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Strategy and Tactics - Human vs. Wood Elves
Indigo - Sep 10, 2003 - 03:37 AM
Post subject: Human vs. Wood Elves
I'm playing Humans in tournaments this year, and my bogey team are wood elves... I've not managed to win or even draw a single game against them. No matter how I try to play - offensive, defensive, mixed - I still get panned.
I've tried defending in depth, but it simply allows the wood elves to advance far enough up the pitch in one turn to have a pretty easy chance of scoring in their next turn. Likewsie, playing "in their face" inevitably leads to them getting through and running straight past my backfield players.
I've tried tailoring my team to cause casualties but this has tended not to work, even with an ogre.
I've played against elves with other teams and not faired too badly - chaos are not too bad at kicking their heads in, and skaven/welfs are capable of playing the same game as them - it's just my human team that has the problems!
So any good ideas/general principles out there?
Tutenkharnage - Sep 10, 2003 - 06:11 AM
Post subject:
Tourney teams, 100 TR, I'd stick with something like this:
* Pick on his Catchers with your Blitzers.
* "Pinball" his players on your Blitzes. In other words, if you have a choice between two different targets, choose the one who can be pushed back into a Block if you fail to knock him down.
* Ignore his Wardancers until you can pinball them.
* Stick your liners in front of his. Force him to dodge and he'll roll a one sooner rather than later.
Hope that helps.
-Chet
Doubleskulls - Sep 10, 2003 - 06:29 AM
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And if you ever see a WD on the floor, foul him.
Rookie WDs I never find that hard. Just run a loose cage at them using your blitzers to block them out of the way. You've got the MA that he can't shut you down easily by backing off 1 square.
lackey - Sep 10, 2003 - 10:02 AM
Post subject:
Tutenkharnage wrote:
* Pick on his Catchers with your Blitzers.
Do this early, and don't do it by halves. Send in 3+ players per catcher (to get 3 dice, and to make their escape difficult).
Yavatol - Sep 10, 2003 - 10:40 AM
Post subject:
lackey wrote:
Do this early, and don't do it by halves. Send in 3+ players per catcher (to get 3 dice, and to make their escape difficult).
Don't overdo it, he'll just score with another one that will end the drive and free the guy you've just marked with 3+ men.
Try leaving a gap in the middle and encourage him to go through there. Then make a pincer move on him.
Try to distrupt his 2 turn score as best as you can.
Remember WE coaches are very nervous when forced to make 3+ rolls (I know I am 
)
lackey - Sep 10, 2003 - 10:52 AM
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Yavatol wrote:
Don't overdo it, he'll just score with another one that will end the drive and free the guy you've just marked with 3+ men.
Then mark them all with 3 men 
Okay, so this tactic does need to be limited to the times when your opponent has only sent 2/3 players into position to score. But I've found in the past that focusing 1/2 my team on possible scorers, while the other half holds the rest of the opposing team at the half-way line does work. For dwarf vs. HE, and a few other teams, not tried it with human vs. WE...
Indigo, how do you fare with the human team against skaven?
Khankill - Sep 10, 2003 - 11:13 AM
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Well Indigo,
I wish I could add some good advice, but I like you have a tough time against wood elves with my humans. Strange as it is, I have a better record against them with my halflings.
Indigo - Sep 10, 2003 - 12:58 PM
Post subject:
I tend to not have as much trouble with skaven as a lower AG means I can at least have TZs blocking off scoring avenues. Against Welfs this rarely works.
I've tried the "gang up on catcher" idea, but not conciously with 3 dedicated players. might be worth a shot.
another problem I have is they easily tend to pull my formation out of shape, as I move to one side of the pitch to guard against a breakthrough, but their sheer speed means they are past me and down the other wing the following turn...
AnthonyTBBF - Sep 10, 2003 - 02:47 PM
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When Welfs get the ball, they are gonna score. Just make sure you make him pay for the TD with a trail of bodies, and make sure you'll be able to score back! If you can get the upper hand in numbers your laughing.
Khaine - Sep 10, 2003 - 04:31 PM
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I have to admit that I've been absent from the game for a bit, *Cough* 10 Years *Cough*, But on wood elf catchers I temd to agree on Overkill. Eventually <or inevitably> your going to run into a blodgey Catcher who despite all your efforts is going to cause havok. Sending in 3db against him will greatly increse your chances of getting something wortth having as a roll. While commiting 3 to this tactic is a serious gamble the more times you put the catcher on his tree hugging backside, the more chance you have of cleaning his clock or punching his ticket. I do try to play overlapping defense against WE and setting 3 on the line with enough tackle zones covering everywhere to make it difficult even for Tricksey Elvess to get by. The main thing to remember when playuing WE IMHO is that they can't score if they are smashed into a fine power or watching little birdies fly around their head. I would also suggest bringing you lucky rabbits foor, horseshoe, lock of hair, fingernail clippings, voodoo dolls, and severed orc heads and rub them all generously for good dice rolls. No matter what against Dodgy Elvess your going to need it .
