NAF World Headquarters

North America - East Coast Circuit?

Glamdryn - Jan 24, 2012 - 08:01 AM
Post subject: East Coast Circuit?

West and Central/Zlurpee have their circuits all set up and they look epic. Where the hell is the east coast?

I officially volunteer to setup a tracking sheet and take information for upcoming tournaments. Id love to see a prize at the end of the year for the winner as well. I update the google maps project at least once a week, so tracking the circuit would not be very much extra work.

The east coast really only has a Canadian scene in Toronto, Ontario and Montreal, Quebec and then a group in Harrisburg, PA. There aren't very many tournaments outside of these areas.

As per the google maps project here are the tournaments that could qualify for an east coast circuit:
Undead Fouling Formal 2012
Capitol City Kick-Off 2012
Daggerbowl V
Gnome Bowl 2012
Atlantic Coast Charity Cup 2012
Beantown Brouhaha V (Unconfirmed)
Pub Bowl 2012 (Unconfirmed)
Blingtoof's Gitbash 2012 (Unconfirmed)
Deathbowl X (Unconfirmed)
Dragon Bowl 2012 (Unconfirmed)
Four Diamonds Cup 2012 (Unconfirmed)
Golden Sweetbun 2012 (Unconfirmed)
Lakeside Cup 2012 (Unconfirmed)
Orion Cup 2012 (Unconfirmed)
Warpstone Cup VI (Unconfirmed)
Power of 1 / Bongo Bowl (Unconfirmed)
The Challenge of Q'ermitt (Unconfirmed)

So as you can see, there are a shit load of tournaments that can show off our BB skillz. I would even propose that the Chaos Cup, Gen Bowl, Zlurpee Bowl, Spike, and West Coast Quake be considered as overlapping tournaments across all 3 circuits as they are the largest tournies in North America.

Glamdryn - Jan 24, 2012 - 08:48 AM
Post subject:

PROPOSAL:

Copy and modification of ZuitSuit's work (which is excellent by the way):

Official Standings can be found at:

ECGP Standings 2012

To raise the level of competition and encourage travel between east coast North American Blood Bowl communities for tournaments, as well as to encourage additional tournaments to be held, we are continuing the competition in 2012 for the best overall coach in eastern north american tournaments. Any open, NAF sanctioned tournament in eastern North America will be included. These would include, but not limited to:

TBD

The rules will be slightly different this year. I'm trying incentivize and encourage participation and travel between states/provinces for tournament play, while still making it overall a competition for the most dominant coach.

Points will be give for the following:

Part A - Participation:1 point for attending a 1 day event
2 points for a 2 day event

Part B - Traveling: To increase attendance and competition between the many states and provinces of the region, a traveling bonus of 1 point will be awarded for each state/province that you attend a tournament in. You will only receive this extra point once for each state/province. Canada will be broken open into 3 regions:
Toronto, ON
Ottawa, ON
Montreal, QC

Part C: Additional points will be given for final standings in a tourney, determined by the tournament. A tourney will need a minimum of 10 coaches to get these points. Tournaments with 50 participants or more will score x2 points.
1st place: 10 points
2nd place: 8 points
3rd place: 6 points
4th place: 5 points
5th place: 4 points
6th place: 3 points
7th place: 2 points
8th place: 1 point

Tournaments with less than 10 participants will score:
1st place: 5 points
2nd place: 3 points
3rd place: 1 points

Tiebreakers will be determined in this order:
1) Total NAF games won in 2012
2) Total NAF games drawn in 2012
3) Total traveling points
4) Total NAF sanctioned tournaments played in 2012

Prizes:
TBD

Taxal - Jan 24, 2012 - 10:40 AM
Post subject:

You forgot ...

Montreal , Quebec

Power of 1 / Bongo Bowl

- 2 one day tournaments that we hold the same weekend (1 Sat and the other Sun) at the same local.

Jonny_P - Jan 24, 2012 - 11:08 AM
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I know Florida had some tournaments at one point... maybe Old Man Monkey was running those? Just going by memory.

Would be awesome to reach of a goal of at least one BB tournament in every state in the US.

Then of course... go to a tournament in every state! A bit tougher goal... Very Happy

Lizardcore - Jan 24, 2012 - 11:59 AM
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Qermitt?

hasnt been held in 2011, but maybe 2012?

zootsuitjeff - Jan 24, 2012 - 12:37 PM
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Rando was running the East Coast Grand Prix for 2011. Unless he has completely disappeared, you should coordinate with him about 2012...

