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House Rules - Alternative Ageing system - FITNESS

Indigo - Feb 17, 2003 - 03:44 AM
Post subject: Alternative Ageing system - FITNESS

Fair enough, it's reproduced from TBB, but a wider audience does no-one any harm...

Big article - read it a few times before replying and posting your opinion. I will be submitting this to both Fanatic and the NAF submissions section.

An idea I have been throwing around that has NOT been playtested very much yet - it's just a little more than a theory!

What I propose involves adding a new column to team rosters to indicate a player's fitness level. Initially, all players start at 10 (or some other value, tweaked according to playtesting).

When a player suffers one of the following, their fitness level is adjusted accordingly:

Knocked Out = -1
Badly Hurt = -2
Serious Injury = -3
Killed = -5
"Rested" = +2
Apothecary = +2

The first three are self explanatory, each injury like that reduces the player's fitness rating. I have included a value for killed to represent a death that is averted by an apothecary - even saved, the player will still be sore!

If a player is rested, they CANNOT be placed in the dugout and used for the match, but they regain +2 fitness to the maximum value (10 in this case).

Before a match, a coach can use their apothecary to give ONE player intensive physio, and the player recovers 2 fitness and CAN play in the match. However, the apothecary cannot then be used during the match.
** I also toyed with the idea of allowing a team ONE physio coach (assistant coach) to give them this benefit before every match but it might be too powerful - maybe physio coach = +1 fitness?

Fitness plays no part in the game until a player reaches or exceeds 0. When this happens, roll on a table very similar to the aging table to see what permanent effect of exhaustion has occurred. Note that these effects are in addition to any effects suffered on the pitch. For each number below 0, that value is added to the exhaustion roll (e.g. -3 = 2d6 + 3)

Note that a player with fitness of 0 or less can still play in matches, but every one they do results in a roll on the exhaustion table.

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I'd appreciate any comments on this idea. I know that at first glance it does not appear to have any effect on limiting high TR teams, but it does in a subtle way.

If a coach has his star player on 2 fitness, they might be tempted to rest them more often to regain fitness, rather than risk an injury. This means that, although the TR is constant, the good players don't actually play for risk of injury - it is thereby limiting the prowess of such teams. This system also has the advantage of allowing new handicap effects to alter fitness levels, e.g. Virus - d3 random players lose 5 fitness points due to a stomach bug.

The trouble is, ageing works too fast - players dont get a walking stick after 3 matches cos of old age, it is because of injury! This system relates the degradation of players to their antics on the field.

This allows the development of stars, while at the same time limiting their progression through forced rest periods. It will be rare cases indeed if a coach can have his entire squad fully fit.

=========

I know it has problems though, as it is possible for players to be totally untouched by this system. However, if a superstar player with 7 skill rolls is on the field, as good as he may be, he's a target and eventually his fitness will decrease to the point of injury.

Although this may seem to favour high AV teams, it is fair to say that the faster, lower AV teams tend to have more skills to limit the number of knockdowns (and resulting injuries). Also, a well coached, low AV team can often escape punishing damage by simply dodging away!

Anyway, PM, mail or reply to me to let me know what you think....

There are plenty of 'animated' discussions of relevant ageing systems, based on EXP or injury at www.talkbloodbowl.com in the General Chat section.

Lucy - Feb 17, 2003 - 04:15 AM
Post subject:

Actually, me thinks I'm the only coach who likes the ageing roll and consequences it brings.
I hated the AF idea and was glad it was removed. I still think it's a fun concept which is hated and loved by me.
Several players in my teams have stat. decreases and more have niggles. But so do my opponents. I still think this adds to the flavour, unfortunately, I'm alone Confused

Lucy

Squiggoth - Feb 17, 2003 - 04:43 AM
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You're not alone!!!
The only problem with Ageing is it's name; if it had been called "wear and tear of your player" or something like that I don't think it would have caused so much consternation. I think it's rather logical that, in a game where Ogres frequently jump up and down on you, that very soon you will become somewhat weaker than when you started your career - though it has nothing to do with ageaing as such.

Deathwing - Feb 17, 2003 - 07:45 AM
Post subject: Re: Alternative Ageing system - FITNESS

Indigo wrote:

Fair enough, it's reproduced from TBB, but a wider audience does no-one any harm...

Have to disagree with that, a wider audience is one thing, simple repetition is another. Personally, I don't particularly want to have to try and follow two seperate discussions on the same subject (and in particular something this specific ) in different places. Points raised on one forum may have already been addressed by others on the other forum. It's gonna end up a mess and very confusing. Don't forget there is a vast crossover of coaches on here and TBB. I don't think thread repetition is at all desirable.

Quote:

There are plenty of 'animated' discussions of relevant ageing systems, based on EXP or injury at www.talkbloodbowl.com in the General Chat section.

