject: V. Dungeon Bowl - Softpoints

Hey guys,

after the experience of the recent tourneys and not at least the feedback from YOU out there, I'm thinking about leaving the softpoints out for next years Dungeon Bowl.

BUT
There will be a penalty for "unfair" coaches - something like yellow and red cards and the loss of tourney points...

AND
nice painting will be important for "best painted" team competition.

What do YOU think?

Cheers
Sascha

Valen - Sep 03, 2007 - 08:03 AM
Post subject: RE: V. Dungeon Bowl - Softpoints

I have always believed that Sportsmanship points have no place in BB tornis. I agree that there needs to be some kind Yellow Red card system maybe for people who may break the rules and points deductions is a good deterrent, but I would be very happy if the majors started ignoring sportsmanship points all together.

Good call Sascha

Kithor - Sep 03, 2007 - 10:24 AM
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Sascha,

I agree with your changes.
Every coach at a tournament should be considered as a "great sportsman".
Nethertheless for unsportsmanlike behavior there should be a penalty like the yellow or red card you mentioned.

Kithor

lauth81 - Sep 03, 2007 - 12:57 PM
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Sportsmanship: No points should be awarded for sportsmanship. Fair play should be enforceable some way (cards) even if I doubt there`ll be a need for it

Miniatures/painting: I'd like to see either a basic requirements for participating (3 main colours + bases done for example) or some penalties (-2 pts overall maybe) for not meeting some standard. Clearly identifiable positsion players is another thing I would like to see (base rings are fine).

Banelord - Sep 03, 2007 - 01:48 PM
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Hey Sascha,

I also agree with your proposed changes.

Yellow and red cards (e.g. -1 pts and -3 pts) for unsportsmanlike behavior.

Quote:

Miniatures/painting: I'd like to see either a basic requirements for participating (3 main colours + bases done for example) or some penalties (-2 pts overall maybe) for not meeting some standard. Clearly identifiable positsion players is another thing I would like to see (base rings are fine).

Basic requirements are a must for me. We (Baden Basho) solve this "problem" with one free ReRoll for the opponent if "3 main colours + bases done" is not fulfilled.

dwarfcoach - Sep 03, 2007 - 04:06 PM
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Banelord wrote:

...
Basic requirements are a must for me. We (Baden Basho) solve this "problem" with one free ReRoll for the opponent if "3 main colours + bases done" is not fulfilled.

Best way of ensuring a basic standard I have ever heard of, bravo!

Hangus - Sep 04, 2007 - 03:08 AM
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it would be a good rule if you had two teams playing with 3 basic colours that cancelled out the free rerolls ie if both have that standard then they don't get a free one. So someone is not being punished (slightly) for only having cheaper rerolls.

Pipey - Sep 04, 2007 - 08:46 AM
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Never been to the Dungeonbowl but I'm considering in for next year.

Given that 99% of other BB tourneys don't use soft points and work fine, I don't see why they're needed here.

Banelord - Sep 04, 2007 - 01:35 PM
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Quote:

Best way of ensuring a basic standard I have ever heard of, bravo!

THX

Quote:

Of course this would be my desicion (as commissioner) for thsi rare situation.

Mordredd - Sep 07, 2007 - 07:33 AM
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I've always felt that both painting and sportsmanship should have an effect in tourneys, both being intrinsic parts of the game.

I like the sportsmanship only being a negative score for bad coaches and not a positive for good coaches method. Perhaps painting could follow the same lines?

But I'm of the opinion that it is better to have a positive score for painting and that the only thing that makes it problematic is when you hand responsibility for giving these points out to a coach's opponents, because then it can become somewhat inconsistent. Ideally there should be a single judge of all competitors' painting standards.

I think that painting should be positive to reward people for making the minimums rather than punishing them for not making them. Sportsmanship needs to be a negative only for bad sports as the whole idea of what is good/bad sportsmanship is a little subjective. When you are just going through a tick list of basic achievements (based, fully painted, 3+ colours, numbered) then painting is a quantifiable, non-subjective category (they're all numbered or they're not). So better, IMO, to provide a carrot rather than a stick.

I don't like the free reroll idea as it essentially rewards random coaches as well as punishing the offending coach, and is somewhat inconsistent in effect. A free reroll will mean more to an Elf team than say Dwarfs or Amazons who tend to have more than they need.

I also think that it is a mistake to say that the best painted competition is there to reward peoples' efforts in painting. It's a bit like saying that the most casualties award is there to encourage Elf coaches to block more; they're never going to win it against competition like Khemri so they're hardly going to really try, are they. Most people don't have a shot at best painted, and they know it, so it is hardly going to encourage people to strive to meet minimum standards let alone exceed them. It certainly isn't going to reward more than 1 person per tournament for their efforts in painting their team nicely, and I don't think that is a good thing.

CoachRattenfetza - Sep 07, 2007 - 08:27 AM
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Thanks for the feedback!

I dropped both the sporting and painting extra points, as they appeared last year(s). There will be a penalty (loss of tourney points) for "bad behaviour" - we will clear this out. Also is the painting re-roll thing a nice one for gaming groups (I used a similiar system for a Necromunda campaign), but not for a tourney like this. I will also state WHY we did this before - but I have to translate it first (you will find it in the new Dungeon Bowl booklets)...

Cheers
Sascha

Utak - Sep 07, 2007 - 10:19 AM
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Good decision, Iam looking forward the tournament Smile

CoachRattenfetza - Sep 13, 2007 - 10:40 AM
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With the next years tourney, we will forgo the sportingpointsystem for the first time (in five years of Dungeon Bowl).

To organise a tourney on this high standard and of this public value - as one of the four Majors in Blood Bowl history, it seemed to be necessary, that we had to force the behaviour and sportmanship of each and every participiant; with so many different cultures, tempers and characters - well, the last years only showed us, that such a system could be responsible for misunderstandings and disturbances of a atmosphere we love to generate.

So that's where we stand now: We hope that YOUR ???Outstanding Performance??? on sportmanship and love of the game will go on; even without any points for it Wink

Banelord - Sep 13, 2007 - 11:03 AM
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good decision! Worship