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North America - Have I wasted $10.00 on Games Day?
Da_Todfatha - Apr 20, 2003 - 05:53 AM
Post subject: Have I wasted $10.00 on Games Day?
I've been searching for mention of the Tournament at the Baltimore Games Day which I registered for. I know it's not as exciting as the Chaos Cup in Chicago or the the Bloodbowl in England, but is no one going to play at Baltimore?
GW even screwed up my order and of the two tickets I purchased, they only registered one for bloodbowl. I didn't catch the mistake until I got the tickets in the mail, so I called and there were still slots available for the tourney...what gives?
Did I miss the memo about a boycott or something? I was looking forward to meeting some fellow enthusiasts.
Old_Man_Monkey - Apr 20, 2003 - 05:52 PM
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Todfatha, the only mention I could find of a tournament in Baltimore was the GT in March. Do you have the date you were supposed to play?
skummy - Apr 20, 2003 - 07:12 PM
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Um, I was in the Baltimore GT for 2003, and it has most certainly already taken place. If you're a native of the area, we do have a league going in Northern VA, though...
GalakStarscraper - Apr 21, 2003 - 09:46 AM
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Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
Todfatha, the only mention I could find of a tournament in Baltimore was the GT in March. Do you have the date you were supposed to play?
Agreed the only GW sponsered tournament I knew of was for Baltimore was in March.
Oh and Todfatha ... when you list those tournaments in the US ... don't forget the tournament at GenCon which is being run by GW as well. There is a good change that tournament will have more than double the # of coaches as the Chaos Cup ... just wish I could see how many had already signed up so I could be more certain on this fact.
Galak
snew - Apr 21, 2003 - 11:14 AM
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$10 shouldn't be a waste. There should still be at least $10 sorth of stuff ot see and do there, even if there isn't a BB game going on. At the very least you can talk to the organizers and get them to let you have one there next year.
Da_Todfatha - Apr 23, 2003 - 03:19 PM
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Well I guess I wasn't very clear, but there is a bloodbowl tournament at Games Day Baltimore, but it is getting overshadowed by the Chaos Cup which will be played at the Chicago Games Day. The cost of a Games Day ticket is $25, but to register for the Bloodbowl tournament is an extra $10. It is listed in the Games day info that was included with WHite dwarf, last issue.
Unfortunately, what you guys all are saying is "yes, Todd, you wasted $10 bucks cuz no one else seems to be playing in it." 
Old_Man_Monkey - Apr 23, 2003 - 06:01 PM
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Well, I guess what I, and others, was trying to say is that Baltimore is over. Sorry - tell you what: if you can make the GenCon tournament, I'll reimburse your entry fee for the Baltimore tourney you missed. 
mroswick - Apr 23, 2003 - 07:13 PM
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GalakStarscraper wrote:
Agreed the only GW sponsered tournament I knew of was for Baltimore was in March.
Well, let's put it this way:
GW is advertising (in the Games Day circular and website) and taking money for a Bloodbowl tournament at Games Day in Baltimore on 6/20-21.
Whether anybody is actually running it or not is another matter entirely.
Da_Todfatha - Apr 23, 2003 - 08:44 PM
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Right Mroswick, that's what I am saying, so since no one seems to know about it perhaps we can get US torunament organizer involved so I don't sit there and play bloodbowl from both sides of the table. It saddens me to know that no one else seems to know about it. Did anyone read the circular that GW sent out? heheh, someone in their advertising department is currently having a stroke! 
Anyway, now that I am telling you there IS a BB tourney at Games Day Baltimore, is there anyone interested that will now call GW and register for it? I would cut&paste their adverts, but it's in a format that doesn't allow cut&paste. It is on the GW webpage though, if you want to check it out.
GalakStarscraper - Apr 23, 2003 - 09:48 PM
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Hey ... I found it. Sorry guys ... I thought this had already happened.
Okay a 24 man tournament:
http://www.games-workshop.com/news/us/events/GamesDay2003/Getting_Tickets/Getting_Tickets.htm
http://www.games-workshop.com/news/us/events/GamesDay2003/Tournaments/Tournaments.htm
I don't like the fact that SPPs and skills carry over ... a Wood Elf team plays Halflings in game 1 and goes on to win the tournament ... BAH!!!
Okay a 24 man tournament might sell out pretty quick. Try to find out who is running it. Good luck, its not the type of BB tournament I prefer but I'm betting it will be a good time no matter.
Oh and if you can make it to GenCon ... hope to see you there ... 
