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Strategy and Tactics - Wood Elves in a league of bashers... Suggestions?

jetliracer - Nov 26, 2004 - 03:45 PM
Post subject: Wood Elves in a league of bashers... Suggestions?

We're a bunch of relative noobies setting up a BB league with 4 teams. Woodies, Norse, Necro and Undead.
We will be playing a double round-robin for a total of 6 games in the first season- and most likely scrapping the teams after that, this being our very first tournament and we'll probably want to correct some of our beginner's mistakes.
For practice I have played my Wood Elves in a couple of games over on FUMBBL against the Undead coach. I am getting absolutely cornholed in casualties. Sadly I'm expecting a similar treatment by the Norse and Necro.

This is the lineup I am considering:
1 WD
9 Linemen
1 Thrower

2 RR
6 FF

I decided against the tree as he just seems to unreliable - though with the new rules he's a lot better. Also I don't want to spend the money on the miniature Wink

.
I like having the thrower even though elves are excellent passers in their own right. Gives me a better shot at throwing those really long passes - well all passes for that matter - and also putting those completion points in the bank. But maybe I should get another lino instead and then spend the money on FF instead bringing it up to 8?

On defence I am bit unsure of how to set up and how to counter the might of the mummies (among others) besides by slowly retreating thus allowing them only one block a turn. Hopefully seeing an opening for some sack time by my WD.
Any suggestions on a defensive setup - and/or comments on my lineup Question

Thanx in advance.

Francesco - Nov 26, 2004 - 04:22 PM
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I think

11 Lineman
3 RR
8 FF

is better, but you have just a little for build your team.

Surely the trower is useless. a lino and a RR is better.

I think you have to fear necros more than Undead and Norse, but I know a little Woodies and I can't say more....

Zombie - Nov 26, 2004 - 04:58 PM
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10 or 11 line-elves is the way to go, and you need a minimum of 8 FF.

KarlLagerbottom - Nov 26, 2004 - 05:11 PM
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jetliracer-

I am sure he will weigh-in here if he sees it, but jaylazer is a very proficient Wood Elf coach. If you PM him, I am sure he will have some suggestions for you.

-Rob

Spazzfist - Nov 26, 2004 - 07:45 PM
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The wardancer is great for getting into those bashy-team caged and popping out the ball.

I started with the following in my last league (which I did win! King

):

10 line-elves (don't call them line"men" or they will dodge like humans!)
1 wardancer
2 rerolls
8 FF

You really need the high FF to buy back players, the thrower is a luxury that the team can definitely do without at the beginning - far better to have the extra FF to earn more cash - to replace the inevitable casualties! Skull

You need a bit of luck to get past your first game relatively unscathed - if you can do that - buy an apothecary! then go for more position players - a catcher is far better than a thrower to begin with IMHO.

As for the players, make sure to get each line-elf to make one quick pass to someone, anfd give them the 1 SPP for the pass. Then it won;t matter who gets the MVP they will get a skill! (dodge is better than block for woodies)

Hope this helps!

Spazz

Aramil - Nov 27, 2004 - 04:08 AM
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Well, as Zombie very well explained in the past, the high FF starts to become useful at the 6th match (if I remember correctly)... being your league of just 6 matches and after that the team is thrown away... well, I think I would go with a tournament roster.

This is the roster I always use with my Wood Elves in tournaments:

2 WD
3 Catchers
6 Linelves
1 RR
2 FF

Yesy, you have only 1 RR, but you start with 5 dodge-players... and that's what you need! Wink

Always dodge with the 5 that have the re-roll and protect the ball. Dodge with the linelves only if necessary to be not beaten up... and block ONLY two dice in favour... you don't have enough armour to remain in contact with the opponents players.
Remember: When the game begins to become tought, the elves start to RUN (away)! Mr. Green

Dave - Nov 27, 2004 - 07:18 AM
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I tend to agree with aramil ..

you need speed and skills.

kick as first skill on a line elf, kick deep and get the catchers between the thrower / whatever that picks up the ball and the rest of his team .. call in a WD for the blitz and score, assuming the bal got loose that is ..

