Strategy and Tactics - pro elves Zinak - Sep 06, 2004 - 08:46 PM Post subject: pro elves
So would you start a roster for a league with no thrower to save some cash?
ZinakBanelord - Sep 07, 2004 - 02:22 AM Post subject:
With Elves, yes.Mordredd - Sep 07, 2004 - 04:23 AM Post subject:
With pro Elves? No.slup - Sep 08, 2004 - 12:57 AM Post subject:
It depends
If i got 10K spare i would rather use them to turn a lineelf into a thrower, than buying extra fanfactor.Zombie - Sep 08, 2004 - 02:44 AM Post subject:
He's talking league here, not tournament. Fan factor is more important than anything, especially for an expensive AV7 team.
Pros of starting with thrower : cheap reroll (pass) that will come in handy; really helps your passing game once you pick up accurate.
Con of starting with him : keeps you from spreading the SPPs and getting a skill on every line-elf early.
Conclusion : starting with him helps your team win, but starting without him helps your team develop.
Both choices are good. Do whatever you feel most comfortable with.SuM - Sep 11, 2004 - 06:21 AM Post subject:
I say yes...
All Elves to me are possible Passers...
When a throw is failed, Pass Skill is cheaper then a Team Re-roll...Zinak - Sep 12, 2004 - 07:38 PM Post subject:
Well i am keeping him and have come up with this
1 thrower
7 line elves
1 blitzer
2 catchers
3 RR
5 fan factor( we are useing the playtest vault so you dont buy fan factor you get 5)
1 Apothecary...(I am av7)
I think This will do I know many will scream where is the second blitzer but I wanted the Apoth...
Zin'akMarcuz - Jan 14, 2005 - 03:55 AM Post subject:
no no, 2 blitzer, they are the most important player is this INCREDIBLE team!! Ciauz !Ardendron - Jan 21, 2005 - 06:41 AM Post subject:
My starting squad would look lijke this:
220 2 Blitzers
100 1 Catcher
070 1 Thrower
420 7 Lineelves
050 1 Reroll
050 1 Apo
090 9 FF
Oh I saw that you using the vault rules so I've 90k Gp to spend. Then I would drop the thrower so that I can buy two more rerolls. Or a bit riskier you only buy one Reroll and get a thrower and a second Catcher.
This depends on the team that are joining the league. If there are more bashy team I would start with 12 players to have one in reserver.
ArdendronTalons - Jan 31, 2005 - 06:50 AM Post subject:
Blitzers aren't that important!!!! I say this because for 3 seasons I have played the Pro Elves. The first season, I started with the 2 Blitzers but my team suffered when it came to playing Woodies or Skaven. The 2nd season I changed my way of thinking and started with 2 Throwers=140, 3 Catchers=300, 6 Linemen=360, 2 Rerolls=100, and a 9FF=90. It left me with 10k for the treasury. That season I dominated on the score sheet and racked up the wins early and often, starting the season 9-0. After the first game I purchased an Apoth, the second purchase was an extra linemen. The 3rd was my first Blitzer followed by my 4th Catcher. This makes for the most potent offense you can have. Use one thrower as your main weapon, the second acts as a lineman with the pass skill for those moments when you can't get to the ball with your star QB. Its a free reroll for 10k. Accurate isn't needed with this team either.....your thrower is accurate on a 2+ for quick and 3+for short. With the speed of your Catchers yoou don't need to be chucking it down the field with reckless abandon. The first skill is Block followed by sure hands. As for the third skill I'm leaning towards taking Hail Mary. The reason for this is stall ball against those grinding out bashy teams. Keep your thrower deep in your end and wait until the last possible second to heave it downfield. The catchers should be strategically placed down the field, spread out enough that the opponent can't cover all of them. Once you chuck it.....pick it up and its an easy TD for your elves. No blitzer hurts on defence, but at the begining of league play it is your elves offense that dominates teams. You can rectify this problem by giving one catcher these 2 skills first.....Block and Leap, followed by Stripball. That's my input, take it or leave it. Oh, I failed to mention......I won the league title that season and totally dominated from the start.Clan_Skaven - Jan 31, 2005 - 07:13 AM Post subject:
Ok I can agree with Talons on this, I played him in the league & he did beat me in the championship, my team being Skaven.
I will say this though, its rather tough to give suitable advice about what to take on most teams until, I have an idea of what makes up the rest of your league.
For example if your league has opponents like 1 Orc, 1 Chaos, 2 Dwarf, 1 Chaos Dwarf, & an Ogre team. I'd suggest different roster stratagies than if you had a team in a much more dodgey league. (Like mine for instance, but it was a different season where Talons won the cup.)
We have 1 Amazon, 2 Skaven, 1 Goblin, 1 Human, & Talon's Pro Elves. Or even yet again different advice if your league is a balanced one.
Probably not much help, but I hope it helps somewhat.
Rod.Doubleskulls - Jan 31, 2005 - 02:55 PM Post subject:
I'd say starting off with a 9-0 win can't count as a normal season. You've just got triple the SPPs that you'd expect off the first game.
In fact it sounds like you are probably much better than the competition or maybe you have some house rules that impact the performance of low Av teams.TanteKaethe - Feb 02, 2005 - 01:19 AM Post subject:
@doubleskulls
I think he meant 9 wins without a loss in his first games.
