Rules Questions - Beast of Nurgle - Nurgle's Rot KarlLagerbottom - Jul 25, 2004 - 02:59 AM Post subject: Beast of Nurgle - Nurgle's Rot
First a question for me...Am I really up at 5:00 AM posting a rules question for a team that I don't own? Yes!
Ok...now one for the rest of you.
I realise that the Beast of Nurgle's ability to generate new Rotters via kills, does not over-ride the roster limitation on 4 Rotters. However, in league play, you may have a Rotter with a niggling injury or some other long-term injury that has reduced his skills.
Can you opt to cut the Gimpy Rotter in favor of the new one?
Thanks. -RobDarkson - Jul 25, 2004 - 11:25 AM Post subject:
If you cut him before the game, then yes you can.
If one dies during the game, then yes you can replace him.
But if you finish the game with 4 living (broadly!) Rotters,and your Beast killed a player, then no you can't.KarlLagerbottom - Jul 25, 2004 - 12:57 PM Post subject:
Darkson-
Thanks for the quick response, but I don't understand the third point from below.
As I understand the rule, if the beast kills somone during Game 1. You can add a free Rotter to your team before Game 2. From your answer...I believe that I can cut a Gimpy Rotter before Game 2, if I already had a full complement of 4, to make room for the newly created Rotter.
I also believe that your second point is saying that if one of my Rotters dies during Game 1, then the newly created Rotter can take his place on the roster before Game 2.
However, I don't understand the third point.
Thanks again, but could you please clarify point #3?
-RobDarkson - Jul 25, 2004 - 02:39 PM Post subject:
no, if you end a game with 4 Rotters, you can't cut one for a Rotter made in that game. Basically, you have to have an open spot at the time the Rotter was made (at least that was the way it was explained to me). My point 1 was that you could cut a player before game 1, make a kill in game 1, and have a rotter for game 2.
The above goes for Raise the Dead. If you have a 16 man roster when you kill someone, you can't keep the extra zombie in "reserve", in case you have one of your players killed later. it's then or never.KarlLagerbottom - Jul 25, 2004 - 04:19 PM Post subject:
Darkson-
Oh, ok...after reading your explanation I went back and checked the RuleBook again. (I thought I had just done that but apparently not. )
So if I read that, and your explanation correctly, the "new" Rotter is created as a post-game step. (Sort-of) I had thought the rules stated that before the next game I could get a new Rotter. (Which I interpreted as a pre-Game 2 step. Thereby allowing me to cut someone there.)
Cool beans...thanks for setting me straight!
Thanks. -RobMordredd - Jul 26, 2004 - 07:18 AM Post subject:
Well the way I read it is that gaining a Rotter is part of the post match procedure, presumably done during the update team roster phase. In other words the same phase in which you may retire players. Also the bit about not being able to get a new Rotter if you already have 4 reads more like a "you can't exceed your limits" statement than anything else, at least to me. So maybe it is possible to retire a Rotter and replace him with a new one. Perhaps this needs to be Q&A'd. I'd be inclined to say that you can.
The reason you can't do the same for the Zombies from raise the dead is that you can't retire a player during the game, although if you've had a player killed you can certainly replace him with a new Zombie.Narkotic - Jul 26, 2004 - 09:07 AM Post subject:
Actually, I'd houserule that you might replace an old (niggled) rotter for a fresh one even if you already have 4 rotters in your squad. That the Beast kills somebody (and who's not healed afterwards) is a rare thing and you usually max out your rotters anyway, making the rot ability useless after 4-6 games. It would give the Nurgle team a little boost as they are notoriously underpowered anyway.Darkson - Jul 26, 2004 - 09:30 AM Post subject:
That's a houserule I'd agree to in my league. My REBBL Rotters team started 10 Beastmen and a Beast, and I could afford to buy an extra 2 Beastmen (one retired) and a Rotter in the time it took my Beast to claim a kill.Melifaxis - Jul 26, 2004 - 09:52 AM Post subject:
That's how I would go as well. Otherwise, what's the point of the Beast after you develop your team.KarlLagerbottom - Jul 26, 2004 - 04:12 PM Post subject:
Ok...House Rules aside, what is the strict interpretation of the rule. Given what Mordredd said about players being able to be retired as part of the post game sequence, couldn't you technically do that before taking the new Rotter? Thereby never exceding your maximum of 4 Rotters?
I want to be sure about "official" rules vs. "house" rules in the event I EVER get to start a league down here. I am jonsing for a league, and I can't always guarantee that all of the players will be cool. KarlLagerbottom - Jul 26, 2004 - 04:20 PM Post subject:
By the way...what makes them so underpowered? There are some tactics that I see making them competitive. Especially after some development.