Galak
Old_Man_Monkey - Apr 24, 2003 - 01:32 AM
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Kudos to Galak and my apologies to Todfatha for sounding off - on a surface skim of the GW Tourney site, I only saw the 2002 and 03/03 dates. Hey Skummy, are you or any of the NOVA crowd headed that way? 
Da_Todfatha - May 27, 2003 - 03:54 PM
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Has anyone registered yet for the Tourney at Games Day Baltimore? I figured I'd try to keep this subject close to the top since no one lese is posting.
So far Mroswick, Old Man Monkey, and myself have registered...anyone else?
Well fellas if we are it, I'll bet we can come up with alternate tourney rules to suit our own tastes...ANd hey the worst you can do is 3rd place.
Old_Man_Monkey - May 28, 2003 - 05:54 AM
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Hey, skummy, what about the NoVA crowd coming up? Sure would be a waste to have a number of NAF coaches in the same area and not get some games in that count?
jaylazer - May 30, 2003 - 06:29 AM
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I signed up last week. So I'll be coming down from Philly.
A friend of mine is supposed to come with me. I don't know if he's signed up or not, though.
It'll be cool to meet some of the americans on the list finally.
Da_Todfatha - May 31, 2003 - 07:03 AM
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Tell Cassotta I'm gonna kick his arse, and to bring my beer! 
hoxworth - Jun 07, 2003 - 10:54 PM
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Ooh, skummy, where in northern VA? I'm going to be moving to the north D.C. area in just a few weeks (Columbia), and was wondering if there were any leagues around there... with the U.S. GW headquarters being so near, you'd think there'd be SOMETHING, but the Games Workshop store in the Arundel Mills mall barely carried any Blood Bowl stuff.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 09, 2003 - 05:56 PM
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Hey, Todfatha, Mos, et al:
Has anyone made arrangements to have this tournament sanctioned? I realize that not a lot of players have signed up yet, but someone should let Gregg know and get the games and tourney NAF-approved.
I know, I"LL DO IT!
skummy - Jun 09, 2003 - 08:53 PM
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Hox_ii wrote:
Ooh, skummy, where in northern VA? I'm going to be moving to the north D.C. area in just a few weeks (Columbia), and was wondering if there were any leagues around there... with the U.S. GW headquarters being so near, you'd think there'd be SOMETHING, but the Games Workshop store in the Arundel Mills mall barely carried any Blood Bowl stuff.
Whoa, Hox_ii sorry it took me so long to see this post. The league is nominally centered in Arlington, inside the beltway. We do have at least one coach up in your area, and we're always looking for new players. Unfortunately, it's very likely I'll be moving to Washington state in the near future, but I'll probably be back in the next six months. If you'd like to get a good idea about what our league is like, you can check out our Yahoo! group at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FNBBL/ and ask our moderator (Aristodeimos) to make you a member. Drop my name and I'm sure he'll sign you up.
Our league runs a two tiered system in which players can coach three teams at a time. We have 4 major tournaments a year, and only one of your teams can compete in these scheduled games. Your other teams are in the minor leagues, and can play a game against whatever minor league team they can talk into a game. New coaches generally leave their teams in the minor leagues and build up strength before challenging the bigger teams in the majors.
Big teams that get whupped up on badly go back to the minors to recuperate. It's an interesting system, but works only becasue we have a very active league.
jaylazer - Jun 11, 2003 - 07:51 AM
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Did anyone recieve a rules packet for this tournament?
So far all I know is that we have a 1,000,000 GPS team and that SPPs carry over.
I signed up several weeks ago but never got a packet.
Do injuries carry over? Do we earn Gold for new purchases?
It would be much easier to plan with this info.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 11, 2003 - 11:57 AM
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All I've received is the Gamesday pass - nothing else. I can't remember where I saw it but I was thinking that injuries carried and gold was earned. Time to PM the "Hivemind" . . .
jaylazer - Jun 11, 2003 - 12:41 PM
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I just looked at http://www.games-workshop.com/news/us/events/GamesDay2003/Tournaments/Tournaments.htm
All it says is
Quote:
- You must register in advance to play.
- Players must bring a 1,000,000-crown team. The same team will be used for all of the games in the tournament. Star player points and new skills will be carried over from game to game.
- Maximum of 24 players.
skummy - Jun 11, 2003 - 01:03 PM
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I have to warn you that at the GT in Baltimore, they didn't assign a staffer to run the tournament until 10 minutes before it started. It was run as a swiss league, where money was rolled and casualties stuck. If you can't get an answer from the organizers, I'd highly suggest that you show up with multiple rosters for contingency purposes.
