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Strategy and Tactics - How do you make High Elves Work?

bb_nut - Jul 20, 2008 - 02:47 PM
Post subject: How do you make High Elves Work?

Hi all,

I've be thinking of doing a high Elf team for a while now, but I'm having trouble see what makes them any good?

What would you guys take for Tournament (both 100tr and 110tr) and leagues teams? What skills are key to them? Are they in the same league as Dark Elves (i.e. very hard to get the most out of them)? Or are they up there with the skavens and the like?

Thanks Corax

Spazzfist - Jul 20, 2008 - 05:49 PM
Post subject: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

Corax wrote:

I've be thinking of doing a high Elf team for a while now, but I'm having trouble see what makes them any good?

Everyone with AG4 and better than 7 armour is not good enough for you?

bb_nut - Jul 21, 2008 - 05:20 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

The AG4 is good, but i don't see anything that makes them special compared to the other high AG races. IMHO Wood Elves have wardancers and better catchers, gutter runners are cheaper and faster and pro elves are cheaper and seem to have a better skill selection.

Cramy - Jul 21, 2008 - 06:21 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

Corax wrote:

The best elf team is the Wood Elf team. But, every team has its own advantage.

Wood Elf. Fastest team, and the Wardancers are just amazing out of the box. Fragile and very expensive players though. So in a league, they can suffer from not beign able to replace dead players. They have the best passing game. ST2 Catchers.

Elf. They are fragile, and slower than the Wood Elves. They get pretty good positionals out of the box. They are cheaper though, so it is easier to replace players.

High Elves: They are as fast as the Elves, but with better armor, but less starting skills. They have a pretty good passing game too. They are expensive. But every player needs a skill or two to become good.

Dark Elves: Slowest of the elf races. Not such a great passing game. Blitzers and Witch Elves are quite good. Probably the most difficult to play.

So for the High Elves, you have to adjust to the opponent. That's the key. With AV8 and block/wrestle and dodge on a few guys, you can maneuvre around and hit the weaker side of the opponent. You have to build all your players to have the skills that you need though.

On offense, just score. That shouldn't be too hard for any elf team.

Spread the SPPs so that all players skill-up once or twice. Then you have blodging or wrestle/dodge linemen facing mostly unskilled linemen. Not only will it help them survive, it is a great tactical advantage on the field.

Develop two catchers as ball extractors. Wrestle and Strip ball are good for that. Dodge is always good.

Hope this helps.

Spazzfist - Jul 21, 2008 - 07:59 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

Cramy summed it up perfectly.

Hangus - Jul 22, 2008 - 10:54 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

They also won the GT at Nottingham this year (180 odd coaches). So in the right hands they must be quite good. Very Happy

MaD - Jul 23, 2008 - 05:13 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

it's depende in which way you play...
i'll try two times in turney...
one with 4 catchers and thrower
one with 3 catchers and no thrower...i prefere this version for my style game
but in tourney you'll need much luck. and tourney rules are important.. starting with or without skills even too

in a league they growing good... i had played for three years and scoring 28/5/5 and placed 2nd in the first years and won the others two

stick_with_poo_on_the_end - Jul 26, 2008 - 04:23 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

Hangus wrote:

They also won the GT at Nottingham this year (180 odd coaches). So in the right hands they must be quite good. Very Happy

naah, he just drew a chump in the final! Wink

KarlLagerbottom - Jul 26, 2008 - 06:54 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

Spazzfist wrote:

Cramy summed it up perfectly.

Odd...cause SuM ususally Crams It Up perfectly. Smile

Sorry for the interuption...now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

KarlLagerbottom - Jul 26, 2008 - 06:56 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

Cramy wrote:

Develop two catchers as ball extractors. Wrestle and Strip ball are good for that. Dodge is always good.

Hope this helps.

Here's a question...what do you go for first? I think Dodge, but your tech seems to rely alot on Wrestle. Do you ever take that first?

PubBowler - Jul 26, 2008 - 07:05 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

stick_with_poo_on_the_end wrote:

Hangus wrote:

They also won the GT at Nottingham this year (180 odd coaches). So in the right hands they must be quite good. Very Happy

naah, he just drew a chump in the final! Wink

They say admitting the problem is the first step to dealing with it...

Darkson - Jul 26, 2008 - 10:51 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

I find whipping them hard enough to remove the top layer or so of skin, but no deeper works. Also, increase their water ration from one to two cups a day.

Oh, you mean work on the pitch - I thought you meant down the mine!

mysticforce - Dec 31, 2008 - 08:10 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

HE are an easy team to win with, you just need to know how to defend scoring is relativly easy. For defending you need to know how to play what I call "Pesky Elf defence" for use against bashy teams That is you use AG4 to stay out of tackle zones so they can only blitz you once per turn and then use packs of players to hunt down any lone players, you have the movemnt to stay in contact whith any fast teams and agility to avoid any slow teams. My favorite defensive player is the thrower with nerves of steal and sure hands to go in and grab lose balls and put them safe. Watch out for pouring rain easy 2+ roles become 3+ and you will fail a lot more than you expect.

