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Rules Questions - Experimental Teams
DarkDancer17 - May 20, 2009 - 02:16 PM
Post subject: Experimental Teams
So with the release of the Experimental teams - are they actually going to be made official in the near future?
Slann, Chaos Pact, Underworld Creepers - can we look towards the end of the tunnel where they might be standard? 
Thanks!
Darkson - May 20, 2009 - 04:16 PM
Post subject: RE: Experimental Teams
Not until there are official models for all 3 of the teams (i.e. Slann). Until then, they're official, but not in the rulebook. 
Doubleskulls - May 20, 2009 - 08:33 PM
Post subject: RE: Experimental Teams
Darkson they are not "official" whatever Galak might have posted on the subject. They aren't in the printed rule book and won't be in LRB6 (barring a seismic shift in GW policy).
That said the BBRC has endorsed the teams and they would be being slated to be official in LRB6, however GW (not even JJ) have said no. The purported reason is the lack of minis, but it may also be influenced by Cyanide and/or long term planning around specialist games.
They are allowed in NAF sanctioned games too.
Darkson - May 21, 2009 - 02:34 AM
Post subject: RE: Experimental Teams
If JJ says they're official, that's good enough for me.
GalakStarscraper - May 21, 2009 - 08:08 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Experimental Teams
Darkson wrote:
If JJ says they're official, that's good enough for me.
I agree.
To be clear though JJ is weird on this subject.
He voted twice that the teams should be official in the BBRC votes.
He endorsed the teams receiving NAF sanctioning.
He supported the teams being included in the official GW tournaments the Chaos Cup and the Dungeonbowl.
But if you ask him if the teams are official he says no and gives you the answer that Ian gave.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - May 21, 2009 - 10:42 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Experimental Teams
Doubleskulls wrote:
Darkson they are not "official" whatever Galak might have posted on the subject.
Sigh ... 
Easy there Tex. I've only read off the notecards for quite some time now every since you gave them to me and told me I had to read from them.
I think Ian you have to "deal" with the fact that some folks think JJ and the BBRC voting to approve the teams, the NAF allowing them in the rankings, and 2 of the official GW run Major tournaments allowing them to be played counts in their mind as "official" even if they are not "official" as you use the word.
Note ... I'm still reading from your notecards ... I'm not saying the teams are official as you interpret that word and I won't as I promised.
Footnote: The above is my way of saying in a long way: "Ian you didn't need to drag me into that reply to say your points."
Galak
Axtklinge - May 21, 2009 - 11:29 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Experimental Teams
(...)
As far as I understand from whats been going on for the past years, if it wasnt for JJ+BBRC, we (and read 'we' as in 'Blood Bowl playing comunity'), 'we' wouldnt have new teams, nor new rules, nor new nothing, and as GW doesnt give a rat's @ss to small selling games (specialist games they call it) I seriously doubt that BB would be "alive & kicking" the way it is with tournments and foruns and ppl discussing about new teams being or not official.
With that said, and not trying to annoy anyone here, I'll just say that IF JJ+BBRC gave their 'green light' to those teams, well then as far as I'm concerned they're as official as they could ever get!
I'm just glad these guys can put their time and effort into this perpetual attempt to get this game 'we' love so much a little further and a little better.
Cheers
A.
smeborg - May 22, 2009 - 02:51 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Experimental Teams
We allow all of these teams in our league here in Christchurch, NZ (I am the commish).
But I have to agree with Ian that these teams are not official.
Galak, I think you need reminding that BB is GW's game. It is not JJ's, or your's or the BBRC's.
And I for one would be quite upset if the Slann team were to become official without figurines from GW.
All the best.
GalakStarscraper - May 22, 2009 - 04:56 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Experimental Teams
smeborg wrote:
Galak, I think you need reminding that BB is GW's game. It is not JJ's, or your's or the BBRC's.
I respectfully disagree.
GW owns only the IP for BB. And barely that most days.
If ever there was a game that succeeds despite the best efforts of its owner to destroy it ... its Blood Bowl.
You don't get to hear the comments that I do from store owners from all over the world that I trade emails with on a weekly basis Smeborg. And how GW won't even allow stores to purchase Blood Bowl merchandise without massive restrictions and barriers that most cannot overcome.
