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Strategy and Tactics - Are you a "SPP Counter" or ...
SuM - Oct 03, 2003 - 03:37 AM
Post subject: Are you a "SPP Counter" or ...
Are you a "SPP Counter" or ...
Wed. Afternoon I played a game in our League...
(We dusted off many of the Old Teams, that most aren't playing anymore, and team that are maybe going to be in play someday...)
My Opponent was playing a Human Team...
He was weirded out, cuz I was looking at my roster saying to myself... Need 1 more SPP to level her up...
2 more players on my team are equal to my Blitzers...
I won't say no more...
OK, Well... to play Zons in a Competive Style, "Dodge" Combine with "Block" is Lethal... Yeah, my Armor BLOWS, But Knocking me down is a little harder with that Combo... Unless, I play the BANE of the Amazons, the DANG DWARVES!!!!
Beginning of the season, my wins are low, but my TR is nothing to sneeze at... 125, which places me in the top 5 out of 16 players with TR...
My Record is 0-1-2... Few more games, and then "Watch out NOW!!!"
Then there is another guy that is playing a "Necromantic Team", that his Werewolf is getting huge amounts of SPP, and no one else is getting any...
One unlucky Block and dice roll he could drop from the top of the Pile...
I believe it comes down to either you want a Balanced Team...
Making you a "SPP Counter".
- or -
You rely to heavily on a select few players on your team to take you to victory... but that can be the Downfall of your team... One good block and it could cripple your team for that match or maybe the whole season...
So which are you????
Our League Site... if you wanna look!
http://www.theadventurersguild.com/bloodbowl
Indigo - Oct 03, 2003 - 05:34 AM
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I try to balance out the SPPs my team gets, and deliberatly choose players who could gain a skill if an action is successful, although with my human team I generally get one catcher who scores loads. Once he's got a few skills it's hard NOT to use him to score the rest and win.
With my chaos team it's MUCH more balanced. In fact, until my last game (where I beat Dan Titan 3-1, injured 5 players - 3 RIPs!) all my players had SPPs but only one had actually got a skill.
noodle1978uk - Oct 03, 2003 - 05:42 AM
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I'm NOT an SPP counter. I try - but I send in the best players to do the job... Which means I get one or two players VERY good - and I end up relying on them...
A high risk strategy but sometimes it pays off...
I'd say I was too busy trying to win to count SPPs
John meanwhile, sitting atop the league every season 
is an SPP counter and ends up with good strength in depth
Tutenkharnage - Oct 03, 2003 - 06:34 AM
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Before each game, I examine my roster looking for good opportunities to upgrade my team. The first thing I do? I count the number of "MVP-eligible" players on my team. This is a tally of all players who will gain a skill with an MVP award. In the MBBL, I consider 50% an excellent number for my Amazons; on my Chaos Pact team, anything from 25-50% is good, because we award an extra MVP for winning the game instead of an extra 10,000 gps.
Of course, I also look to see which players are close - but "close" is defined by each player's skill set. For example, a Goblin who needs 4 SPPs can't really be counted on for a completion and a touchdown - but if that Goblin is a Dirty Player, as mine is, I can hunt for a couple casualties. (Apologies to those of you still using the old fouling rules and not handing out Casualties for boots!) Similarly, a Lineman with Tackle and Mighty Blow isn't about to pick up a pair of Completions - a Casualty is his ticket to those last 2 Star Player Points.
Once the game is underway, I rarely try to "force" the play if it means making a few dicey rolls. I'd much rather send the best players for the ball. In my Chaos Pact team's first season, the best player quickly became my Skaven Kicker, who picked up MA +1 and AG +1 shortly after joining the team. Once he got Dodge...well, he scored. A lot. This caused most opponents to figure that I was reliant on him, so they went after him. A lot. No one ever got him. Eventually, a few other players developed rather nicely:
* A Beastman got Block and ST +1
* A Lineman got Sure Hands and AG +1
* A Lineman got Tackle and AG +1
* The Beastman at the top of list later gained AG +1
Armed with a quartet of AG +1 players, my Skaven Kicker is practically an afterthought. Every player on my team contributes as best he can.