Lizardcore - Jan 24, 2012 - 12:41 PM
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And maybe, for simplicity, you could have only 2 Canadian regions: Toronto, Cobourg, Niagara falls in one, the other one being Ottawa / Montreal.

Glamdryn - Jan 24, 2012 - 01:33 PM
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Lizardcore wrote:

And maybe, for simplicity, you could have only 2 Canadian regions: Toronto, Cobourg, Niagara falls in one, the other one being Ottawa / Montreal.

If simplicity we are after, I can just push it to State/Province? Itll give people in ottawa and montreal a freebee point, but I think thats ok.

jrock56 - Jan 24, 2012 - 04:45 PM
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Like zuitsuitjeff stated above, Rando was already keeping track of the East Coast version of the Grand Prix and if I'm not mistaken will be announcing the Winner(s) at the CCKO this weekend seeing as both of the top 2 participants will be in attendance. There is already a whole forum topic dedicated to this as well, will track it down and post

Rando - Jan 24, 2012 - 08:18 PM
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Hey Glamdryn, thanks for head's up about this conversation. I was hoping you hadn't forgotten about me! Smile

As far as awards are concerned, like you, I was very keen on making sure that there was something for the victors. I have purchased medals for 2011, 2012, and 2013 (since it was cheaper en masse) each of which is engraved with the words "coach of the year 20xx" on the back and they have grand-prix checkered flags on the front (I was hoping to keep it a surprise until the award ceremony this weekend!)

As far as the absence of the post is concerned, that is easily explained as the first tournament on the East Coast is not for a few days yet I felt I had time to work out the last details of how to deal with tie breakers, which deviate from teh west (more on that below).

I feel quite invested in this so far (not just financially) and I would like to continue to manage the ECGP unless there are any strong objections.

As far as the rules are concerned; my primary interest is in making 2012 comparable to 2011 and so the ECGP will be deviating from the west (as the mid-west has done before us) in that there will be no travel points awarded. I am interested in having players this year track their own progress in comparison to last year's coach of the year who won with 40 points. It's a bar that's been set nicely and I would like to see players try and beat it (at least for this year) on the same grounds as those players had last year.

As always, I think conversation and community is important. Please let me know if you guys have any feedback. If not I will make a 2012 post a sticky on the 27th of January and it will not include the travel bonus. There will also be "Hickling's Law" which factors in being the odd man out in a tie breaker (but only to settle a first place tie).

Ryan

Glamdryn - Jan 25, 2012 - 07:59 AM
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The main thing I'd like to see is the tournaments participating in the circuit before the year starts, so that people can plan if they want to participate or not.

Right now its pretty much a Canadian circuit, which is a shame. If we can show everything right up front then maybe the interest will increase in the states.

Rando, I am fine with you continuing with the ball, but I think everything should be set up by the end of January to make this thing more official. It shouldnt take too much effort. The biggest thing is to contact all of the TOs and ask them if they want to participate and how theyd like to see the circuit run. I also would like to see more activity on the NAF boards.

I think it would be great if in the ticket price of participating circuit touneys a dollar per person went towards prizes for the circuit. It should make TOs and coaches feel more invested in the system. Right now the points really only matter to about 10-15 coaches, which is pretty sad. I'd like to see the interest in a tournament scene jump up quite a bit.

On the topic of points being comparable between years, I think that is a bad reason for not changing the point structure. Right now there are very few tournaments outside of Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Harrisburg. Having comparable points only makes sense if the circuit is relatively static, which we want to not have (we want growth). I think the goal should be to promote more tournaments, not less. We should use the point system to encourage players to spread out and go to far away tournys.

We need more traveling across the border for tournaments.

Lizardcore - Jan 25, 2012 - 09:17 AM
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Couldn't you guys just do it together ?

I guess that using people's motivation toward a project is always positive ?

I wasnt personally favorable to the travel thing, I don't see it as incentive. For the contribution, I guess each tournament could spare 5 bucks total (not 1 per person). It should be enough to make something with it ?

For the points, it doesnt really mater IMO. I dont think people are going to travel to montreal (800 km !!! ) just to get the extra bonus point.

Maybe the 1 day versus 2 day tournament bonuses is a good idea. The points depending on the number of participants is also a good idea.

Anyway, thanks for taking care of this, and thanks for the surprise (a bit spoiled, but that's ok Wink

Rando - Jan 25, 2012 - 02:53 PM
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Hey Glamdryn, It sounds like you are really enthusiastic about trying a few things (like collecting money and adding travel points) which I am not interested in doing. I think you should run the GP for 2012, but let me explain why.