Cheers,
Tante KätheDoubleskulls - Feb 02, 2005 - 02:57 PM Post subject: Ah well.
TBH if you've gone 9-0 you are probably a much better coach that the guys you are playing against, so a sub-optimal lineup wouldn't make too much difference.Bevan - Feb 14, 2005 - 01:23 AM Post subject: What's wrong with Elves?
So why do these elves have such an abysmal record in tournaments?
Doubleskulls' stats show that the Elf team is consistently worse than any of the other elf teams in all regions and all forms of event, and in particular among the four teams that the Elf team does worst against are Wood Elf, Dark Elf and High Elf.
So why are they so bad? In reset style events the low armour shouldn't have too much effect, but their position players are OK and they can afford more of them (or more rerolls).
I had been planning to try these Elves but I need to know why they can't compete against other elves (or any other team). Maybe I should stick to the halflings. smeborg - Feb 14, 2005 - 12:44 PM Post subject:
My guess is that the killer for Elves is not having any Dodge in their starting line-up.
I am guessing that the AG4 teams that do consistently well in tournaments (Wood Elves and Skaven) do so because of AG4 + Dodge.
Without Dodge, you are doomed to the "Elven curse" (rolling ones).
Having said that, I am a bit surprised at the poor performance of the Pro-Elves, to the point that I might start playing them in tournaments. I found the side quite strong in a short league (this was when the catchers had Leap, rather than NOS). But without Leap, the side does not turn me on in quite the same way.
Cheers
SmeborgDoubleskulls - Feb 14, 2005 - 04:02 PM Post subject:
Av7 across the board sucks when you can only afford 11 players to start and no one starts with dodge and only 2 guys with block too.
The catchers with Catch,Leap were going to be an interesting tournament team. NoS doesn't help much on offence (AG4 & Catch is pretty effective even in 2-3 TZ) and is useless on defence.smeborg - Feb 15, 2005 - 01:47 PM Post subject:
Ian's right - you have no defence with AV7 and with the switch from Leap to NOS. Not just Linemen, but expensive positional players with no defensive skills tend to be exposed from the start.
I find roster choice difficult with the Elves. You need to take plenty of Catchers in order to have speed and counter-attacking possibilities. But at 100,000 a pop, this makes it difficult to start a tournament with more than 2 Re-rolls. And that's just not enough to protect against the "Elven curse"...
I would prefer a reversion to Leap.
Cheers
Smeborgabsent - Feb 15, 2005 - 07:29 PM Post subject:
i went 2-2 at a tourney with pro elves, should have gone 3-1, but failed 4 rerolls in a row by rolling another one afterwards, but it's absolutly essential you get dodge on your blitzer after game one so you have one player that can play defense, imo, and take kick in case your opponent is greedy and only puts one guy back to receive.
i took
1 blitzer
3 catchers
1 thrower
6 linemen
3 rerolls
1 FF
and it worked ok, i really like NOS actually, catching 2+ or throwing 2+ no matter is really sweet, but i think they are pretty bad team in tourneys and far too good in leagues, i was ripping people with them in leagues b/c the catchers and blitzers are so rediculous once they get skilled up a little. people were mad at them, and i even had a catcher die early in the league due to failed apothocary. cheap linemen and rediculous positions = good comboDoubleskulls - Feb 15, 2005 - 09:34 PM Post subject:
I just look at that team and I don't see any way to reliabily stop a competent bashy coach's offence. You are basically relying on them either being incompetent (i.e. not adequately protecting the ball carrier) or unlucky (failing to pick up the ball with a RR).
That's basically the same problem that DE/HE have IMO (poor defence) so your advantage of an extra RR is pretty minimal - and probably more than outweighed by the greater casualties you'll take.absent - Feb 16, 2005 - 01:28 PM Post subject:
yep, your opponent has to either play vs kick poorly, fail to pick up the ball, or you have to be so annoying with your blitzer that they get frustrated, so if the bashy coach knows what they are doing yeah it's real bad, but i didn't have a problem with low av cause i used the rr's to dodge away more consistantly, but they are not good, i agree, i did very well against skaven though, since my defense wasn't so important JaegoJones - Apr 19, 2005 - 07:53 PM Post subject:
Evrything said about them having no defence is unfortunatly true..
i have had to learn the hard way not to play close to the line.. but if you only put 3 guys on the line agenst woodies and rats then you force them to run into pass coverage.. last season woodies were the top offence in my league.. after playing them twice they had 4 total TD's.. to my 9. it's just a matter of getting NOS catchers in front of and next to other catchers and wardancers. of you can afford to double up then you have a chance to intercept without worry of a tackle zone..
as for offence i score in 2 everytime i get the ball.. it's just a matter of not throwing the ball until your catcher is going into the end zone with it.. qo a wuick pass to one catcher.. have him run to the other one.. hand off teh ball.. then dash for the end zone. first skill up i give them is sure feet for the extra movement.. sure dodge is great but not rolling a 1 in the endzone has won me more gamesh6c6t6b - Jul 10, 2005 - 11:21 PM Post subject:
woodies are the bomb!! i say start league with no thrower and get skills on all your liners...then get 1 thrower and develop him well (wont take long) then after the 3rd skill get the 2nd
!
Ah well.