Zombie - Nov 27, 2004 - 08:13 AM
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I personally feel that fan factor is an all or nothing kind of thing. Either it's worth having 9 FF (8 with wood elves because of the way it adds up) or it's not. If it's not, than better to get 8 than 9, better to get 7 than 8, better to get 6 than 7, etc. In a league of 6 games and no playoffs, i'd certainly go with 1 FF.

Of course, if you guys decide to keep your teams for the next season, you'll be cursing yourself for not starting with 8 FF. In that case, you might be better off restarting a new team with 8 than keeping your team going, even if the other coaches keep their teams. Still, don't go half way and start with 6 FF. Going half way only ensures that your setup is optimal in neither situation!

Try the following roster :

2 Wardancers
1 Catcher
8 Line-elves
2 RR
1 FF

First purchase should be an apothecary, and then buy as many line-elves as you can.

I prefer a setup with 2 rerolls than 3 catchers for two reasons. The main reason is that you need rerolls to make the leap skill effective, and that is the main defense that wood elves have so you need it. The second, less important reason is that catchers have ST2 which makes you weaker on defense. Offense with wood elves is never a problem. Concentrate everything (including skill picks) on improving defense and you'll do well. Oh, and if you roll a double with anyone, take leader!

Aramil's setup may be very good for tournaments, but for a short league i'm pretty sure that mine is much superior. First of all, you'll lose players and gain money, so you'll need to buy players fast. That's why you need to concentrate on buying line-elves. In a tournament, you start every game with 11 players. In your league, you'll find that you start most games with 8 to 10. Secondly, having rerolls tends to be more crucial in leagues than tournaments. Don't ask me why, i couldn't quite say. But in my experience, it is!

Spazzfist - Nov 27, 2004 - 10:35 AM
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[quote="Zombie"]Aramil's setup may be very good for tournaments, but for a short league i'm pretty sure that mine is much superior.

Of course it is! You're Zombie! Worship

Zombie wrote:

First of all, you'll lose players and gain money, so you'll need to buy players fast. That's why you need to concentrate on buying line-elves.

How do you suppose that he will be able to buy anything with only a 1FF? The FF is extremely important to the young WE team for it's ability to buy back players, an apothecary, etc. How do you think the winnings are generated?

Maybe you can send me a link to tell me how FF is not important until after the 6th game, because I just don't see it!

Spazz

Bevan - Nov 27, 2004 - 01:49 PM
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Spazzfist wrote:

A 1FF team will have spent 80,000gps extra on psotion players and rerolls, so it is a stronger team than a 9FF team. It takes 5-6 games for teh 9FF team to earn an extra 80,000 due to the higher FF, so after about 6 games the 9FF team will have as much money invested in players and rerolls as the 1FF team, but the 1FF team will have bene stronger until that time.

This ignores effects from the kickoff table (which are important), dicontinuity in the crowd effect table (also important) and possible increase in survivability for the 1FF team due to better players and more rerolls.

Intermediate FF is usually not as good as extremes so I would go for the 1FF or the 8FF version in this particular situation, but 1FF is probably better.

Zombie - Nov 27, 2004 - 02:18 PM
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http://www.blood-bowl.net/Tactics/FF9_BB2k1_Zombie.html

Doubleskulls - Nov 27, 2004 - 04:04 PM
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FF 1 is the way to go. With the new Kick Off table FF is less important and you won't recoup your investment in 6 games.

Zombie's line up is probably the best FF1 line up.

Try to get TDs with Line elves - having skilled War Dancers & Catchers is nice - but Line elves with Block and/or Dodge make your opponent's life difficult.

Kick is an important skill for you too - the ability to put the ball deep is vital to disrupting the way strength teams want to play.

Strip Ball will be very useful on a War Dancer too - especially as none of your opponents start with Sure Hands.