My principal has always encouraged me to try out my crazy ideas in my classroom because he can see how it would probably drive me crazy to NOT do them and I have really benefited from this kind of support (and I think my students have too!). I say, let's have you take it in the direction you want, especially because in this way the community gets to have someone involved from your region and not just the Ottawa region! We will never know otherwise.

I did contact all the TO's over the course of 2011 and the only tournament standings which eluded me were the Tri-State Challenge in NJ, but you can't force people to participate. Maybe you'll have better luck.

Kudos again to Zuitsuitjeff, the very fact that there are discussions like this one happening in the West and Mid-West is testimony to how much fun this is.

Good luck! I hope to play you some time soon!

Ryan

P.S. As for comparison between years, I've always thought that by adding and playing in more tournaments you are simply encouraging people to beat the standard of the previous year by playing in more tournaments than people like Lizardcore, who only needs to show up from time to time and still sits on top due to his high placements. See you soon Lizzy! Smile

*Edited for typos

Lizardcore - Jan 25, 2012 - 03:51 PM
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Rando wrote:

P.S. As for comparison between years, I've always thought that by adding and playing in more tournaments you are simply encouraging people to beat the standard of the previous year by playing in more tournaments than people like Lizardcore, who only needs to show up from time to time and still sits on top due to his high placements. See you soon Lizzy! Smile

Hey ! 6 tournament in 1 year is the most I have ever played since the comeback of bloodbowl tournaments in 2003 Shocked

nick_nameless - Jan 25, 2012 - 07:57 PM
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Last year there was a NAF tournament at I-CON on Long Island, but the only people that showed up were a few of us from DorkaMorka in Boston.

DorkaMorka has a pretty sizeable group of players but we appear to be the only players in the region that are willing to come out of our shell. I have reached out to several local gaming stores and groups trying to drum up interest but keep coming up empty-handed.

I put together a rules packet for a tournament last year, a doubles-team tournament, but it didn't look to go very far when I was failing to get that interest generated.

If the Beantown Brouha gets reborn then the chances of a few other tournies popping up in our area increase. Hopefully those folks will get things running again sometime soon Smile

Glamdryn - Jan 26, 2012 - 10:16 AM
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Rando, I'd like to run this with you if that's alright. Google docs are our friend. I suggest we work to create a doc with all possible east coast tournaments and TO contact information. Then we can mass email everyone and decide on final rules for points and structure for the year. As Lizardcore said the points don't really mean anything. I'd like for that to change, but I also would like the ECGP to be secondary to having a great and relaxed time at tournaments and maybe some great rivalries will unfold outside of local players.

Ill set up a google doc in the near future and post it in this thread for anyone to add their information.

Glamdryn - Jan 26, 2012 - 01:04 PM
Post subject:

Tournament List

Above is a link to the Tournament List for the East Coast Grand Prix. If you are a tournament organizer and would like to have your tournament be a part of the ECGP please add your info.

Tab 2 contains ideas about how the ECGP should function, please add your own.

Rando, please take a look and edit/comment as you see fit.

Rando - Jan 26, 2012 - 07:01 PM
Post subject:

Sounds great Glamdryn, I have a few tournaments (one in Niagara for sure) and contact info to add to that list.

I think it might be good to make the document private since it has personal email addresses, if you keep it public it should contain NAF names only. You and I are even calling each other Glamdryn and Rando right now, liekwise I think the TO column should contain only NAF names. We could have two lists maybe? One for the public and then one for you and I to share which would contain all the info we need for the GP.

I'd love to compare ideas through this "Tab 2" but I can't find it. Can anyone help me out here?

Thanks!
Rando

Glamdryn - Jan 27, 2012 - 07:25 AM
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Rando wrote:

The Google Doc is only accessible by people that click on the link above, so pretty much just NAF folks or passerbys of the site. Im not worried about giving my email out or name. I suggest every TO should have a separate email account for Blood Bowl stuff. If you still think we need a private doc after reading this, I can create one.

At the bottom you should see "Tournament List", "Ideas/Comment", and "Living Rules" as three separate tabs. Just click on Ideas to bring up the discussion of how we could run the ECGP.

Lizardcore - Jan 27, 2012 - 10:37 AM
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Comment added.

For hte follow up between years, you don't have to worry about the scoring system. Just use the scoring system in use and apply it to last year results.