I play Amazons in the MBBL, so I understand the value of getting some differentiation on a squad. That team isn't primed for points, however. I have a Catcher with Block and Sure Feet; another Catcher with ST +1, Block, and Side Step; and a Linewoman with Block, AG +1, and MA +1. Those players have accounted for most of my touchdowns. You might think that's dangerous, but it's actually rather safe. They handle the ball much better than anyone else on the team! I'm not about to risk 3+ passes and 3+ catches to gain a single SPP for a single player unless that player will certainly gain a skill with the Completion and - this is the important part - the pass won't cost me the game if it falls incomplete. Accordingly, one of these players usually ends up with the ball, and they rarely (if ever) give it up to a "lesser light."
But when I hear "SPP counter," I think of the Old Days. I think of Griff and his fellow Star Players grabbing the ball and rushing downfield before the coach spends 30 seconds poring over his roster to determine which of his scrubs should take the handoff for the touchdown. I rarely see coaches do that these days. The re-rolls just aren't there. Neither are the stars. And if your best player has the ball, he's probably going to finish the play.
-Chet
noodle1978uk - Oct 03, 2003 - 07:23 AM
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We still allow 4 star players - but it doesn't happen in our league either (cos stars in our league can't use team rerolls - they aren't team players - too busy signing autographs and generally poncing to actually practice...
- Griff is (even ) worse now - "3+ leap anyone? No reroll?))
And you're right - that sort of thing doesn't happen any more - just too risky!
SBG - Oct 03, 2003 - 07:28 AM
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Quote:
(Apologies to those of you still using the old fouling rules and not handing out Casualties for boots!)
Do you mean that we now allow SPP for fouling ? I thought LRB stated otherwise!!! But I would like that !
Fred
Tutenkharnage - Oct 03, 2003 - 09:14 AM
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SBG wrote:
Do you mean that we now allow SPP for fouling ? I thought LRB stated otherwise!!! But I would like that !
The LRB doesn't allow it. My league (the NFL) does. Mind you, we've made a few small tweaks in the fouling game:
1. No Eye
2. DP is +2 to AV only (whether assisting or fouling)
3. No automatic +1 to AV for fouling
But the system is gorgeous. And unbreakable.
Anyway, that's somewhat off topic 
-Chet
Gertwise - Oct 03, 2003 - 12:50 PM
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I always count SPP's. I play a lot of orc and skaven teams and hardly ever get a blitzer or a GR get more than 2 skills ahead of the others. If I have a lineman that's a TD or a completion away from getting a skill then I try to put him in situations where he will get that.
I hardly ever have a player that's in the top 10 of SPP's in the league, but I have a well balanced team that is hard to beat.
Chris - Oct 03, 2003 - 03:00 PM
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Nope. i just try and win first, and after having built up a lead/massacred the opposition do i try and be SPP tactical. Saying that SPP's tend to be fairly scattered around my players, as i have only a vague grasp of what they can do and tend to try and pull things off with completely inappropiate individuals cnstantly. I think we need models a foot high to be used in the game. (In my ogre team - the biggest team I have - all the ogres got block nearly simultaneously, appart from one chap who ended up with ag 3 and pro!)
Darkson - Oct 03, 2003 - 04:08 PM
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I try to count SPP's, but always seem to end up with 1-3 players so much better than the rest. For example, one of my Norse Blitzers has MB, PO and tackle, and has more Cas than the other 3 bitzers put together. I don't go out of the way to give them to him, but when it's a 1-on-1 blitz to take down a ball carrier, I know which of the 4 I'd rather hit them with.
And I really try to spread the SPP's around the Vamp team, but the thralls are useless (at least mine ), so the Vamps normally end up picking up all the in ame SPP's, leaving the poor thralls to beg for the MVP's.
dwarfcoach - Oct 03, 2003 - 06:30 PM
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Well to be honest it is like the old saying
"Money attracts money"
or
"Success attracts success"
.. when you get somene who improves then you will naturally be more tactically inclined to use him in the future to further your success as he is better then your standard guy....