CoachGrodd - Sep 11, 2003 - 09:46 AM
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It might not be a horrible idea to think more like an orc coach when you play woodies. Try for the 2-1 game. If you're worried about the elves stretching your formations out, then keep your players in position. And just make them roll dice, because eventually they will toss a 1, and the muy expensivo wood elf players probably translates into them not having a whole lot of re-rolls (thus why I use skaven instead.)
SuM - Sep 11, 2003 - 05:18 PM
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I have to agree on the over lapping defensive positioning...
If he wants to dodge thru 5 to 6 Squares so be it...
I made a Jpg of a pitch, with this defense, but I can't post till I get home...
OK I got home...
Here is the link...
http://www.warhammer40k.com/members/wh40k/sum/PitchWEs.bmp
phinal - Oct 30, 2003 - 05:46 AM
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sorry bout the ressurection of this old post but i'm going to be playing a woodelf player with my humans this weekend. i played a friendly game against him yesterday and his WDancers are evil. both of them have side step and coupled with dodge and block and leap i found it near impossible to do anything to them. of coarse you could blame my luck. i had almost 100% success at getting through their armour then proceeded to roll 8's and 9's. then he proceeded to roll 4+ for all of them since he scored right away. as of right now i don't possess the skills required to deal with his team and i doubt i ever will. the only thing i can think of that'll help me againt him is'bully' skills, such as pile-on or something of that nature. if i get someone with tackle then he'll just leap out of that tackle zone. and i can't really rely too much on him failing a dodge since his scorers (wardancers) have dodge and don't roll too many 1's as he's making his way threw my team. he has so far crushed everyone he has faced and besides praying for only 
's and then 10+'s for injury. i'm going to try the defense SuM provided as i can see where they puts anyone into a bunch of tackle zones but with such easy dodge outs he more than likely get passed it without too much trouble. i think i'll just pray for stuff on the kick off table to kill his guys. the only things that i seemed to get yesterday were a couple re-rolls because of the cheerleader one and then the assistanct coach one. i'm thinking about keeping my strength 4 linemen towards the back of the pitch to get a two blockdice blitz the only problem is i have to make sure i got a re-roll since only will do anything to his wardancer and if i get 
or 
he'll just end up sidesteping closer to the endzone.
Indigo - Oct 30, 2003 - 06:43 AM
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when I played a wood elf team at Spiky I had a clear plan in mind. When I received, I'd hold the ball with my thrower to negate the strip balling WDs. I then advanced 4 squares up the field at most, but sometimes moving sideways. This allowed me to kick the crap out of the opposing team so I could score at the very end. I'm happy to say it worked like a charm, although luck played it's part, and the final score was a whopping CENSORED with a staggering CENSORED casualties to me.
Tutenkharnage - Oct 30, 2003 - 10:20 AM
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The best "bully" skill against Wood Elves is Tackle, followed by Dirty Player. Whether he can make the dodge away from your tackler is somewhat irrelevant - if the tackler can knock down the Wardancer on a blitz, it's usually moot.
-Chet
Kheldar - Nov 04, 2003 - 06:12 AM
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@SuM
why is your midfield 8 squares in width? Shouldn''t it be 7?
Rest is standart anti minus setup i play it too against wood elfs, but I'm used to setup my wings one square closer to the end zone against a quick snap.
Khaine - Nov 04, 2003 - 10:47 AM
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I play a strong line defense against elves for one simple reason... If he misses a dodge I'm going to make him pay for it on the line. My ONLY viable strategy with elves is to crush soo many of them that I can score easily without having to worry too much about being caught. I will throw as many tackler on them as I can and then add tackle zones and try to "bully" them to one side and run down the opposite line. Is it subtle? Heck no. Does it work. Most of the time . Sometimes I will have a hard time getting all the elves trapped. But the other option is straight up the middle and pray the leapy bitz <read Wardancer> doesn't ballet over my defenders and smack my ball carrier. I have seen so many tactics for vs elves it's insane. Although I think I might start asking you about how you beat the elves you played 2-1 phinal. I know you said good luck but .