Strategy and Tactics - New bull Centaur Skill, what to do. GColeman76 - Dec 20, 2003 - 12:52 PM Post subject: New bull Centaur Skill, what to do.
New skill due, the Bull centaur has block and Ag 3, what next. I don't want him to turn into a superstar, he needs to be part of the team.Zombie - Dec 20, 2003 - 08:58 PM Post subject:
With AG3, he already is a superstar! Too late for that!
On a double, definitely dodge. Otherwise, sure hands is the way to go.Mestari - Dec 21, 2003 - 03:01 AM Post subject:
Dodge on doubles, definitely.
On an ordinary roll, it really depends on what you want from him. Sure Hands is a great way of saving those rerolls and definitely makes him better at his role of designated scorer at the time of need (naturally, he should not be used to score unless that's unavoidable).
If there's a lot of dodge in your league a ST4 tackler might not be a bad idea either. Strip ball is another nice choice if you want to use him to hunt that ball-carrier.
I wouldn't forsake Guard or MB as choices either, if you are aiming for a very aggressive game-style for your team: having the possibility to move a ST4+Guard player quite a distance to aid in a tight position is not an option that you should carelessly throw away.
Sure Hands would suit my playing style, though...Zombie - Dec 21, 2003 - 03:20 AM Post subject:
Whenever i get a stat increase on a player (assuming it's any good, i.e. not +1AG on a mummy), i try to give the player skills that will fit well with that stat increase. I don't see any way that tackle, strip ball, guard or mighty blow can increase the value of the extra AG. Those skills would therefore be better suited to the other bull centaur.
However, once he has sure hands, i don't see anything else that would fit the AG increase well. A general purpose skill that can be used in lots of different situations then becomes the next best thing. Something like guard, mighty blow or tackle.
As an aside, even though dodge is the obvious choice, leap could be pretty funny on a double. The only reason i wouldn't take it is because chaos dwarves don't need to get inside a cage to break it!Doubleskulls - Dec 21, 2003 - 05:28 AM Post subject:
Doubles - dodge or stand firm - if your league is tackle heavy
Normal skills - break tackle is still useful (as there is a big difference in reliability).
Unlike Zombie I think Tackle or strip ball still work quite well. BCs are blitzers so anything that improves their ability to get the ball loose helps.
Sure Hands guarantees he'll become your main scorer and a big target. It isn't a bad choice though as quite often he'll be able to get to a loose ball on defence.Mestari - Dec 23, 2003 - 12:44 AM Post subject:
Definitely skill choices must be adjusted to suit the stat increases the player has received. But I'm of the opinion that AG increase doesn't mean "take scoring skills".
The agility increase gives him more mobility and thus makes him a better blitzer - you can complement that by taking tackle/guard/strip ball.
Now, I still emphasize that I do consider also strip ball a worthwhile choice...Zombie - Dec 23, 2003 - 01:46 AM Post subject:
Don't get me wrong, for certain players, i agree that extra AG doesn't spell scorer. Elves are the best exemple. Everyone has AG4 and can do pretty much anything at 2+ already. All that an extra point of AG is good for in such a case is leaping and pass blocking. So i try to develop AG5 elves as pass blockers if they're catchers or line-elves, or as ball extractors if they're blitzers or line-elves. It depends a lot on the league composition too. Ball extractors are useful against bashing teams that play the cage, while pass blockers are useful against agility teams. Both options are for use on defense though, not on offense and certainly not for scoring.
However, unlike elves, chaos dwarves are already pretty good on defense right out of the box. Instead, they're lacking on offense. Bull centaurs are the scorers by default, because they're the fastest players and also the most likely to hang onto the ball. Even with AG2, they're still the best players on their team for scoring. Adding an extra AG for them is like a gift from heaven in this regard. Instead of failing the pick up or the catch 1 in 4 times with a reroll, they do it now only 1 in 9 times. That's a huge difference.