I generally look at a my roster at the start of the game and if there is someone who is near ' the next level' then I will try to put them somewhere within my 'begin of down set up' that will enhance their chance of gaining that little bit of experience they need. Then that it is! All I can normally do to then is keep my eye on players that are either:
A) Beating me to death (Orcs / Khemri / Necromatics / Chaos)
B) Running rings around my slow-ass players (Any kind of Elf team / Lizardmen / Annoying-furryass-Skaven)
It never generally occurs to me who has what unless I am out-numbering the enemy so I can afford to take my eyes off the ball...
neoliminal - Oct 03, 2003 - 06:50 PM
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I always found the coaches who targeted certain players with skill advancement to be a bit beardy. It was worse in 3rd edition because the handicap table was a much bigger factor.
If you give a player the ball because he needs the 3 SPP's from the TD to gain a skill, then in my opinion you are playing the mechanic and not the game. No coach says to himself "I need Frank to score a Touch Down, it will make him dodge better."
Unfortunately the game lends itself to this type of Min/Max'ing and the better coaches learn to play this way to improve their league teams.
John -
Gertwise - Oct 03, 2003 - 09:36 PM
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Quote:
I always found the coaches who targeted certain players with skill advancement to be a bit beardy
Hmmm....I don't consider it beardy at all to try to keep like players fairly even. Why wouldn't I score with a different GR or Orc Blitzer instead of having that 1 go to guy? If he's taken out for whatever reason, you'd be hosed.
I don't risk losing a game to do it, but I'll put the players who need skills in a spot where they are more likely to get the SPP's.
Cervidal - Oct 04, 2003 - 04:12 AM
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Well... the difficulty in trying to play the game instead of the game mechanic is that team training is linked to team performance.
After reading the recent article on Blood Bowl 7's I really noticed this. In that, just about everyone's advancement is pretty even. After four games, both me and my opponent are going to have the same oppertunity for advancement.
In Blood Bowl, however, if I'm playing Elves and he's playing Dwarves, I as the elf coach am going to have to pass a ton to advance my team. The Dwarf coach HAS to bash his way to SPPs or risk being left in the dust.
Until the two, game performance and team training, are seperated you're not going to be able to genuinely chastise a coach for doing something like this.
dwarfcoach - Oct 04, 2003 - 09:57 AM
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I totally agree, that is why I try not to!!
It kinda interupts my own game-play so I try to let it concern me much and if my opponent wants to play such a game then as long as it does not slow down the game much then 'Go ahead fella, whatever does it for you!'
Gertwise - Oct 04, 2003 - 12:29 PM
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Even though I do count SPP's, I don't think it slows my game play down at all. I don't sit there and look at my team roster constantly to see who should throw to who or who needs the TD.
But when I set up I will make sure that I put a player in such a position that he will get the ball thrown to him for the TD or that they will rush the offense to get the ball for the TD.
To be honest, I'm not to sure why coaches have problems with other coaches getting a certain player some SPP's. If they haven't set that player up in a position to get the SPP's, then they would be taking a risk to get it to somebody else increasing the chance for a TO. And I don't know about anybody else, but I like it when my opponent turns over to me.
SuM - Oct 06, 2003 - 05:36 AM
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I'm constantly watching SPP counts...
Like said above tho, it doesn't slow the game at all either...
The way I do it -
I use the Excel SpreadSheet Roster, a simply Highlighter, makes the Player stand out...
- and -
I mark their bases...
With my Amazons, certain colored Bases, mean certain positions...
Gold = Blitzers
Silver Throwers
Red = Catchers
Turquiose = Linewomen
Also-
During the a League Season, I paint dot the back of their bases, Certain Colors means certain Skills... so at a Glance, I know what they have...
Mine scheme:
Gold = "Block", the most important one...
Black = "Guard"
Red = "Catch"
Silver = "Throw"
Notice the are close to the colors of certain positions..
It works for me, it makes my game flow smoothly, instead of pulling my Roster out to figure out what skills a player has...