I'm just sorry I can't make it...
jaylazer - Jun 11, 2003 - 01:57 PM
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I just talked to a GW Mail Order guy and he basically said that it worked like Skummy just said.
He didn't sound completely sure but he was just grabbing at straws either.
I guess I'll plan for multiple scenarios.
Here's another question. Any idea how Star Players will work? I'm guessing that we will be freebooting them outright.
There are just so many questions.
skummy - Jun 11, 2003 - 02:31 PM
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Yeah, outright freebooting is the way they work.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 11, 2003 - 02:56 PM
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Jay et al: I just got a reply from Tim Huckelbery from GW. He is passing along our lists of questions to those in charge of running the tourney and they should send something to me by Monday. They also should be posting more information to the BB page on the GW site.
I know it's cutting it close, especially if one has some serious painting to do! Anyway, wanted to pass this along . . .
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 11, 2003 - 02:58 PM
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Also, I haven't heard back from Gregg whether this tourney is approved for NAF rankings - if anyone has info about that, please post here.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 19, 2003 - 05:14 PM
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OK - no luck in getting a determination from anyone about the specifics (injury carry over, gold, etc.) that will be used this weekend in Baltimore, and never heard back from Gregg G. about this tourney being sanctioned as counting towards NAF rankings. 
I know there are not many signed up for this weekend but there is certainly a need for more complete and consistent tourney rulesets, otherwise rankings are virtually meaningless, let alone a player's ability to plan and prep for a tourney, IMHO.
Don't mean to loudly gripe, but surely we can do better than this . . .
GalakStarscraper - Jun 22, 2003 - 09:18 AM
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Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
Don't mean to loudly gripe, but surely we can do better than this . . .
A tournament is only as good as the man or team organizing it.
GW just saying ... oh a Games Day Event ... better have a tournament does not equal a good event.
OMM ... since you are going to so many tournaments this year in the US ... could you keep notes about the format, number of players, and the vibe from the crowd about how the tournament was perceived ... (ie did they like the format and have fun) ... also your personal take on the organization, fun level of the tournament, etc. would be very valuable to putting some stuff together.
I'm thinking about opening a tournament section on blood-bowl.net to host a list of standard tournament formats and rules that are well received ... I know that this site has some of that, but b-b.net is more hit and free so maybe we can help the masses get a little better clue.
But your input from seeing several would be very cool, OMM.
Tom
Da_Todfatha - Jun 22, 2003 - 04:06 PM
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Well it's over, and OLD MAN MONKEY won the tournament. Congrats Jim! You've set a precident that you better defend your title at GENCON!
It was a pleasure meeting those of you that I did in fact meet.
I must admit I was a bit disappointed that the tournament wasn't better run, though I do not fault the GW Staffer that got stuck with this duty, he seemed to run the event as an Intro game trying to over do it IMO, with the enthusiasm. He also had to play his goblin team as a fill-in opponent for someone that did not show.
The points could have been better explained as well as the starting time.
I showed up at 2 and the BB tourney had started at 12, so my opponent Rozman and I played a game in one hour flat pregame-postgame. It must have been posted somewhere, but I hadn't seen it.
Deathwing - Jun 22, 2003 - 05:45 PM
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Missed this thread for a while, just caught up.
Out of interest, how many NAF were there?
Deathwing - Jun 22, 2003 - 06:13 PM
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GalakStarscraper wrote:
I'm thinking about opening a tournament section on blood-bowl.net to host a list of standard tournament formats and rules that are well received ... I know that this site has some of that, but b-b.net is more hit and free so maybe we can help the masses get a little better clue.
Tom
Tom this is exactly the kind of content we want here. I've been thinking alone these lines for a while now, a selection of different rulesets that have been used (e.g. Resurrection and it's variants), but never seem to find the time to get it done. Seriously, it'd be perfect in the 'Sections-Tournaments' (which so far just has the 'How To..' doc; some different tourney rulesets alongside would kick ass). If you do this for blood-bowl.net, submit it for inclusion here too please.
P.S. Only the forums here are members only, pretty much everything else is accessible to all.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 22, 2003 - 11:13 PM
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OK - dedicated IP/cable modem is behaving like 28.8 tonight, so I'll try this once more before I call it a night . . .)