Notorious_jtb - Jan 28, 2012 - 07:07 PM
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Just to weigh in here, I missed this due to focussing on the NATC bidding process.

I have a few thoughts:

I think we have a great thing going here, I want to applaud the efforts of the Grand Prix organisers in 2011! I also want to applaud the Tournament Organisers who sent their results in to be tracked so we could have these great standings!

Awesome that we had a tie in 2011 Laughing

Rando - Jan 28, 2012 - 11:04 PM
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Thanks Glamdryn, I added a few comments but I wanted to summarize my thoughts here in greater detail.

I see the ECGP evolving, for sure, but over the next 2-3 years. 2012 really strikes me as a year to promote the ECGP rather than use the ECGP to promote the larger tournaments and to design it to do so.

My vision for 2012 is for it to be a "Spread the word" year. I find the appeal of the 2011 rule set is that it can be explained in one sentence. I find this is a great way to promote it and get players excited about it. What were the 2011 rules are described in the document under "Part C" which I find a little confusing because I feel that if it isn't part A it sould really be the whole thing.

Of the 14 tournaments in the ECGP in 2011 there were 4 which had only 10 players. I believe that the "cut off" should be 10 and not 12. IT doesn't suit our community.

My concern with multiple means of garnering points (travel, number of days of the tournament, size of tournament etc) is that it starts to feel like I am doing my taxes, I feel that the ECGP should be about fostering a sense of community and encouraging conversation rather than choosing which tournament to go to because it will earn you the most points ...

... with this I am concerned that we may penalize the small tournaments (10 players) by awarding so many points to the large ones. The idea behind the ECGP is to create a thread that flows through the whole season, it is not a promotional vehicle to get more people to the large tournaments.

I do not believe that a player will choose to travel to a tournament simply for these points, travel points or not, this is really just for fun.

To answer a comment from the document, in 2011 the initials of non-NAF members were used. We had 99 players (not all of whom were NAF members and so I strongly believe that we should track all players in a tournament, if we do not do this then some tournaments might skip giving 10 points to the first place player because they are non-NAF ... or worse their would be 10 points awarded to the top NAF player. This does not seem to be something that would encourage players to join the NAF. The ECGP is not a recruitment tool for the NAF in my view.

My concern with prizes is that some players who do not care about the ECGP will wonder why their money is going towards these prizes ... this is like a small government type of question Smile

... and it also places a burden on the TO to send out the money to the ECGP. It simply doesn't seem worth it, especially since the medals for "Coach of the year" have all been made for the next few years.

It's great to see so many ideas out here. It should be a good year!

R.

Glamdryn - Jan 31, 2012 - 08:40 AM
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Taking Rando's and JTB's comments, I have pushed in the results of CCKO and edited the scoring structure.

As I told JTB via PM, I created this topic to fuel debate and transparency in the ECGP discussion. Anyone can edit the discussion google doc. If you put your contact info into that spreadsheet you are letting whomever clicks on the link to read that information. The great thing about google docs is that as a community we can share the responsibilities of editing them and keeping them up to date. So whomever would like editable access to the Standings just PM me and Ill include you on the edit list.

I do not want to steal anyone's thunder, but rather to include whomever wants to participate in the structure and formula of the ECGP to do so.

So please if you think something is dumb and going in the wrong direction speak up and make a change.

ECGP Tournament List and Discussion
ECGP Standings 2012
ECGP Standings 2011

Lizardcore - Jan 31, 2012 - 03:03 PM
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Good job with the file Glamdryn !

I like the final scoring system, and I like the fact that we have a good visibility of who is who, who is NAF...

Maybe put the links in your forum signature, and in the first post of the thread ? or maybe even start a new thread just about the East cost 2012 rankings ?

btw, I'll try to post pictures of the medal Rando kindly gave us Smile

Rando - Jan 31, 2012 - 09:43 PM
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Looks like the ECGP is in good hands!

PG is Bellowthunderslam
RP is Talons
SL is Grog The Impaler
MG is Dtleaon72488

CV and GM do not have NAF names yet.

Thanks!

Rando - Jan 31, 2012 - 09:47 PM
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I notice that you have under rules a requirement that everyone needs to belong to the NAF to be in the ECGP. I still find this strange. If a non NAF member wins first place (10 points) and isn't included than the ECGP is actually going to be short 10 points at the end of the year. Those points shouldn't disappear

OR

The top placing NAF player is considered to be first and gets the 10 points even if he actually only placed 3rd. This again makes it seem strange to not include non NAF members because the rankings will not actually reflect how coaches placed ... only how they placed relative to other NAF members.