DukeJan - Nov 28, 2004 - 05:32 AM
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1) if you start with one or two positionals, start with an APO.
2) If you want to play more than 6 matches with the team, start with high FF.
3) If you start with line elves only, buy an APO before you buy the first positional.

I started a WE team with 2 catchers, 9 linos, 9FF and 2 RR in the OLBBL and was lucky, I survived the first game. They're now a pretty tough bunch with 2 ST4 players, an AG4 catcher, a guard lino and a, at TR 150 completely unnecessary, tree. This is a risky route though, because you might be down to 9 players before you get your apo, as happened with my wood elves in the PBEMBBL.

Buying a tree early on might not be a bad idea. As you reach TR 120, which is very soon, you will encounter tackle and guard players. If you start with positionals, it's unlikely two or more of your linos will have block yet. Once you have a few well developed linos the tree can probably be made redundant.

If you play enough matches, for example take one season to develop your team and go for the cup the next season. Start with 11 linos, 8 FF and 3 RR (or 2RR and an APO). Then buy an APO or RR, 2 WD , 3 catcers and next a thrower. Let your linos take the blows.

If you don't care about life expectancy, take Aramil's roster. It will be good early on, and with LRB 4 you will get early wins and (hopefully) rapidly gain FF as a consequence. It's a huge gamble though as that roster has no stamina whatsoever.

jetliracer - Nov 28, 2004 - 06:08 AM
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So if I read all the great input correctly roster selection is highly dependant on the number of games to be played. Also that FF in terms of the kick off table isn't as important as it was.
Perhaps wood elves weren't the best choice for just 6 games seeing that they only have a very short time to earn the money it costs to buy reinforcements - which they'll surely need. Maybe I should suggest we play more games and perhaps introduce playoffs... Also I suspect it will be way more fun to keep the teams for more seasons than just scrapping them after 6 games.

What I'm thinking is that all my opponents have relatively cheap players and should easily be able to field the full 11 every time. I'm thinking maybe to start with the apo rather than trusting my luck to get through the first game without any deaths. Oh and hope for a lucky draw in the tournament schedule and have Undead and Necro maul each in the first game other while I run around scoring multiple TDs against the Norse Smile

Oh almost forgot any suggestions on how to set up defensively?

Zombie - Nov 28, 2004 - 03:32 PM
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DukeJan wrote:

1) if you start with one or two positionals, start with an APO.

Never, ever start with an apo, unless you already have 5 or 6 rerolls and nothing better to spend your money on (e.g. amazons).

The money is better spent on an extra reroll. You can still buy the apo for 50k after the first game, but the reroll will cost 100k by then. The 50k saved is very significant, especially in a short league.

The only way that starting with an apo is worth it is for a player worth more than 50k to die (and i'm not talking serious injury here, but actual death) and for your apo to roll 2+ successfully. That's pretty unlikely, especially considering that if your opponent is also playing his first game (and in a well set up league, he should be), he won't have any dirty players and probably won't have anyone with mighty blow or claw either.

jetliracer - Dec 01, 2004 - 02:57 PM
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Thanks guys for all of your great feedback.
It is highly appreciated.

-jetliracer-

h6c6t6b - Jul 10, 2005 - 11:26 PM
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gotta go with zombie....FF its your lifeline!!

bunnygirl - Jul 13, 2005 - 02:13 PM
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Hello!!!

I'm running a Woodies team too, and have started the league ok, but am suffereing a lot of injuries - 2 niggling injuries and various knocked out for the majority of the game - down to 5 at one point!

When I'm receiving the ball my opponents don't have a chance (no surprise there then!), but my method is a little off on the set up if I'm kicking - I just get my ass whooped - any tips?

Doubleskulls - Jul 13, 2005 - 05:30 PM
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Patience. Wait for an opening and don't try and force the pace of the game too much. If you fling a war dancer into the cage every turn (or equivalent) you will get the ball free and probably win. However you may well not have a team at the end of the match.