Tutenkharnage - Oct 06, 2003 - 06:36 AM
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neoliminal wrote:
No coach says to himself "I need Frank to score a Touch Down, it will make him dodge better."
I hear you, but I don't agree in full. Instead, the coach probably says, "Look, we worked on this all week in practice. Frank's ready to take it to the next level. Let's see how he responds to a game situation."
Players get better by playing and executing during play. You hear this every week in the NFL (or any sport). Heck, it's like this playing music live
-Chet
Deathwing - Oct 06, 2003 - 08:13 AM
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I've seen coaches use an extra column on their roster sheets (just penciled in on the r/h side) indicating SPPs to go before their next upgrade.
Simple enough, every time you mark down a cas for example, you drop that number by 2. Easy enough, you can tell at a glance, works a treat. (Although nowdays it's 'SPPs to go before he picks up an aging niggle' )
SuM - Oct 06, 2003 - 04:58 PM
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Check out our League Sheets, and whatever else you want to look at...http://pub129.ezboard.com/fsegmentumaustralisfrm68.showMessage?topicID=51.topic
We use a Modified Excel Roster SpreadSheet...
On it you will see Kills, our League we get 1 SPP for Kill, added to the CAS, making it 3... But If you look to the Left, there is a column with "NA"...
"NA" = "Next Advance"
Also, in our League we have Old teams and New teams....
jkarr - Oct 06, 2003 - 11:05 PM
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Hey I was going to post that for them. Oh well.
SuM - Oct 07, 2003 - 03:25 AM
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Sorry, "Commish JKarr"...
You can still comment on the topic... heheeeeeee...
Khaine - Oct 07, 2003 - 10:14 AM
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Trying to work in the NFL theme, you constantly see the coach calling the plays where they sen the ball to a consistent " Go to guy". I mean look at some of the players in the NFl who have been around forever, <eg brett farve who's been around for so long he's an institution, he's basically the equivalent of a griff>. While if he was hurt he would probably take the packers down with him but luckily he doesn't get hurt very often. While this probably doesn't get you the most balanced team, it will get a by the statistics honest to goodness performing team as long as you don't totally ignore other players. Without a good line a QB is going to struggle to make the plays. Same in BB if you end up with a star one turn GR or WE Catcher, and everyone else is face down on the pitch or in the KO box your more then likely not scoring without a dozen or so dodge rolls and some VERY skillful thinking.
Melifaxis - Oct 07, 2003 - 12:01 PM
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You MUST watch SPP's in league play to win
I spread out the points, but allow myself one "big gun"...ended up with 2 last season, but most players had at least one or two skills as well.
I'm itching to get my Necro team on the pitch!
GalakStarscraper - Oct 07, 2003 - 12:47 PM
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Playing Halflings by PBeM is nice because I have visual access to an incredible "SPP counting tool"
I change the numbers of the players as they develop on my Fling team.
0-9 is for players with 1 to 5 SPPs
10-19 is for my Diving Tackle players
20-29 is for my players with doubles roll skills (Kick, Sure Hands, Dirty Player)
30-39 is for my players with +1 MA or Sure Feet
40-49 is for my players that have earned enough SPPs to get their first skill in the game (so that I don't leave them in TZs and such like fodder)
50-59 is for +1 AG players
60-69 is for players that due to injury need to be retired when money allows
70-79 is for +1 ST players
80-89 is for Big Guys
90-99 is for 0 SPP players.
Using this system with my Halfling teams in the PBeMBBL has made it a heck of a lot easier to play the team and develop them.
Galak
neoliminal - Oct 07, 2003 - 06:25 PM
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That's cool Galak!!!
GalakStarscraper - Oct 08, 2003 - 06:48 AM
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neoliminal wrote:
That's cool Galak!!!
Yeah ... it really really helped once I developed the system. I'm getting really close to a 50% win rate with 'Flings in the PBeMBBL and this with a take all challengers approach (ie I've just left my team open and whoever wanted to play me, I'd play).
Currently playing a 25 point TR higher Norse team (with a PoN blitzer ... AV 3 Flings ... 