Precisely. A link to the specific thread would be preferable IMO, people are then free to read the whole thread, including argument and counter argument and contribute should they so desire.

biggdork - Feb 17, 2003 - 08:14 AM
Post subject:

I don't frequent TBB, and probably won't, so I like hearing about your system here. Either way, its an interesting system. Seeing as I have had a hard time playing in any leagues that last for more than a few games, I really have no experience in ageing to compare it to, but it sounds more interesting than ageing anyway

Have you used it in a league yet?

Deathwing - Feb 17, 2003 - 09:46 AM
Post subject:

biggdork wrote:

I don't frequent TBB, and probably won't, so I like hearing about your system here.

Fair enough, but the majority of users of these forums to date are regulars over there. People just aren't going to contribute to the same discussion in 2 different places. If you're interested in this system, why wouldn't you be interested in the pages of accompanying discussion that a lot of the members here have contributed to?
Would you like to see all the interesting ideas over there repeated over here for those that don't frequent TBB? After all, it doesn't take a whole lot of effort to click on a link and read, does it?

Apologies if I've come across a little strong, I'm not intending to bust anybody's chops here, I just see parallel discussions on different forums (that have a lot of users in common) as counter productive. How long until somebody pastes a post from one forum to another? Do we want to go that route? If not, coaches will choose which of the discussions to take part in, and that puts forums in direct competition.
I just don't personally believe that's the way to go. We need to be offering something extra and/or a little different to our members, not simply repeating (and competing with) what's already out there.
Ah well, just my opinion of course, I'll butt out now.

Indigo - Feb 18, 2003 - 03:56 AM
Post subject: Re: Alternative Ageing system - FITNESS

Deathwing wrote:

There are plenty of 'animated' discussions of relevant ageing systems, based on EXP or injury at www.talkbloodbowl.com in the General Chat section.

Precisely. A link to the specific thread would be preferable IMO, people are then free to read the whole thread, including argument and counter argument and contribute should they so desire.

Fair enough, I'll have it removed. But TBB was down a lot yesterday and I couldn't find the link to paste it!

smeborg - Feb 18, 2003 - 07:23 PM
Post subject:

I dislike (well, hate) ageing, and so do the coaches that I play with.

Although I have asked this question before on the net, nobody has given me a serious answer:

WHY DO WE NEED AGEING?

Call it ageing or something else, it just complicates the game, adds nothing of value and creates random havoc (newbies are unlikely to be impressed when getting a niggling injury or stat decrease on their first skill advance).

Please help me - I would genuinely like to know why we need ageing, and what people think it adds to the game.

Cheers

Smeborg the Fleshless

Grumbledook - Feb 19, 2003 - 06:26 AM
Post subject:

WIthout aging there is no curb on keeping team ratings from going far above the 300 mark, which is the magic number for a superteam like the reavers.

I also think its fun to addit to long term leagues, takes more coaching skill to keep your team good while continuing to keep bring new players in. The same players can't keep playing for ever and ever, take 1 turners how often to you get to hit them.

ZanzerTem - Feb 19, 2003 - 11:19 PM
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I hate aging. Why? Because my Orc team has a Blitzer with TWO niggles, and this was after their FIRST game.

Only in Bloodbowl is something this stupid allowed. Some of the rules I tend to disagree with Smile

dlb1969 - Feb 20, 2003 - 09:52 AM
Post subject: Re: Alternative Ageing system - FITNESS

I think this would work using the same or as you stated similar table for permanent injuries/health problems. I think maybe the name should be health instead of fitness though, but that's not that big a deal.

jrm25 - Feb 25, 2003 - 12:04 AM
Post subject:

BloodbasherMasher wrote:

Excuse my ignorance, please - are you using a rule variant or an older rule? A few of us in Flagstaff have just started playing BB, using the LRB from the Fanatic website, and I'm puzzled: the way I read it, a player can only receive a niggle after receiving a Serious Injury, which puts them out of the current game, and causes them to miss the next one as well. How did this player get back into that first game? Did you have an apothecary, etc...? Just wondering if we've missed something crucial here, thanks -

Indigo - Feb 25, 2003 - 07:22 AM
Post subject:

because you can gain a niggle from a serious injury, and then from an ageing roll. It looks like that blitzer scored a few times, enough to get 6 SPP, then was pasted...

jrm25 - Feb 25, 2003 - 07:40 AM
Post subject:

Thanks, Indigo, I didn't think of that - only one player (of four teams) gained enough SPP to gain a skill (and therefore risk aging), in our first games and it wasn't my opponent or myself.

We're adding the rules as we go, to make it easier to understand; so for the first game there were no handoffs or fouls allowed, which really limits how many SPP a player can get in a game.

I imagine that would be distressing to have a player do well enough in the first game to earn a skill, but suffer aging as well as an injury niggle. Condolences to Bloodbasher Masher on the snake-eyes roll!