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Rules Questions - Seekrit Wepunz
Spazzfist - Jan 10, 2005 - 10:55 AM
Post subject: Seekrit Wepunz
Having re-read the rules in the LRB for the goblin secret weapons, I have a couple of questions:
1) Does the secret weapon have to be on the pitch for a drive in order to be booted out? Meaning - could a secret weapon be held in reserve but then booted out even though it was never played?
2) In reading the rules for the bombs, it seems that there would be nothing stopping a player from intentionally throwing a bomb to a team-mate (possibly to increase his range - by throwing to the team mate - who, if successfully caught, would throw it again on a 4+). Is there something I am missing?
So then what about handing it off? (E.g. the bomber is in one or more tackle zones, but can light the bomb and then hand it off to another player who is not in any). Can this be done? Would the bomber have to make the 2+ roll to avoid premature detonation and then the receiver a 4+ to throw it again?
Thanks for the help,
Spazz
KarlLagerbottom - Jan 10, 2005 - 11:51 AM
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A couple of associated questions...
1. Can an empty square be targeted by the Bombadier?
2. Is this an action performed by the Bombadeir that is resolved like a pass, OR is this the team's pass action for the turn?
3. Is there any restriction to the length of the throw, or can it be at the range of the entire range ruler?
4. Do skills like Strong Arm, Pass, or Catch effect these throws? (Yes I know the Bomber doesn't have and can't get these...the question is assuming that a secondary player makes a throw or interception is attempted by someone with one of these skills.)
Oh Boy is this great!!!! 
-Rob
Spazzfist - Jan 10, 2005 - 12:24 PM
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I know you love these "cut and paste" sessions - so here goes!
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
1. Can an empty square be targeted by the Bombadier?
Simply put, yes. The idea would be that you toss to the empty square so that the opposition cannot try to throw it back - then you would hope for it favourably scatter.
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
2. Is this an action performed by the Bombadeir that is resolved like a pass, OR is this the team's pass action for the turn?
I would think that it is it's own special action - call it a "bombing" action, and should not count for the team's pass this turn. Also any subsequent throws (of the tossed bomb) are done outside of normal play.
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
3. Is there any restriction to the length of the throw, or can it be at the range of the entire range ruler?
Well stunties do add one band to the range of their throws. I would think that the same applies for this. I would say that you could throw as far as you can (ruler with modifications)!
KarlLagerbottom wrote:
4. Do skills like Strong Arm, Pass, or Catch effect these throws? (Yes I know the Bomber doesn't have and can't get these...the question is assuming that a secondary player makes a throw or interception is attempted by someone with one of these skills.)
I wouldn't see why not. In fact if somebody is feeling a little daring, they may even try Diving Catch to get it from an empty square and have a chance at lobbing it out.
But now I have a couple more questions about this.....
1) Do you get the interception SPP points for intercepting a thrown bomb?
2) Is it only on a natural "1" that the bomb will go off prematurely, or will a modified "1" do it as well (for tackle zones, range, etc.)
Spazz 
KarlLagerbottom - Jan 10, 2005 - 01:05 PM
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Funny you should ask about the modified rolls...I was considering the impacts of NOS. 
I guess the Gobbos can add Nurgle's Rotters to the teams that are not an ideal opponent.
-Rob
Spazzfist - Jan 10, 2005 - 01:42 PM
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Well IMO the premature explosion should only be on a natural "1". After that the roll to throw the ball can be modified which may result in the fumble which will have much the same effect anyways.
Spazz
Mordredd - Jan 11, 2005 - 06:49 AM
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I think that it is the teams pass action, as there is no special bombardier action and that's also the case for TTM.
Spazzfist - Jan 11, 2005 - 07:04 AM
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Good point....
Ach! But how much do the gobbos throw the ball anyways?
Spazz
Xtreme - Jan 11, 2005 - 09:45 PM
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Most of the Bomb questions are answered by the part in the rules that says throwing the Bomb is worked out in the same way as throwing the ball.
Never thought of throwing one to a teamate. Can't see anything wrong with that could be pretty interesting.
Spazzfist - Jan 12, 2005 - 06:35 AM
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Xtreme wrote:
Most of the Bomb questions are answered by the part in the rules that says throwing the Bomb is worked out in the same way as throwing the ball.