As I mentioned above in 2011 the name of the coach (say Ryan M.) is put in the list. I am still not clear as to why this needs to be NAF exclusive give these arguments.

zootsuitjeff - Jan 31, 2012 - 11:59 PM
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My personal take on naf requirement: I require WCGP tourneys to be NAF approved just to make sure they are open to everyone and not the "2 guys in the basement" sort of deal. but i never require people to actually be in NAF to get points, i just encourage.

Glamdryn - Feb 01, 2012 - 07:45 AM
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Rando wrote:

It is in the discussions tab, but not in the actually scoring right now, unless there is consensus. It seems like most people think that there should not be an NAF requirement. So youll see in the standings spreadsheet that you have two columns, Name and NAF ID /Initials. All players will be shown here.

Lizardcore - Feb 01, 2012 - 07:54 AM
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zootsuitjeff wrote:

make sure they are open to everyone and not the "2 guys in the basement" sort of deal.

OMG, could we please keep talking about bloodbowl and not your private life Very Happy

Glamdryn - Feb 01, 2012 - 08:02 AM
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I think the Standings sheet looks good. But the scoring structure is not set in stone. If anyone has any ideas, chime in. If you know of people that don't check the boards often, ask them what they think.

One thing that as a community we need to work on, is submitting our tourneys onto the NAF site as soon as possible to give everyone a heads up as to the upcoming years tournament scene.

If you are a Tournament Organizer and you are planing to throw a tournament this year and want to submit results to the ECGP, at least shout out the name, location, and month of when you plan on doing it, all of this info can be tentative, but it'll be a good start to showing potential players of the east that there is a large and active community.

If anyone wants editing access to the Standings sheet please PM me. I think there should be more than just one person who has access.

runki_khrum - Feb 03, 2012 - 01:34 PM
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In order for results to be recorded in the NAF coaches records, I believe both coaches must be NAF members. So if I beat a non member coach it's like it never happened. ( could be good if I lose, though.) If it's a NAF sanctioned tourney all coaches should be NAF members IMHO. For instance all NHL players are members of the NHLPA.

Glamdryn - Feb 03, 2012 - 01:46 PM
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runki_khrum wrote:

I think the consensus so far (Rando and zoot have chimed in) is that the Tournaments should be NAF Approved and there should be pressure/incentive to join the NAF when you compete, but if you choose not to you will still show up in the ECGP standings.

My thoughts are if you are good enough to win, youll most likely already be an NAF member. I think when the circuit gets bigger NAF membership might be a requirement, but the tournament scene is so small right now there is no reason to scare anyone away with requirements.

Glamdryn - Feb 08, 2012 - 07:17 AM
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Anymore ECGP tournaments to add to the list?

Glamdryn - Feb 27, 2012 - 08:34 AM
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This is what I have so far for upcoming tournies for the ECGP. Any others?

Upcoming ECGP Tournaments:
Canadian Open 2012 (Toronto, ON) - March 10th/11th
Challenge of Q'ermitt 2012 (Mississauga, ON) - April 21st/22nd
Gnome Bowl 2012 (Pooler, GA) - April 21st
Four Diamonds Cup 2012 (Harrisburg, PA) - May 19th
Golden Sweetbun 2012 (Montreal, QC) - May 26th/27th
Atlantic Coast Charity Cup 2012 (Virginia Beach, VA) - July 14th
Lakeside Cup VI (Cobourg, ON) - July 28th/29th
Pub Bowl 2012 (Endicott, NY) - Oct 17th/18th
Blingtoof's Gitbash 2 (Toronto/Milton, ON) - Nov 10th/11th

Unknowns:
Beantown Brouhaha
Orion Cup
Death Bowl
Power of 1 / Bongo Bowl
Warpstone
Dragon Bowl
Philly Fall Brawl
MidPenn Massacre

Glamdryn - May 10, 2012 - 10:17 AM
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Question that entered my brain. Should an organizer of a tournament be allowed to get points for the ECGP? Should it be limited to participation points, placement points, or should there be a different way to score here. Example: organizers do not collect participation nor placement points, but instead get 5 points for organizing a tournament. Something along those lines.

What do you think?

Also, Im not suggesting we change anything now, but just opening the floor to discussion.

Spazzfist - May 10, 2012 - 12:22 PM
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Glamdryn wrote:

What do you need to know about Deathbowl and Warpstone?

Glamdryn - May 11, 2012 - 10:47 AM
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Sorry that list is very old. Ignore it!