The only reason BB has survived is because its not really GW's game anymore. Its the NAF's, its the BBRC's, its JJ's, its all the tournament and league organizers's, all the miniature companies that have supported fantasy football where GW refuses, and most importantly the players who play it despite the cigarette burns that dad GW keeps leaving on our arms when we go to talk to him. This game is really OUR game ... GW just unfortuntately legally owns the IP. But after all I've seen and dealt with in regards to GW over the last 5 years since the LRB 5.0 project started and all the other pies I've been involved with ... you could never convince me that at this time that BB is GW's game.
I've written the LRB since 3.0. GW doesn't even have the source files for the lastest copy of the rules. They exist only on my computers .... difficult to argue that's its their game when they don't even control the source file for the rulebook.
So yeah Smeborg ... GW owns the IP for BB .... but this stopped being THEIR game a long time ago. Which is why I respectifully don't give a flying fig about what GW says about these 3 teams.
Sorry ... if you think I needed reminded ... I just felt I needed to remind back of why this game is still actually surviving ... heck some could even say thriving.
Galak
Edit by Galak: I left one thing out of the above. I wish more than anything that this was GW's game. I wish they welcomed stores trying to sell the game and the miniatures. I wish they accepted licensing requests from folks trying to help develop and sell support materials. I wish they accepted offers from professional sculptors to donate their time and services (ie for free) to create new figures for the game. I have first hand experience with GW slamming the door on my face with all 3 of the above in just the last 12 months along with hearing the same from multiple others of their similar experiences with the above as well. So my rant is not an anti-GW one. I have nothing against the company in general .... but after all I've seen .... I cannot believe that this is their game anymore or accept someone else trying to remind me that it is.
SBG - May 22, 2009 - 07:00 PM
Post subject:
Amen!
I, for one, am really happy that the BBRC and, in a broader sense, the BB community has kept this game alive. It's annoying me to the highest degree that Star Players don't get their own mini from GW and am thankful that some sculptor do some and I try to encourage them as often as I can.
That is not say that I am always agreeing with what the BBRC does, and Galak and I had a few gentlemany (I think) arguments (some even contributed to actual changes to the rules, I would humbly add), but nonetheless, kudos to them.
Actually, I want to officially thank them for one of my favorite games.
Fred
Doubleskulls - May 25, 2009 - 07:21 AM
Post subject:
Galak - sorry - I didn't mean to imply you were still saying it but I just wanted Darkson not to drag up old posts on the topic.
And I agree BB is very much an orphan child at the moment. Maybe GW will decide to give it some investment but I don't hold out much hope. It doesn't even feel like Cyanide are going with a significant marketing effort. No distributor in Oz at the moment and less than a month to launch.
smeborg - May 25, 2009 - 02:22 PM
Post subject:
Tom - I hope you feel better after getting that off your chest.
I share your deep love of BB, although I have not invested as much of my life in it as you have.
Given that you have chosen to hitch your wagon to a star over which you have little or no control in the long run, may I dare to suggest that you find a way to disengage emotionally from all these issues?
Your health would be better for it.
All the best.
GalakStarscraper - May 25, 2009 - 04:20 PM
Post subject:
smeborg wrote:
Given that you have chosen to hitch your wagon to a star over which you have little or no control in the long run, may I dare to suggest that you find a way to disengage emotionally from all these issues?
You'd be amazed how much I've effected this game in the past (list way too long to type), in the present (GW carrying positional figures ... BBFigs.com combined with Lycos' great efforts), and very likely the future (we wait and see ... I'm sure I'll do something yet to come with all the things I have in motion). 
So it would be silly to disengage ... a decent part of where BB is now is because I've not chosen to disengage at any point in the last 10 years ... so since I've not had a cornary yet from what has come in the last 10 ... I'm thinking the next 10 will be like coasting for me. 
As for getting stuff off my chest ... I posted the double sized version of my reply to you on a private forum to get it off my chest rather than post it in a larger public forum like the NAF. The above post was the calm one.
Galak
StaceyHerbert54 - Jun 10, 2009 - 06:30 AM
Post subject:
Galak I agree with you. Quite frankly, for such an overwhemingly popular game, Blood Bowl does require the efforts of its loyal players to keep it going. Although some new minis have been released recently (Griff Oberwald and The Mighty Zug etc.) some more would be nice. I for one would love a new dwarf team, or just new linemen, and Chaos Dwarves also!