Okay but my big question is that it says that players can "interecept" the bomb, but would they get SPPs for doing do?
Spazz
Mordredd - Jan 12, 2005 - 07:37 AM
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I'd assume so. An interception is an interception as far as I'm concerned. And you do get completions for accurate and caught dump offs so there is a parallel precedent.
Francesco - Jan 12, 2005 - 08:08 PM
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You don't take spp for intercepting the bomb.
You can throw in an empty square.
Is the passing action for the turn.
Spazzfist - Mar 08, 2005 - 06:05 AM
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Okay, here is one that has been posed to me:
If a player has multiple bombers ont he pitch, can he throw multiple bombs in a turn?
My initial reaction would be yes. This is not a pass action, and there is nothing in the rules stating that you cannot, so I would tend to lean this way. Also, if somebody is crazy enought to field that many bombetrs, then he is not necessarily somebody I want to cross! 
Thoughts?
Spazz
Melifaxis - Mar 08, 2005 - 10:25 AM
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I guess my first question is where does it say you can have 4 bombardiers in the LRB? 
I'm betting it doesn't, which is why this question isn't answered. I know the gnomish roster is the source of the question, but you're no allowing all of the MBBL2 rosters so I don't see why you'd want to allow 4 bombardiers.
Even the new secret weapons rules from Fanatic Magazine #6 limit bombardiers to 0-1 per gobbo team (although it still just says it's done using the rules for throwing the football).
My 2 copper.
Spazzfist - Mar 08, 2005 - 10:28 AM
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Thanks Mel,
I guess that clear it up! Only One bombadier means only one bomb per turn! Simple!
Paul - Mar 08, 2005 - 07:14 PM
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Just cracking open the rule book for some of these...
Quote:
1) Does the secret weapon have to be on the pitch for a drive in order to be booted out? Meaning - could a secret weapon be held in reserve but then booted out even though it was never played?
The last paragraph in the rules for Secret Weapons (before the rules on each type) says that "Note you must make a Penalty Roll for a secret weapon if the player carying it has been on the field." So if the guy stays in the box, hes clear.
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2) In reading the rules for the bombs, it seems that there would be nothing stopping a player from intentionally throwing a bomb to a team-mate (possibly to increase his range - by throwing to the team mate - who, if successfully caught, would throw it again on a 4+). Is there something I am missing?
I don't see why they couldn't. A) they're taking a risk with the bomb going off in their players hands (and causing a turnover if I'm not mistaken) and b) If I catch the bomb, theres no rule that says I have to throw it back at the bomber, I can go and toss it down field into some other player if I want.
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2. Is this an action performed by the Bombadeir that is resolved like a pass, OR is this the team's pass action for the turn?
I think this should be resolved like a pass, not use the pass action. If you look at the throw team mate skill, (the only other situation where something other than the ball is thrown) specifically says that it counts as your teams Pass Action, while the Bomb rules don't.
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1) Do you get the interception SPP points for intercepting a thrown bomb?
In my heart I'd say no, as it doesn't seem to follow the spirit of the rules, but the rules seem to say yes, so I guess thats a good one.
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2) Is it only on a natural "1" that the bomb will go off prematurely, or will a modified "1" do it as well (for tackle zones, range, etc.)
the roll is to light the fuse, its a straight up 2+ roll required, no modifiers. If the bomb is fumbled on the throw, well, hopefully the bombers got the duck and cover skill.
DarkDancer17 - Mar 17, 2005 - 02:56 AM
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A couple more questions... regarding bombs, and such...
1. Can a bomber hand off the bomb, as opposed to chuck it? True, this will probably get him blown up too... but hey, it's a tactic. 
2. If a bomber, standing on the sideline, makes the light the fuse roll... then fumbles the throw, and it scatters into the crowd, does the crowd chuck the bomb back in as a ball?
3. If you throw the bomb to a player holding the ball, must they drop the ball in order to try to catch the incoming ball? Can they retain the ball, and let the bomb scatter as if they missed the catch?
Yeah.... we have loons in our League.
Da_Scum - Mar 17, 2005 - 09:03 AM
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DarkDancer17 wrote:
A couple more questions... regarding bombs, and such...
1. Can a bomber hand off the bomb, as opposed to chuck it? True, this will probably get him blown up too... but hey, it's a tactic.