... run for the hills boys and then boot him when he's down)
By the way, Neo/Acerak ... can I please keep my Ogres ... I've gotten rather attached to the old boys (my one Ogre is up to 29 SPPs after 11 games ... ... tthhhisss close to skill #3). After 2 years of playing Flings, I've already decided to retire from playing the race if all they have is Treemen with off-pitch Take Root ... the team is unplayable even by a pro if they have a 25% of starting a match with no Big Guys ... oh well. I know it too late to save the Ogres, but d*mn they were fun while they lasted.
Galak
Chris - Oct 08, 2003 - 08:47 AM
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Is it just me that thinks that it's fine the Halflings are a hopeless team?
dwarfcoach - Oct 08, 2003 - 09:22 AM
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Well it's cool and characterful that they are a 'very challenging team to win with regularly' as they are Halfings after all!!
On the other hand, if even very talented, dedicated coaches can't get anything near a winning performance then it really does begger the question
"Why would you ever bother to play them?"
It is always a big challenge using the little guy teams (Halfings or Gobbos) but if it is proven without any doubt that F'lings can't hack it then I know it would discourage me... I'd like to think that with good enough coach 'every' team has a chance, it is just easier with some teams.....
GalakStarscraper - Oct 08, 2003 - 09:35 AM
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Chris wrote:
Is it just me that thinks that it's fine the Halflings are a hopeless team?
I agree that the team should be hopeless, but not completely hopeless ... there is a HUGE difference.
You cannot even write a decent tactics guide for 'Flings with off-pitch Take Root. It would look like this:
First half ... run away until the 2nd half.
Second half ... if you have enough players left use the Halfling Playbook
Yeah that's fun. The Halfling strategy guide in the 2003 Annual had one thing right ... don't ever use off-pitch Take Root Treeman with Halflings. Its one of the few things I agreed with in that article.
Anyway sorry to thread-jack.
Galak
mosalva - Oct 08, 2003 - 11:06 AM
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Play a team of losers! All players equal stats...then you truly don't care how gets the spps. My 14 halflings run around my 2 treemen.and however has the ball and ends up standing by the treeman gets tossed! Once the treemen got block and pro, the rest was fun! I'll try "Diving catch" here because he has "Hail Mary", and he got doubles so, what the hell, he gest "mighty blow" for a good laugh. I've played my Pantry Raiders for two leagues now, over 30 games and the fun I'm having! OK, I have won 1 match (because my opponent didn't turn up), but can anyone imagine the satisfaction of having a halfling with "mighty blow" send Lord Borak to the injuries box?
Mordredd - Oct 08, 2003 - 11:11 AM
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Borak? On a 3 dice block he chooses? 
GalakStarscraper - Oct 08, 2003 - 12:13 PM
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mosalva wrote:
I've played my Pantry Raiders for two leagues now, over 30 games and the fun I'm having! OK, I have won 1 match (because my opponent didn't turn up)?
A 1-29 record would not be something that I would have fun earning. Yes, I play Flings ... but I'm pretty darn proud of the 5-6 record I've managed with them.
The problem here is that for a year Goblin and Halfling teams have been allowed Ogres. Now those guys are going. Goblins will still have Trolls who are okay substitutes since they show up to hold the line. But Treeman are horrible subs. MA 2 and 50% of your games will be played with 1 the first half and 25% will be played with 0. Expect not much to be left of your AV 6 team ... 1-29 records with off-pitch Take Root ... yeah I believe it. Oh well ... I'm sit and cross my fingers for on-pitch Take Root soon so I can play my Flings again in the PBeMBBL after the 2004 Rules Review I guess.
Galak
mosalva - Oct 08, 2003 - 05:20 PM
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Quote:
on-pitch Take Root
Ah, can you explain me that? I don't know this rule. Does it mean that the treeman stays in th epitch?