Just returned from Baltimore and trying to catch up - these thoughts first:
a. I don't 'feel' like the champion - I think most of those who were there thought Mike Roswick with his Norse team deserved the championship. Mike was undefeated (3-0-0) headed into the last round and was a superb sportsman during our final match. I'll post more later both here and at house-rulez, but Mike was a gentleman and I am pretty sure he was as mystified as were most of the rest of us at the outcome. I felt pretty helpless and just wanted Mike to know that I believe he was the best overall player this past weekend. No sense of false modesty - just an honest feeling, shared by most, that the scoring did not reflect what we all experienced and witnessed. I talked to the scorers after the awards ceremony and after reading the Rogue Trader guidelines, rule set, and scoring tables, there were lots of possible outcomes, but there was certainly a level of frustration - not 'walk out the door' stuff - from wanting to prepare and understand what was happening, and not being given the information that was needed.
b. It was truly great to meet player and fellow enthusiasts of the game - the camaraderie was just superb. First game was against Jay Deckman(whom Galak had already warned me about!) and his Wood Elves, meeting DaTodfatha and the PSU folk (and swallowing a little humble pie! ), swapping hotshot one-liners with the "Mad Doctor" John - commish of the NJBBL, Jason, Mike, Cole, everyone seemed to be enjoying the BB weekend. For me, this is so central - if others witness us having a great time, it has to spread.
c. Deathwing: on first glance, the NAF number was four, though there might have been one or two more. The final count was 18 players - which though not too big, is far better than the 5 or 6 I thought might be there (which speaks volumes to the number of pretty serious BB players who aren't aware of NAF yet, much less have signed up).
d. Too many other things that are appropriate elsewhere: impressions of my first Gamesday, interview with Tim Huckelbery on the state and future of BB, conversation with Vince Rospond and Black Library's willingness to publish BB-themed fiction (Dan Abnett mentioned he's considered writing a BB story something like "Field of Dreams" without all the psychoanalysis.), how American players are way behind Europeans in terms of their overall organization and their commitment to tournament play, being ambassadors of the game, etc etc.
Finally, if anyone has pictures of the new BB figures (Jaylazer - I think you said your group might have some) please forward to my email; mine did not turn out well and I think there were some on display that have not been online yet. I will simply echo comments posted elsewhere that the new minis (esp. the Ogre cheeleader and the new Elves side) are superb.
OK, better stop here so I've got something to give to Brian for HR (image of editor in 'Spiderman': "Crap. Crap, Barely passable. Crap. Jeez, kid, you suck!")
To everyone at GD-Baltimore - a parting glass. Full marks to the players since I believe the group made the weekend pretty damn awesome!
Hope to see familiar faces at GenCon and Chaos Cup!
OMM
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 23, 2003 - 07:28 AM
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Quote:
A tournament is only as good as the man or team organizing it.
GW just saying ... oh a Games Day Event ... better have a tournament does not equal a good event
Just reviewing what I wrote last night for coherency. Still makes sense I trust.
I certainly agree with Tom that the tourney is only as good as the those hosting but I believe it fair to expect that when GW hosts a tournament, they are organized and reasonable. Baltimore was by no means a complete shambles, but the player's lack of knowing what to expect and not giving some allowances when available diminished an otherwise great time.
On first glance, there appears to be a gap of awareness between the Specialist people who engage the BB boards and a large proportion of the GW staff who come to BB from inside WH looking out. This gap has to do with the nature of BB and its community as well as the game's differences from standard RT games.
Unlike the Blood Bowl, GenCon, Chaos Cup (I received a copy of the Cup rules from Tim Huckelbery BTW), et al tournaments, important rules considerations were left until 5 minutes before tournament start - SPs in or out, value of sportsmanship, team building, and painting, whether LRB understandings were to be considered, etc. This affected team choice, results judging (I for one scored all of my opponents as high as possible - if I had know that Sportsmanship would be quite important, I might have been more discriminating, and so others.) Am not at all saying that Sportmanship cannot or even should not be the most important factor - in reading the RTT Guidebook, it is clearly the factor most stressed in this play - just pointing out that knowing this ahead of time would have been helpful. This is where it appears that GW staff are unaware of the communications and interaction (discussions regarding rules and usage, preference of formats and tourney setup, etc.) of the BB community and the Specialist staff.
(As an aside - one benefit of getting these things established up front is to assist the newer tournament players as to rules usage and determinings - several players I ran into were familiar only with older rulesets and by posting, sending the players or having a factsheet availble upon sign in would have cleared away any confusion.)
I share DaTodfatha's feelings but for me it's the 'Band of Brothers' (and Sisters' - huzzah Shoshanna and her mighty Humans!) enjoyment. This weekend probably points to the several places that need organization and effort - I look forward to the work because I believe the outcome is going to be awesome - great gameplay, growth in interest in the game, and greater fun for all.