I'm not saying that this describes me, but shouldn't a good coach be able to be competitive with any team? I don't know...I kind of think I can win with these guys.
Being Stupid?
-RobNarkotic - Jul 27, 2004 - 01:05 AM Post subject:
Lack of apothecary without any real compensation: wait until your Big Hand, Sure Hands Beastmen dies or get injured by a Thrown Rock. You won't be able to prevent the Beastmen turnover, and that will hurt especially when those are Beastmen with skills, mutations or stat increases- something you can't replace easily.
The rotters cost more than CWs which lead to an even more feeble starting roster. You trade in MA and AG for Reg and FA. FA is nice, but if the opponent doesn't pass your skill is wasted. Furthermore you lose 4 ST4 Ball handlers and get reg which won't help for 50% of the time...
Oh yes, the Beast of Nurgle is nice, but he won't win you games nor protect your valuable players.Graf_Arnhelm - Jul 27, 2004 - 01:05 AM Post subject:
Beast of Nurgle says the opposing player is infected as soon as he is killed and should be deleted from the opposing team roster. It sounds as it should be done mid-game. But then it says to take the Rotter after the AFTER the game (I'd say in step 4 of the post-match sequence, Purchases).
The way it sounds, the Beast works at two different moments for only one effect.
In the post-match sequence, step 4, Purchases, says a coach may retire players he doesn't want anymore. Here, it's unclear as to whether he first has to hire new players, then retire old one's, not allowing to hire new one's as a "third action", so to speak. But I think it doesn't really matter, you should be able to hire and retire as often as you wish during that step.
When all is said, I think it boils down to this: DURING the game,the Beast kills the player and "marks" him with the Rot. AFTER the game, the opposing coach crosses him from his roster, whereas you retire your 16th player to allow a new Rotter to be taken during step 4.
IMO, the wording of the rules is quite clear about how it should work.KarlLagerbottom - Jul 27, 2004 - 12:11 PM Post subject: Narkotic, I see what you mean about the Beastmen, but FA helps in that i t will also occassionaly stop someone from being blocked. (Its a shame that the Nurgle Beastmen don't have FA access. They really should be able to get it on doubles.)
In any event, and I can't remember who it was, but there was someone out there who has a successfull track record with Halflings. If that can be done than anything is possible.
By the way...I have an idea for how to make them more competitive. Its a two parter. One...allow for them to have more than four rotters if they "create one" and/or have a special wizard who can cast/spew a Stream of Corruption. Have it cover the same area, and work the same way as a Lightning Bolt, but a kill creates a new Rotter. Any thoughts?
-RobMordredd - Jul 28, 2004 - 04:15 AM Post subject:
The 2 Rotters teams in my league don't seem to be having any problems with team balance. One won a lot (it's been retired now) and caused many casualties. The other also causes many casualties but doesn't win. This, however, has more to do with that coach's playing style. (When he receives he places 11 men on the LOS, thinks for a minute, then removes 1 Beastman to fetch the ball. And he always starts his turn with a block from the BON.)
Anyway I just don't see a pressing need to beef them up, or for that matter a good argument.
And the Beastmen can get FA on a double, just like any other player with physical skill access.KarlLagerbottom - Jul 28, 2004 - 01:51 PM Post subject:
Well...even if they can get FA, which I'm still not so sure about if you read the skill description...Spikes with +1 AV should let the Beastmen hang around longer.
More on FA. Doesn't the description say something about only players that start with the skill can have it?
-Rob
P.S. All of this Anti-Rotter talk has me determined to make my Tournament team a Rotter team. It's too late for The Brouhaha but I WILL win a Tourney with Nurgle. I almost wish I could change my NAF Name to Papa Nurgle! KarlLagerbottom - Jul 28, 2004 - 02:06 PM Post subject:
My Fault, I just got my hands on the rule book and see that I am completely wrong. Looks like they can get FA. I was thinking of Regeneration.
Actually, not to confuse the topic, but in the case of a skill like regeneration...when the description states "...only applies to players that start with it on theri team list..." Is that saying only players that start with the skill, OR any player on a team that has access to that skill can aquire it?
If the latter is true than a nurgle Beastman can get Regeneration and a normal chaos Beastman can not. Any ruling on this?
-RobGraf_Arnhelm - Jul 29, 2004 - 12:45 AM Post subject:
Regeneration is not a Skill, but a Racial Characteristic (like Stunty or Right Stuff,eg).
Racial Characteristics cannot be learned in any way: a player must start with it on it's roster, there is no means of aquiring it later.
)
I am jonsing for a league, and I can't always guarantee that all of the players will be cool. 