Part of the reason for a 1-29 balance is that out of 12 teams in the league 1 are chaos, 2 orcs, 1 dwarf and 2 norse and 1 undead. Then there's my halflings, 1 human and 3 elves. So the chaos, the dwarf and the undead took a lot of Tackle and a lot of Mighty Blow with the idea that "a game vs halflings = spps GALORE" and it was mostly right. The treemen would get rushed by sacrificial players so I had -4 and -5 modifiers to throw people, the frenzy norse blitzers had a day of fun, dwarves loved the slow cage, etc...so a game with no treemen against these teams usually meant a lot of injuries.
But it's lots of fun when I got lucky and things worked out!
Going back to the main topic started by SuM, I tend to select players and give them one skill, then move onto another one and try and balance out. But is difficult because there are players that almost never get skills, like zombies. In my undead team it is always ghouls and wights that play the game.
mosalva - Oct 08, 2003 - 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Yes, I play Flings ... but I'm pretty darn proud of the 5-6 record I've managed with them.
Starscraper that is an excellent record with Halflings! You will have to tell me some offensive ideas.
dwarfcoach - Oct 08, 2003 - 05:37 PM
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Sure, to a certain extent you have to watch SPP in a league, but I think it has gone too far when:
a) You have to pause before you score to check which player you are scoring with
b) That horrible 'passing behind your own line for extra experience' thing starts to happen
c) You are more concerned with team developement than enjoying the game or winning
Seems to defeat the point of playing in the first place, well for me anyway...
Gertwise - Oct 08, 2003 - 09:06 PM
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Quote:
a) You have to pause before you score to check which player you are scoring with
b) That horrible 'passing behind your own line for extra experience' thing starts to happen
c) You are more concerned with team developement than enjoying the game or winning
I agree with a, but I'm of the opinion go ahead and try to give the ball to somebody else. That might result in a turnover where you don't score and give me the opportunity to take advantage of it.
B is the same way, go ahead and toss the ball around. Double 1's and I have the opportunity to get the ball.
I definitely agree with c.
Mordredd - Oct 09, 2003 - 10:10 AM
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I can't agree with any of them.
a) What are you on? It's only sensible to make sure the player that will most benefit from scoring is given the ball, when there's a choice. Hmmm. Hand off to the player who's 1-3 SPP from a skill or the player who's 4+ and has scored all the others?
b) Don't be such a pussy. Run up there and blitz the fool. And at least if he's passing around in the back field, he's not passing up field to score.
c) Who says that team development isn't enjoyable? Or part of maintaining a good winning record?
dwarfcoach - Oct 09, 2003 - 10:35 AM
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Mordredd wrote:
I can't agree with any of them.
a) What are you on? It's only sensible to make sure the player that will most benefit from scoring is given the ball, when there's a choice. Hmmm. Hand off to the player who's 1-3 SPP from a skill or the player who's 4+ and has scored all the others?
b) Don't be such a pussy. Run up there and blitz the fool. And at least if he's passing around in the back field, he's not passing up field to score.
c) Who says that team development isn't enjoyable? Or part of maintaining a good winning record?
a)When theres a choice, sure, but messing around delaying the normal course of the match because of SPP? BORING!
b)Hmm, have you ever seen a Dwarf trying to run? Their fastest player moves at average Human pace .
"I???m wasted on cross-country. We Dwarfs are natural sprinters, very dangerous over short distances"
- Hmm, very short on a BB pitch .
And the normal culprite of this is generally Elf teams (ducks the hail of elf outrage )
c)Building a team IS enjoyable, but not at the detriment of the game you are currently playing. The entire point of developing your team is so they can be more successful when playing, but if you never really just 'kick back and enjoy the match' then what is the point???????
Doubleskulls - Oct 09, 2003 - 11:28 AM
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I'm sorry but IMO Elves need to be picking up those extra SPPs on linemen to get them some skills. You're just jealous because you can't! It only works about half the time anyway, and then you've got a chance to exploit the ball lying on the ground.
Delaying the game while you check your roster isn't really on, however taking an extra turn I don't have a problem with. Another chance to stop you scoring? Great.
