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Rules Questions - MVP to Dead Player ...
GriffOberwald69 - Nov 13, 2003 - 06:06 AM
Post subject: MVP to Dead Player ...
In my last match, the MVP bonus goes to a Dead player (reast in pieces) ! 
Is this correct ? 
Bye
Griff
GalakStarscraper - Nov 13, 2003 - 06:08 AM
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Yup. Several leagues (like one of mine) house rule this away (its a setting in the PBeM Tool).
But it is the official LRB rules.
Galak
SBG - Nov 13, 2003 - 09:12 AM
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It's a shame when that happens to you, but I find it so funny when it happens to my opponent!
Fred
phinal - Nov 13, 2003 - 09:32 AM
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now what if there is lets say a human team versus a necromantic team.
human #28 dies to a werewolf and gets turned into a zombie and starts playing for the necro team.
at the end of the match you roll for starplayers and the human coach rolls for human #28, techniquely he finished the game but on the other team. because you clear the SPPs off the human onces he turns into the zombie do you think he should get the MVP points because this is after the fact?
i personally think this would be funny as hell and from a game balance perspective i don't see it being too powerful since it will only happen once in a blue moon.
you roll MVP at the end of the match so when do you remove or add someone on your roster? since the MVP is lost when you have a dead player you must keep him on your roster till the end of the game. and i'd assume you add the zombie before the end of the game so perhaps he even has the ability to get 2 MVPs for a match ....
donno but this is something i wonder if it could be clarified
westonwyse - Nov 13, 2003 - 10:11 AM
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Well, he played for both teams. If he was the best player on both teams, why not?
Darkson - Nov 13, 2003 - 03:36 PM
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Sucks, doesn't it 
@ phinaal - the same question was asked on the GW BB forum, and someone said it was clarified somewhere that the team with the dead player hjust loses the MVP, the zombie doesn't get it twice. Not sure where the clarification was from though.
dwarfcoach - Nov 13, 2003 - 03:46 PM
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phinal wrote:
now what if there is lets say a human team versus a necromantic team.
human #28 dies to a werewolf and gets turned into a zombie and starts playing for the necro team.
at the end of the match you roll for starplayers and the human coach rolls for human #28, techniquely he finished the game but on the other team. because you clear the SPPs off the human onces he turns into the zombie do you think he should get the MVP points because this is after the fact?
i personally think this would be funny as hell and from a game balance perspective i don't see it being too powerful since it will only happen once in a blue moon.
you roll MVP at the end of the match so when do you remove or add someone on your roster? since the MVP is lost when you have a dead player you must keep him on your roster till the end of the game. and i'd assume you add the zombie before the end of the game so perhaps he even has the ability to get 2 MVPs for a match ....
donno but this is something i wonder if it could be clarified
The way I see it is like this:
The player is called 'Mr Smith' . 'Mr Smith' does some amazing stuff in his last ever match, and is posthumously awarded the MVP by appreciative viewers..... 
Fresh Zombie #37 joins the Undead team. He feels.... nothing, he isdead after all!! 
Unfortunately (but fortunately for the League Commissioners 'Did You Know?' section in the monthly news letter) any and all experience gained by a player when he is alive is reverted to 0 when he is dead (even a fresh dead 'un like a zombie as opposed to a skeleton.... 
)[/b]
Mordredd - Nov 14, 2003 - 05:51 AM
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Quote:
'Mr Smith' does some amazing stuff in his last ever match, and is posthumously awarded the MVP by appreciative viewers
Quote:
all experience gained by a player when he is alive is reverted to 0 when he is dead
Reading all that I find myself unsure as to whether you are for or against the zombie getting his former teams MVP. It is, after all, awarded to him after his demise and so was not part of those SPPs wiped by his death (or perhaps more accurately his zombification).
I say let him have it, for the comedy value alone. 
westonwyse - Nov 14, 2003 - 09:22 AM
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But it was still experience gained when he was alive. No, he definitely wouldn't get SPPs as a zombie for getting an MVP as a human. He could get them that game as a zombie, though. He could never get both.
Mordredd - Nov 14, 2003 - 10:31 AM
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From my perspective an MVP is not experience, but a boost in the confidence of the player as a result of winning the award. He's still been voted the best player and, if further argument is needed, it is possible to get an MVP from the handicap table before a player has even played his first match. I.e. match experience is net necessary to gain the SPP benefits of an MVP award.
zeuzism - Nov 15, 2003 - 04:23 PM
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In my oppinion he can have both: as doubleskulls said, when dies his SPP's are levelled to zero. But he receives both MVP's after the match (in post-match). That is after his death. So he didn't win the MVP before dieing and as a result of that he can't loose it by dieing.