Cramy - Jan 03, 2009 - 07:44 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

KarlLagerbottom wrote:

Cramy wrote:

Develop two catchers as ball extractors. Wrestle and Strip ball are good for that. Dodge is always good.

Hope this helps.

Here's a question...what do you go for first? I think Dodge, but your tech seems to rely alot on Wrestle. Do you ever take that first?

I would go for Wrestle, followed by Strip Ball and Leap on at least one of them first. You want Strip Ball fairly early in the league, as that's when it is most effective (i.e. before all other teams have a Sure Hands player). But Wrestle before Strip Ball, as Wrestle is almost always useful. His job is to get the ball lose as soon as there is an opening. If your league is already full of Sure Hands, then one of the two catchers should get Tackle instead. The threat of Sure Hands is always useful, especially if you slow down the cage enough that your opponent must do something drastic to try to score.

I play the "pesky Elf defense" that mysticforce mentions. One linelf gets kick, then most others get dodge first. Then a mix of block and wrestle as the second skill. They slow-down the cage by getting out of tackle zones and staying in front of the cage, and provide assists where needed.

Against bashy teams, with a bit of luck and doing it right, your opponent will have to do something desperate to get to the EZ. When this happens, you hit the ball carrier with a wrestle/strip ball catcher. Then use your other positionals to get the ball away from the cage. A thrower with dodge, sure hands, NoS is good for that. Dodge to the ball, pick-it up, and use NoS/Safe Throw to throw it to a team mate that hasn't moved yet, or as far as possible in the other half, where hopefully your speed means that you'll get to the ball before he does.

So keep your positionals behind the linemen so that they don't get hit and wait for the right opportunity to make your hit on the ball carrier.

Doubleskulls - Jan 03, 2009 - 04:42 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

I think the key to HEs is the catchers. 8347 is a great stat line - fast, good strength and agile. The downside is no starting skills other than catch.

So you need to get all four asap. You can develop them as specialists (blitzer/receiver/defensive safety) or generalists. Normally I'll start off as a generalist and then let the specialisation kick in after the 3rd or 4th skill. That gives opportunity to exploit any stat increases.

Two skills I'd want every catcher to have dodge and either wrestle or block. Wrestle is better for freeing the ball, but worse for carrying the ball. I think there is an argument to say that unless you build a dedicated ball carrier (i.e someone you expect to get hit carrying the ball) then give them all wrestle. In foul happy leagues wrestle might shorten lifespan slighty too. Normally I'll take dodge first, because I think that accelerates them to a second skill quicker - but you need a balance of block/wrestle on the team so you aren't always hitting with the blitzers. So if the line elves aren't skilling up (or you aren't giving them block/wrestle) then take wrestle first.

After that there are lots of options.
Tackle, Strip Ball, Leap all help develop as a blitzer/ball stripper style of player.
Sidestep, diving tackle, tackle, shadowing as a defensive marker type.

If I get AG5 on one I'll normally ensure they get dodge and leap asap.

Doubles offer some interesting choices. NoS makes for superb receivers. Dump Off is interesting when you've so much AG4 catch available too. However without NoS it isn't so powerful. Guard of course is an excellent utility skill - on a fast mobile player can be very valuable. If you've already developed a bit as a blitzer then Mighty Blow is worth considering. Juggernaut is worth considering too - especially if there is lots of Stand Firm or if you've strip ball.

6,4s are interesting choices. Normally I'd advise taking the MA. Live fast, die young. 5,5 I'd probably tend towards the double rather than MA/Av.

AK_Dave - Jan 03, 2009 - 07:27 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

I'm with Ian on this. The HE Catcher is the breadwinner of the team. Blitzers and Linos make holes. A Thrower helps get the ball in the right hands. The HE game is a fast score throwing game. Get Accurate on a Thrower and he's amazing. If he also has AG5 and/or Strong Arm then you're golden.

The DO/NOS combo on a Catcher is pretty sweet, but honestly you need to develop more than one guy like this for it to be fully effective. Making it an extremely expensive (TV and Doubles) trick to develop. Dark Elves and Pro Elves are better suited to this combo, and in fact it is the only thing that I think DE Runners have going for them.

In general, I'd encourage your Doubles rolls to be filled with Strength skills, but NOS or DO are viable alternatives if you're fortunate to have your team's Guard needs taken care of.

smeborg - Jan 03, 2009 - 10:20 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

I endorse what Doubleskulls and AK Dave have said.

The Catchers are the engine room of the HE team. And they are excellent value. Get 4 of them ASAP. My preferred development route would be Dodge, Wrestle.

Hope this helps.

mysticforce - Jan 06, 2009 - 10:21 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: How do you make High Elves Work?

There are very few playes with M8 and S3 out there so anything that can catch them will normally need an assist to get two dice making them very survivable even with AV7 dodge is the first skill I give them as it helps with blocks and mobility