Khaine - Oct 09, 2003 - 11:57 AM
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I've always had the idea of making a "no lateral pass" rule. So that the ball is either going up the field twards your goal, or farther from your goal. It prevents the side to side game of catch I saw alot in the online leagues. As far as I'm concerned it's an uneccessary delay of game penalty . Take your illegal procedure and a doce roll if it really bothers you. I mean that is why there are house rules. A pass is used to put the ball in a better possition not to make sure skinny elf a and b get a skill every other game.
noodle1978uk - Oct 09, 2003 - 12:25 PM
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Khaine wrote:
I've always had the idea of making a "no lateral pass" rule. So that the ball is either going up the field twards your goal, or farther from your goal. It prevents the side to side game of catch I saw alot in the online leagues. As far as I'm concerned it's an uneccessary delay of game penalty
. Take your illegal procedure and a doce roll if it really bothers you. I mean that is why there are house rules. A pass is used to put the ball in a better possition not to make sure skinny elf a and b get a skill every other game.
Er. No
When rules start telling me how to lpay the game I'll stop - have you ever seen Liverpool play football - if you had SPPs for passing in that game they'd be great....
Well not so much now...
mosalva - Oct 09, 2003 - 12:25 PM
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Quote:
I've always had the idea of making a "no lateral pass" rule
I agree. It would be a nice rule to avoid beardedness. I also think it is unfair for some teams with low agility who cannot really afford this "extra spps" strategy because the risk of turnover is big.
Quote:
Delaying the game while you check your roster isn't really on, however taking an extra turn I don't have a problem with. Another chance to stop you scoring? Great.
I think that reducing the time limit would help. I know coaches that turn up for the game, take ages on their turns, then when the game is over they just scribble on their rosters, work out a new TR and go home and that's their experience. On their next game, I ask to see their rosters and I cannot tell player skills because their rosters are scribbled up and full of crosses here and there. And for every move it's "wait, is that the running blitzer with sure feet or the blocking one with guard" and I get fed up of all this pondering and pro-vs-con consideration. I move my players, which player number has what and how the skills I gave them work in relation to the other players. If I win by a margin and there is no chance of my opponent winning or drawing then I will risk a few giving the ball o someone who would not normally score just to try and advance him a bit.
On the other side, I also want to be careful. More SPPs mean more TR, so if the SPPs are too spread out I will have a team with high TR and not that many skills. If I concentrate them in a few players I have a highTR team with well defined objectives for my opponents' Dirty Players and MIghty Blow blitzers... In both cases when playing a team with lower TR I risk having my opponent weaken my team with TR-difference rolls (and it has happened a lot).
GalakStarscraper - Oct 09, 2003 - 03:03 PM
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mosalva wrote:
Quote:
Yes, I play Flings ... but I'm pretty darn proud of the 5-6 record I've managed with them.
Starscraper that is an excellent record with Halflings! You will have to tell me some offensive ideas.
5 wins: Dark Elf, 2 Norse, Chaos, Goblin
6 losses: Wood Elf, 2 High Elf, Skaven, Dark Elf, Lizardmen
Halfling Playbook:
http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=121253 Page 1
Page 3 of this tread has the on-pitch Take Root proposal
Galak
noodle1978uk - Oct 10, 2003 - 03:06 AM
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Elves need more SPPs to remain competetive or their linemen die. Completions aids this. And its 1 SPP for goodness sake.
Why is everything beardy with you people!
ten years of blood bowl and I've never heard anyone claim that before!!!!
Mordredd - Oct 10, 2003 - 05:38 AM
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Hmmm.....Dwarves.....Beards.....Connection..... 
No, can't quite work it out.
Dwarfcoach, I know Dwarves are slow but you can still put pressure on his backfield players. And yes, I have seen them 'run'.
It only takes a few seconds to check your roster. I don't call that delaying the game.