An example: Humie starts match with 4 SPP's, niggles a mummy and therefore gains 2 SPP's (He now has 6!), then the other mummy stomp's him to death in a rage (he niggled his buddy ) . Humie is no longer and looses all SPP's, he is now in fact mummies buddy, a zombie sparring partner. Next drive Zombie fixes one of his old team-mates and gains 2 SPP's (the crowd goes wild!). And after the match there can be no doubt, as he was the only cool guy on both teams he gains 2 MVP's. Happy zombie now has 12 SPP's.
Is that BB?
Yes.
And I love it.!
GRR, zeuzism
Zombie - Nov 15, 2003 - 07:09 PM
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I agree, give him both!
Khaine - Nov 18, 2003 - 03:19 PM
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Has anyone ever tried a.... Logical way of dealing out the MVP? I mean I personally think that giving the MVP to a player who did... Nothing is rather dumb. After all MVP is Most Valuable Player, not gimp who stood there with his thumb in his rear. Maybe something like this.
Scored TD = 3 MVP Points
Injury = 1 MVP Point
Injury Resulting in SI = 2 MVP Points
Injury Resulting in Pushing Up Daisies = 5 MVP Points
Sucessful Pass = 2 MVP
Sucessful Catch = 1 MVP Point
Sucessful Handoff = 1 MVP Point
I think this represents the fans excitement factor for certain activities.
Zombie - Nov 18, 2003 - 03:40 PM
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The problem with this is that without the random MVP, your linemen will never get a skill.
MVP is better off random.
Babs - Nov 19, 2003 - 02:53 AM
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The zombie (or skellie if you play Khemri) player conundrum is an interesting one. however I do believe that the official answer would be that the newly joined member of the undead side would be only able to gain one MVP.
Feel free to house rule it otherwise (and hey it is funny!).
This conclusion is arrived at from the spirit of the necromantic rules on p27 where "the new player has standard zombie characteristics no matter what his skills or abilities in life."
It's not an official answer - just my best guess at what an official answer would look like (and I get 1/7 of the votes on it )
Thadrin - Nov 20, 2003 - 05:37 AM
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Khaine - we tried doing MVP rules based on actions (any player who earned SPP could get it).
It failed horribly.
Your system is nice, but way too much in the way of extra bookkeeping...and you KNOW it'll get mixed up with SPPs.
Mordredd - Nov 20, 2003 - 07:39 AM
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Plus there is no way that you can account for players non SPP generating, but game winning, performances. I have had a Zombie man mark a Rat Ogre for an entire game whilst my cage rumbled through the rest of the team. He even KOd it a few time. It was by far the greatest individual performance of the game but would have been totally overlooked by your SPP based system.
Similarly there are those vital TD stopping blitzs that don't result in casualties and other heroic plays for which you get no SPPs. The system cannot be subjective, or you could end up with long arguments over whether that player really was the most valuable. Either due to genuine disagreement or down to attempted abuse by either coach.
Random is non-subjective and has the least scope for abuse. For that reason alone it is the best choice.
Darkson - Nov 20, 2003 - 08:05 AM
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Have to agree with Mordred there. Other in the PBeMBBL we started a 4 game knockout tourney, and one of the rules was that the losing coach would assign a Duff man-of-the-match award to a player on the winning side (in addition to the MVP).
In game 2, one of my catchers scored 2 TD, made a pass, and harassed the oppo thrower into making a fumble. My opposistion gave him the Duff Award. Under your scheme, this would have earnt him 8 pMVP points, and given him the MVP.
In game 1, he didn't score, but did KO a ball carrier who was about to score (on a 2d they choose block), then later in the game he dodged away from a player, went back into his TZ to pick up the ball, dodged out again, threw a long pass to the other catcher who walked in unopposed for the winning TD. Again, my opponent gave him the Duff, but under the points you listed the catcher who did next to nothing got 4 points, will the hard working fella got only 2.
So, as Mordred said, it's not subjective enough. Also, one of the agruements used against the EXP rules was that it was extra bookkeeping (and upto 16 extra dice rolls), so imagine what those people would say to having to keep seperate totals for SPP's and MVP points.
Nice idea though.