DarkDancer17 - Jun 11, 2009 - 09:43 AM
Post subject:
So far - the new releases look blech to me. I don't like the overly realistic look they are going for.
GalakStarscraper - Jun 11, 2009 - 11:30 AM
Post subject:
DarkDancer17 wrote:
So far - the new releases look blech to me. I don't like the overly realistic look they are going for.
A human being whose wide stance requires a 40mm base is realistic???? 
Galak
DarkDancer17 - Jun 11, 2009 - 12:16 PM
Post subject:
Nah, just the ... art of the sculpt? I don't know quite how to phrase it... 
I like their other "formula" of sculpting to the minis. They seemed to have a bit more humor and character to the way they looked.
The new Griff and Varag, for example, feel as if they were going out of their way to do dramatic action, and failed in making the character's personality?
If that makes sense?
Darkson - Jun 11, 2009 - 02:12 PM
Post subject:
DarkDancer17 wrote:
The new Griff and Varag, for example,
That's not the new Griff, that's the old "new" Griff.
This is the new Griff.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1680002&rootCatGameStyle=
DarkDancer17 - Jun 11, 2009 - 02:17 PM
Post subject:
Well - that's a quite a bit better.
Apocrypha - Jun 12, 2009 - 12:08 PM
Post subject:
The new new Griff sits better with me as well. Doesn't have that drunken falling over movement going on. He looks more dignified and 'veteran'.
Zug still bothers me. His legs are too far apart but that is probably fixed easily enough with some gentle squeezing.
I thought the newest Deathroller sculpt was fantastic. Though WTF - they want $49.50 for that? I swear the last time I looked at that mini it was half that price at best.
Bazman - Jun 13, 2009 - 02:11 AM
Post subject:
I love the new Zug the OTT stance is the humour factor; don't get me wrong I ove the old Zug too, but I think they are releasing some good stuff. I just wish there was a little bit more, but the local stores seem to support BB for veterans nights, promoting tournaments, etc.
Anyone got the link for these new teams?
Thanks
Baz
StoutYoungblood - Jun 15, 2009 - 02:15 PM
Post subject:
StaceyHerbert54 wrote:
Galak I agree with you. Quite frankly, for such an overwhemingly popular game, Blood Bowl does require the efforts of its loyal players to keep it going. Although some new minis have been released recently (Griff Oberwald and The Mighty Zug etc.) some more would be nice. I for one would love a new dwarf team, or just new linemen, and Chaos Dwarves also!
Looking for a new dwarf team? Look no further...
http://www.rolljordan.com/public/store//product_info.php?cPath=21_23_25&products_id=34&osCsid=639h84e7ldl4ui66ml7crujn54
http://www.impactminiatures.net/index.php?option=thdwarf_profile&id=TH_SBT1
Chaos Dwarves:
http://www.impactminiatures.net/index.php?option=brdwarf
GalakStarscraper - Jun 17, 2009 - 12:15 PM
Post subject:
Bazman wrote:
Anyone got the link for these new teams?
Thanks
Baz
http://www.blood-bowl.net/LRB_PBBL/NewTeams2008_LRB5.pdf
And to purchase pre-packed team sets for them:
http://www.bbfigs.com
KarlLagerbottom - Jun 20, 2009 - 06:00 PM
Post subject:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
DarkDancer17 wrote:
So far - the new releases look blech to me. I don't like the overly realistic look they are going for.
A human being whose wide stance requires a 40mm base is realistic????
Galak
I am guessing that this was an effort to make the base/fig more represetative of Zug's STR5.
Lets not forget that this same thing happens in GWs other games. If it's true that these were sculpts done by folks looking for employment with GW...I think it makes sense that they would try to create something that was in line with the efforts of those already on staff.
Apocrypha - Jun 21, 2009 - 10:10 AM
Post subject:
I saw the Zug model in person at the Toronto GD. They had him on display three times. Twice painted, and once in the blister (white backing). Even seeing the model in person totally doesn't dismiss the idea to me that he looks a little silly with his legs that far apart on a 40mm base. Though I will admit that he looks a lot better in person than he did in pictures.