NAF World Headquarters
Rules Questions - Diving Catch Questions
Zoar - Mar 10, 2003 - 01:35 AM
Post subject: Diving Catch Questions
LRB2 p.34
Quote:
Diving Catch
The player may use this skill if the ball was thrown to him and missed. It allows the player to move one square after the ball has scattered. This move is made after the ball has scattered, but before it hits the ground or can be caught.
The main question is:
A player with Catch and Diving Catch has a pass (either accurate or inaccurate) thrown to him, which lands in the square he is in. He fails the first attempt to catch the ball, then fails the second attempt to catch the ball using the Catch skill. Can he attempt to catch the ball a third time using his Diving Catch skill since the ball can only scatter one square away from him? This would seem to violate LRB2 p.15
Quote:
VERY IMPORTANT: No matter how many re-rolls you have, or what type they are, you may never re-roll a single dice roll more than once.
Another Diving Catch question:
2. Can you use Diving Catch if the pass was accurate and the coach did not choose to use a re-roll (Catch skill, Pro skill, Team re-roll, Leader re-roll) to re-roll the initial failed catch?
I had always interpreted the Diving Catch skill as being used when an inaccurate pass (or Hail Mary Pass) happens to land in a square next to the intended receiver after scattering the mandatory three squares. But after a brief argument with another player in my league, I realize the wording from the Diving Catch skill quoted above may not support this interpretation. I based my argument on the fact that the move is made before the ball can be caught, so the skill could not be used once an attempt to catch the ball has been made. Any thoughts? Have there been any rulings or previous questions about this in the past?
-Zoar
Doubleskulls - Mar 10, 2003 - 03:10 AM
Post subject: Re: Diving Catch Questions
You can only Diving Catch an pass aimed at you (i.e. inaccurate or hail mary) - not a bouncing ball. So no to both your questions.
Its not a reroll, it just allows you to move to an adjacent square.
spree - Mar 10, 2003 - 03:28 AM
Post subject:
Good question, made me think for a minute but it all comes down to the interpretation of the skill...the answer to your question is in the wording of diving catch. "The player may use this skill if the ball was thrown to him and missed" - this is referring to an inaccurate pass, it is not referring to a missed catch on an accurate pass.
Thus, the situation you propose is not possible..
* If the pass is accurate and the receiver fails to catch the ball twice (after Catch re-roll) then the ball will scatter, no Diving Catch allowed.
* If the pass is inaccurate the intended receiver can use Diving Catch skill to move one square.
Having said that I can see how the skill could be interpreted otherwise - "..if the ball was thrown to him and missed.". Does 'missed' refer to a missed pass or a missed catch or both. In my mind it's a missed pass.
Hmm...after having re-read the Diving Catch skill several times now I can see potential for cheese!! The player does not have to dive in the direction of the ball, the rule allows the player to dive in any direction they want. Has anyone used it in this way? Does this seem cheesy?
Bevan - Mar 10, 2003 - 11:56 PM
Post subject:
spree wrote:
Hmm...after having re-read the Diving Catch skill several times now I can see potential for cheese!! The player does not have to dive in the direction of the ball, the rule allows the player to dive in any direction they want. Has anyone used it in this way? Does this seem cheesy?
This is absolutely correct. You can use it even if the ball is landing 3 squares away and you don't have to move closer to the ball. You might prefer to move out of a tackle zone by moving in the opposite direction. Or you might want to put TZs on an opponent. However, it is difficult to set up a situation in advance where this move away from the ball is any use, so its not excessively cheesy. 
Tysonium - Mar 11, 2003 - 12:27 AM
Post subject:
I would rule that this could not be done... to me the operant phrase is "or can be caught". If you made a Catch roll (even rerolled), then you "could have caught" it (even if you didn't).
Quote:
LRB2 p.34
Quote:
Diving Catch
The player may use this skill if the ball was thrown to him and missed. It allows the player to move one square after the ball has scattered. This move is made after the ball has scattered, but before it hits the ground or can be caught.
The main question is:
A player with Catch and Diving Catch has a pass (either accurate or inaccurate) thrown to him, which lands in the square he is in. He fails the first attempt to catch the ball, then fails the second attempt to catch the ball using the Catch skill. Can he attempt to catch the ball a third time using his Diving Catch skill since the ball can only scatter one square away from him? This would seem to violate LRB2 p.15
Doubleskulls - Mar 11, 2003 - 02:58 AM
Post subject:
You are selectively quoting. Its quite clear that the "can be caught" phrase refers to when the Diving Catch move takes place, not if the player is eligable to move.
This isn't that cheesy at all - you've almost certainly just turned over and only 1 player on your team is allowed to make a Diving Catch move.
Tysonium - Mar 11, 2003 - 09:24 AM
Post subject:
I am not disagreeing with you but I don't see that this is a selective quote... the entire sentence supports that in this particular situation (failing to catch a ball then using DC to move underneath the bounce), it is not possible to use this skill. I merely pointed out the part of the sentence that in my opinion points out why this can't work. If you've tried to catch the ball already and failed, then the ball has hit the ground, since it could have been caught (but wasn't). The text on DC is very clear on that. It allows you to move while the ball is in the air/scattering, not after it has hit the ground either due to nobody being there or failed catch attempt.
I don't think the skill is cheesy at all. It's just that the way that I read it, by the time you've made your catch roll you've missed your Diving Catch window of opportunity (since you were in the right square in the first place, you didn't need it). I disagree that it would allow you a third attempt to catch the ball.
Quote:
You are selectively quoting. Its quite clear that the "can be caught" phrase refers to when the Diving Catch move takes place, not if the player is eligable to move.