If i had an AG3 bull centaur on my team, you can be sure he'd have the ball on every offensive drive (except probably on a touchback where i'd give it to the other bull centaur or even a troll or chaos dwarf blocker). Mind you, i'd try to score as scarely as possible with him, so as not to hog all the SPPs. Most of my offensive drives would end up with a hand off to a hobgoblin. But for a team that plays the cage, hanging on to the ball for a long period of time is key, and few players in the whole game of Blood Bowl can do that better than an AG3 bull centaur.
Unfortunately, i don't have an AG3 bull centaur on my chaos dwarf team. I do, however, have an AG4 hobgoblin and a ST4 hobgoblin. Who do you think gets the ball at the beginning of each drive? The ST4 one, because he can hang onto it much better. If you think about it, a ST4 hobgoblin and an AG3 bull centaur look pretty much the same statwise...
Oh, it's not that i don't agree when you say the extra AG is useful for blitzing. But it's a lot more useful for scoring. Especially for a player who'd get break tackle as a first or second skill anyway.Tutenkharnage - Dec 23, 2003 - 07:15 AM Post subject:
Agreed that AG 3 is more useful for scoring. However, what do you do to complement the player's extra AG when you're playing on defense? The extra AG likely makes him a better blitzer unless your other BC has Break Tackle. A skill like Tackle or Strip Ball can actually help you - use it to take down the opposing team's ball-carrier, then get in there and pick up the undefended ball on a 3+ roll.
-ChetZombie - Dec 23, 2003 - 10:55 AM Post subject:
First, the other bull centaur probably does have break tackle, or at least he should. Second, this one can be used to pick up the ball with sure hands after it's been broken loose. That's plenty useful on defense.Tutenkharnage - Dec 23, 2003 - 11:10 AM Post subject:
Gavrad never said what his second BC had, although he should have Break Tackle and Block.
Sure Hands will definitely help with this BC. I'd go with that, followed by something more utilitarian (like Guard or Tackle). And I'd be asking Santa every day for another AG increase
Picking up the pieces left by the other BC is possible, but not always easy. On the flip side, the player who knocked down the opponent is almost always free to finish off by grabbing the ball. At least you know he'll be in the area.
Cheers!
-ChetGColeman76 - Dec 23, 2003 - 02:04 PM Post subject:
My 2nd BC has only got block thus far he rarely does anything because I am a lucky so and so with a
+1 Ag BC, 2 St 4 Hobgoblins, a St 4 CD and a Minotaur with Razor Sharp Claws!!!
Still not convinced.
Oh and I didn't roll a double so convince me, Strip Ball? Sure Hands maybe Tackle perhaps Mighty Blow or who will convince me to take guard.Tutenkharnage - Dec 23, 2003 - 02:57 PM Post subject:
Don't take Guard. I don't see an AG +1 Hobgoblin on your lucky list, so I suggest you take Sure Hands. Make the Bull Centaur a viable ball carrier.
Just for the record: have you considered passing up the AG increase? It's quasi-heretical, but if you don't want to score with the BC, it's a good move. You can always take Break Tackle instead, which makes him even better at dodging. If you give him AG +1, you'll be inclined to take risks with him that you might not otherwise take.
-ChetZombie - Dec 23, 2003 - 03:00 PM Post subject:
You didn't say that you had 2 ST4 hobgoblins! That changes everything. They can do the scoring, which leaves the bull centaur with only blitzing duty.
So tackle or strip ball would be best i suppose. And try to get the other bull centaur break tackle asap.GColeman76 - Dec 24, 2003 - 01:23 AM Post subject:
Thanks for the help everyone, I have decided that Strip Ball is the way to go as our leagues next tournament the entry list is seriously lacking dodge. I have enough Tackle players anyway.
Thanks Again.Mestari - Jan 02, 2004 - 12:53 AM Post subject:
3 Strength increases is definitely something that has a "slight" effect on the skill choices... SBG - Jan 04, 2004 - 08:47 AM Post subject:
That is lucky indeed! But I did manage to get lucky with my CD's as well :
ST 4 Hobbo;
AG 5 Gobbo (!!!)
ST 4 CD;
ST 5 BC.
I love them !
As for the skill choice, even though my input come in late, I would have suggested Strip Ball as well, aiming for Sure Hands on the next increase.