2. If a bomber, standing on the sideline, makes the light the fuse roll... then fumbles the throw, and it scatters into the crowd, does the crowd chuck the bomb back in as a ball?
3. If you throw the bomb to a player holding the ball, must they drop the ball in order to try to catch the incoming ball? Can they retain the ball, and let the bomb scatter as if they missed the catch?
Yeah.... we have loons in our League.
He he oh I love the chaos my lads cause on a field...
1. Sure, nothing wrong with handing it to someone who can throw it better. Just remember it's the same risk if he blows the lighting of the fuze and for blowing the handoff...
2. That one gets house rules a lot. On the first throw then sure it could easily be automatic. (And I've used that once to gamble getting the bomb further down the field ) However if it's later throws then I like the idea that it becomes a catch roll of an AG2 or AG1 to be able to throw it back. (reflecting the lunatics scrambling to get the heck out of the way in the seats ruining the concentration of those eager to catch and return the package.)
3. If they are holding the ball I think they are stuck holding onto it as the coach would kill them if they drop the thing. They just grit their teeth and hope to be still standing with the ball. Or at least what's left of them...
Melifaxis - Mar 17, 2005 - 09:30 AM
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1) I would say no as the LRB says it is done using "the rules for throwing the football" not handing it off...you could of course House Rule it to be handing off
2) I would say the crowd would throw it back in as they would throw a failed pass attempt back in...
3) Well strictly according to the book they must make a catching roll...
Da_Scum - Mar 17, 2005 - 11:24 AM
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Melifaxis wrote:
1) I would say no as the LRB says it is done using "the rules for throwing the football" not handing it off...you could of course House Rule it to be handing off
2) I would say the crowd would throw it back in as they would throw a failed pass attempt back in...
3) Well strictly according to the book they must make a catching roll...
1. I can understand both points, but playing hot-potato appeals to a Goblin sense of humour.
2. What and pass up all those fan casualties? I can see the logic in it being done exactly as a failed pass, the only problem being that burning fuse thingie attached to it. It's why I like the house rule of what happens if it goes through multiple passes. Though going "by-the-book"does have the bright side of granting a better chance for more player's going home in a hand-basket...(provided I can find who nicked my star-throwers hand!)
3. Yes evil is it not? A Bloodbowl player is so conditioned to "catch" something thrown over that "sorta" looks like the ball they'll drop the current ball to catch the "newer shiner why is it hissing?" ball.
Gotta love this game! 
Melifaxis - Mar 17, 2005 - 11:42 AM
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Keep in mind the LRB doesn't say anything about having to drop a ball if you need to make a catch roll. Why not a one-handed catch?
Da_Scum - Mar 17, 2005 - 12:59 PM
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Melifaxis wrote:
Keep in mind the LRB doesn't say anything about having to drop a ball if you need to make a catch roll. Why not a one-handed catch?
True but it does seem to refer back to older rules where a player is only allowed to carry one ball at a time. (I remember that in 2nd edition.) LRB wouldn't have it as they likely thought we'd done away with the problem. 
Melifaxis - Mar 17, 2005 - 01:01 PM
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Get in on Galak's list on TBB for clarification
Da_Scum - Mar 17, 2005 - 01:05 PM
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Melifaxis wrote:
Get in on Galak's list on TBB for clarification
I tried, the door says "Goblins Keep OUT, dis means youze!"
Evidently he still hasn't forgiven my lads for beating his chaos team....
Melifaxis - Mar 17, 2005 - 01:10 PM
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Drees up one of the boyz as a dwarf then...there's even a dwarf bombardier mini
Doubleskulls - Mar 17, 2005 - 03:31 PM
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DarkDancer17 wrote:
A couple more questions... regarding bombs, and such...
1. Can a bomber hand off the bomb, as opposed to chuck it? True, this will probably get him blown up too... but hey, it's a tactic.
2. If a bomber, standing on the sideline, makes the light the fuse roll... then fumbles the throw, and it scatters into the crowd, does the crowd chuck the bomb back in as a ball?
3. If you throw the bomb to a player holding the ball, must they drop the ball in order to try to catch the incoming ball? Can they retain the ball, and let the bomb scatter as if they missed the catch?
Yeah.... we have loons in our League.
Officially I'd say no, no, they can catch & hold. Obviously you can house rule it as you like.