This isn't that cheesy at all - you've almost certainly just turned over and only 1 player on your team is allowed to make a Diving Catch move.
Doubleskulls - Mar 11, 2003 - 10:13 AM
Post subject:
Sorry I misread your post - you can't make a Diving Catch move after anyone has attempted to catch the ball.
daloonieshaman - Mar 12, 2003 - 10:43 PM
Post subject:
Here is the way we play it:
Roll for accuracy
if accurate you may catch the ball (or attempt to catch the ball)
if the catch fails and (rerolls fail) then it is a turn over scatter the ball 3 times
If the ball is inaccurate:
Scatter the ball 3 times
Diving catch player may move one square to try to catch the ball
caught or not it is still a turnover
Doubleskulls - Mar 13, 2003 - 02:35 AM
Post subject:
daloonieshaman wrote:
Here is the way we play it:
Roll for accuracy
if accurate you may catch the ball (or attempt to catch the ball)
if the catch fails and (rerolls fail) then it is a turn over scatter the ball 3 times
If the ball is inaccurate:
Scatter the ball 3 times
Diving catch player may move one square to try to catch the ball
caught or not it is still a turnover
This isn't the official way to play it
- Make the pass
- Inaccurate - roll D8 3 times for scatter
- DC moves 1 square
- Roll to catch or bounce ball
If the pass is accurate or fumbled you don't get to make a DC move.
GalakStarscraper - Mar 13, 2003 - 06:29 AM
Post subject:
daloonieshaman wrote:
Here is the way we play it:
Roll for accuracy
if accurate you may catch the ball (or attempt to catch the ball)
if the catch fails and (rerolls fail) then it is a turn over scatter the ball 3 times
If the ball is inaccurate:
Scatter the ball 3 times
Diving catch player may move one square to try to catch the ball
caught or not it is still a turnover
Why??? .... not only does this really screw up a fun very official rule (ie the its not a turnover unless it comes to rest not in one of your player's hands rule), but it also makes Diving Catch a near worthless skill ... yuck! I'll take a big pass on your league's rules thanks.
Galak
BlanchPrez - Mar 13, 2003 - 09:01 AM
Post subject:
Okay, here's another situation. What if the inaccurate pass bounces back to the square where the catcher with Diving Catch is, but he misses the catch (even with the Catch skill re-roll), and the ball scatters one more square. Can you use Diving Catch then?
Chris
Doubleskulls - Mar 13, 2003 - 10:25 AM
Post subject:
No, you can only use Diving Catch immediately after resolving where an inaccurate pass goes. Once the ball bounces or someone has made a catch attempt you can no longer use Diving Catch.
Shortarse - Mar 24, 2003 - 10:57 AM
Post subject:
Reading all this I just want to double check: Can use DC if the ball was intended for someone else and due to inaccuracy (BUT BEFORE HITTING THE GROUND OR ANYONE ATTEMPTING TO CATCH IT) if DC would put you in a position to catch it? And also can you use it to intercept? And can it be used in conjunction with pass block?
skummy - Mar 24, 2003 - 11:32 AM
Post subject:
DC can only be used by the player the ball was thrown to. It isn't a defensive skill.
Bevan - Mar 24, 2003 - 03:04 PM
Post subject:
skummy wrote:
DC can only be used by the player the ball was thrown to. It isn't a defensive skill.
That's right. Only the intended receiver can use Diving Catch. When I first started playing I misread the rule and had two Diving Catch players thinking I could throw the ball to an empty square between them and have a good chance of one or other ending with the ball. Sadly this is not possible under the rules. 
Shortarse - Mar 24, 2003 - 04:31 PM
Post subject:
Quote:
DC can only be used by the player the ball was thrown to. It isn't a defensive skill.
Ahh shame.
Darkson - Mar 24, 2003 - 08:25 PM
Post subject:
Ashardian wrote:
And also can you use it to intercept? And can it be used in conjunction with pass block?
Not unless your opponent is throwing the ball to your catcher.
skummy - Mar 25, 2003 - 07:00 AM
Post subject:
Quote:
Bevan:
That's right. Only the intended receiver can use Diving Catch. When I first started playing I misread the rule and had two Diving Catch players thinking I could throw the ball to an empty square between them and have a good chance of one or other ending with the ball. Sadly this is not possible under the rules.
This brings up the amusing mental image of two Elves diving for the same square and knocking each other out.
BenArd - May 14, 2003 - 08:16 AM
Post subject:
Another question, does all this mean that, if your catcher is in a TZ of two, you cannot deliberately throw the ball one square in front of him (assuming it is accurate) and then use diving catch to move into that square and catch the ball thereby taking you out of the tackle zones and one square nearer the endzone? technically speaking if the ball is accurate but does not end up in the square in which the catcher is in then it has "missed"
skummy - May 14, 2003 - 09:18 AM
Post subject:
No, you can only try to use Diving Catch if the ball was thrown to you. If you throw it a square in front of your catcher, he can't use DC at all.
Dave - May 15, 2003 - 06:02 AM
Post subject:
daloonieshaman wrote:
Here is the way we play it:
Roll for accuracy
if accurate you may catch the ball (or attempt to catch the ball)
if the catch fails and (rerolls fail) then it is a turn over scatter the ball 3 times
It's not a turnover untill after the three scatter rolls and the bounce, assuming none of your players caught it. If one of your players catchwes the ball before it hits the ground (after the three scatters) or after the bounce (the bounce) it's not a turnover. (isn't it?)
Doubleskulls - May 15, 2003 - 09:14 AM
Post subject:
Its only a turnover if you fumble the pass or lose possession (after everything has come to rest).
Dave - May 15, 2003 - 10:59 AM
Post subject:
that's it bro 