"No lateral pass" is a totally ridiculous idea. It may be necessary to do one to score. Moving the ball quickly from one side of the pitch to the other is a well established way of getting it past slow teams who have defended one side line too strongly. In any case you should be able to pass the ball around however you want.
noodle1978uk - Oct 10, 2003 - 05:47 AM
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I agree - and lump the "no lateral pass" idea along with the terrible "must score if you can without rolling dice" lunacy
Coaches should be able to play the game as they like - If you don't like the way your opponent plays - beat hime up (well his team at least)
Besides, going for a completion gives me something to do in turn 8 when I have just conceded a TD
dwarfcoach - Oct 10, 2003 - 06:23 AM
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I think ultimately it all comes down to how you play the game. I have known guys who were the obsessed with SSP counting, but when I played them they had already planed out their game, knew which player needed what and the game rattled along just fine. It only starts to be troublesome when players stop - start - stop just to count SSP. It is an important part of league gaming, but when it starts to interupt gaming and therfore the enjoyment of the game then what is the point?
I agree that the 'no lateral pass' idea is a bit over the top, but I imagine the idea behind it was simply to stop players 'messing around' in their own half. At the end of the day you do not see proffessional players of any sport making plays during a match 'for practice and experience'. That is what SSP is meant to represent, and it simply does not track that you would do this during a match!
I do not have a problem if guys want to do this, but it does seem to become far too important to some players....
Doubleskulls - Oct 10, 2003 - 07:03 AM
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I've heard other coaches complain about Elves passing behind the lines. I'm sure its just jealousy. I know I'd love to do it with my Orcs.
No lateral pass is, IMO, a bad rule. The other day I passed backwards because the ball was in an exposed position and I could not stop the ball carrier being sacked and losing possession. So he chucked the ball back a couple of squares into the safety of the pocket. Should I be stopped from doing that?
noodle1978uk - Oct 10, 2003 - 08:24 AM
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dwarfcoach wrote:
At the end of the day you do not see proffessional players of any sport making plays during a match 'for practice and experience'. That is what SSP is meant to represent, and it simply does not track that you would do this during a match!
Er... You do see a lot of passing backwards in football around the defence just to give people a breather...
But what "SPPs represent" is a bit dodgy anyway - The MVP is random for a start - and in "real life" being awarded the man of the mnatch won't make you a better player!!!!
Its not real life, its blood bowl
And in the end a quick check of your teamsheet will take 5 secs! I often point out that just a 3+ hand off would get guy X a skill for my opponent, in the vague hope he will drop it....
Indigo - Oct 10, 2003 - 08:42 AM
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noodle1978uk wrote:
And in the end a quick check of your teamsheet will take 5 secs! I often point out that just a 3+ hand off would get guy X a skill for my opponent, in the vague hope he will drop it....
A 3+ pass you mean... you don't get SPPs for hand offs...
noodle1978uk - Oct 10, 2003 - 09:15 AM
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no I meant a 3+ handoff to guy X who would score instead of the guy with the ball in the vain attempt to get my opponent to fail to score....
Indigo - Oct 10, 2003 - 09:26 AM
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ah. that'd be my lunchtime pints getting in the way of reading properly then
mosalva - Oct 10, 2003 - 11:54 AM
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On the "Lateral Pass" thing...I remember the experimental rules for the experimental Bretonnians that only allowed them to pass forward. Is that right? I don't think they went very well.
I still think that passing the ball from player to player at the back of your end zone doesn't feel all that right. I suppose it's fine to do it, and a great way for throwers and high agility linemen (minimising turnovers) to gain additional points...even more if developing your tactic takes a few turns (send a few players through enemy lines, test which sides are weaker, make your opponent spread his defense without making it obvious which way you will go...). Still, I find that most of the time the player kept behind near the ball carrier would be best used near the enemy.
Also I believe it benefits more high agility teams. OK AV7 (WE, Sk) or high cost (DE, HE) means that players break easily or are hard to replace so they should have a chance to pick up skills to protect themselves better. But a DE (for example) with block and dodge is tough, tough, tough to knock down when blitzed, foget about blocking him becuase his coach will have succesfully dodged him out of your tackle zone the previous turn.
Having said this, I play DE often and WE occasionally, and have been known to keep my opponet uncertain which way the ball would go whilst my wardancers jumped over the enemy lines, my catchers dodged through or my DE witchelves and blitzers broke gaps ready to run on the next turn.