OK, I'll pipe down for awhile
OMM
Da_Todfatha - Jun 23, 2003 - 02:18 PM
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I totally agree. The players themselves were fantastic. In fact, any lapse of organization was completely compensated for by the enthusiasm of the Coaches.
The US is a big place and there are few enough events that one can make it to, so I was disappointed this one wasn't NAF-sanctioned. though my 1-2-1 record may have lost me points anyway. hehehehehe
OMM you mentioned a tournament at the RTT in Charlotte in August is that a definite? IS there somebody running it?
I spoke about NAF and TBB to each of my opponents and was surprised at how few know about the "BB Community at Large!" But we are getting the word out.
skummy - Jun 23, 2003 - 02:28 PM
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Todd - I got the impression that Milo, one of the BBRC guys would be going to the Charlotte tourney. It's fairly close to his home base. I wish I had more information on it, though. Out of curiosity, did you play your Orcs again?
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 23, 2003 - 03:21 PM
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The link I found was this:
http://www.games-workshop.com/news/us/events/GT-2003/Rules/Rules.htm#SpecialistRules
From talking to the people I met at ConCarolina in May, there will be a Blood Bowl tournament as part of the Charlotte GT, similar to the Baltimore Rogue Trader tournaments. It's just three games - I will try to find out if RTT scoring will apply and any other info.
I have requested the RTT Guidelines be added to the downloads available on their site - this is one way GW can point players in advance to the point system that is planned.
Glad everyone made it home safely.
OMM
Da_Todfatha - Jun 23, 2003 - 06:40 PM
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Well I sent Milo an email, He's my Commish (on sabbatical), and he said that he hadn't heard anything about the Charlotte GT except that it might include a BB tourney. I might be able to make it.
Skummy do I know you or have spoken about my orcs before? Yes, I played them, though not very well. My first game was against Rozman and his blasted Norse. I lost 3-0 and he killed my goblin.
Game 2 was against a fairly inexperienced Skaven coach that I beat 2-1, though a second half blitz really screwed him.
Game 3 was against the aforementioned Shoshanna with her humans. This was a fun game as we realized that we were in the bottom echelons of the rankings and settled in to play for fun. We tied 1-1. Good game.
Game 4 was against the Lizards Tony Stoyanov. Good guy, fun game. Lost 2-0.
not a real good showing of what the greenies can do, but a good time all the same. I am eager to play my experienced Orks in a league match now. In fact I have a Norse team lined up for next weekend. I doubt I'll win any sportsmanship awards in that one.
jaylazer - Jun 23, 2003 - 07:46 PM
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First, I'd like to say that it was great to meet all the guys (and gal) that I met at the tourney. I had a great time in all my games and everyone was a great sport.
Like the other guys, I wasn't very happy with how the tourney was run. The other guys have pretty much mentioned all the problems so I wont go into that. I'm hoping that if me give them some good feedback they'll be able to run it better next year.
My friend did get some pictures of the new mini's. I don't know how they turned out. I'll check with him and find out. Once I get some copies I'll post them so everyone can see.
mroswick - Jun 23, 2003 - 10:19 PM
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I just wanted to say what an amazing time I had at the tourney at Games Day Baltimore.
I think most people took the lack of information about the points system/ table assignment criteria/ rankings and ran with it. If you don't know how it's all being measured, you can't waste too much of your time worrying about it
The only stress I really experienced was fitting a 16 turn game into an hour against Da Todfatha in Round 1, and then trying not to embarass myself in my first exposure to the BBowl community outside of Raleigh.
Well, maybe as the crowd gathered towards the end of my final game with Old Man Monkey I got a little tense, but he was such a great guy to play that it didn't really get to me. Nothing like having most everybody else in the tournament watching your every move as time is running down to make you a bit self-conscious
On the whole, I'd have to say that while the tournament may only be as good as the man or team organizing it, it's the participants who really make it memorable. Regardless of how well/poorly run it might be, you're not going to have a good time unless there are good people playing, and I know I had a great time with everybody I met.
I hope to make the GT in Charlotte and run into some of the folks again.
GalakStarscraper - Jun 25, 2003 - 11:27 AM
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Deathwing wrote:
Tom this is exactly the kind of content we want here. I've been thinking alone these lines for a while now, a selection of different rulesets that have been used (e.g. Resurrection and it's variants), but never seem to find the time to get it done. Seriously, it'd be perfect in the 'Sections-Tournaments'
I plan on doing this ... too much painting to do for the GenCon Bowl ... but I will do this and get it posted on both sites.
Galak