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Strategy and Tactics - Help, Human League team roster...
Frantic - Jul 03, 2007 - 03:49 PM
Post subject: Help, Human League team roster...
Hi!
Were a bunch of guys that are planing to start a league. I have allways played Skaven, Goblins and som other teams, but this time its the Humans turn 
.
League info:
FF = Free
2 Cups: We are planing to play two of them at the first season. When we have played half were going to play the Spike cup and at end of season the Chaos cup.
Other Teams in the league: All of them! (exept goblins and halflings)
Rules: Living rulebook 5.0
And finaly: Which skills should i´ll take and why?
So now i´ll need youre help with whitch start "line" for humans you think i´ll should play...
I have two proposal: Do you think anyone of them is allright or do you have a third and better alternetive(s)?
Alternetive one:
1 One Thrower
1 Catcher
4 Blizers
5 Linemen
5 RR
Total: 1000000
Comments: With some luck i can buy the Apothecary after the first match and with five rr i will be able to manage allmost all of the plays with or without a couple of cas on my thrower and catcher.
Alternetive Two:
2 Thrower
2 Catcher
2 Blizers
1 Ogre
4 Linemen
1 Apothecary
2 RR
Comments: Ogre = More fun (thihi). Now i only have 2 rr but i allsow dont need them that much. And i have taken a Apothecary so with some luck i wont lose any player.
So what o you think?
EvilGit - Jul 04, 2007 - 04:01 PM
Post subject: RE: Help, Human League team roster...
well for what it's worth here's my opinion...
the real workhorses for the team are the blitzers. you're going to be facing on average movement 6 players. your blitzers with movement 7 are going to be able to not only keep up with the opposition but also blitz them. they're also not too shabby as ball handlers (again the movement but also the agility 3) which means to start with these are going to get the lions share of the spp's. get all 4 of them from the get go. their starting skill of block is also going to be handy for taking down people early doors. skill upgrades would be a mixture of guard and tackle depending on what teams you're facing early on in the league. i'd be tempted to get 2 with tackle and 2 with guard to start with mighty blow and strip ball as the next skills. for doubles i'd look no further than dodge.
linemen are the unsung heroes of the team. ok there's nothing special about them but they're so versitile. a mixture of wrestle and block as starting skills with guard on doubles.
i see you're wanting to start with some firepower straight from the blocks with an ogre. definitely not a bad choice. his strength alone should frighten your opposition a bit. don't be surprised if the not so experienced members of the league try and take him out early with a couple of players. in fact let him. it just means you're men up where the action is (i.e. where the ball is). guard as an opening skill is your best bet with block taken on doubles.
now we're onto the more specialist players. throwers have the same stats as linemen with a couple of skills for an extra 20k. for the same price you could get catchers. but it's the skills that are really going to help the team at the start. sure hands can be an absolute lifesaver, saving you money that you would have spent on re-rolls. couple this with a skill that gives you an in-built re-roll to distribute the ball and you can see that throwers are a vital part of the team at the start. skills wise depends on your play style more than anything else. if you have 2 or less re-rolls then leader is a must have skill. if you like to throw the ball then go accurate. if you like to run the ball then go for block.
catchers are your weak link in a starting team. with the rest lof your team having an armour value of 8 or more, armour 7 really is a worry. add this to their strength of 2 means that to start with on defense their not going to be doing much. they are handy assist helpers for blocks with their great speed and agility (plus another in-built re-roll for dodges) but i'd hang fire on these players until you're other squad members are better able to look after them. once the rest of the team are a little more developed then catchers soon catch up in terms of spp's. as for skills i'd go block first, then something like sidestep or fend.
for any of these players stat increases are a great help. i wouldn't take armour above 9 though. apart from that go wild with those increases.
as for a team line-up i prefer a running game to start with so i would go for this:
4 x blitzer (360)
1 x ogre (140)
2 x thrower (140)
5 x linemen (250)
2 x re-rolls (100)
and bank the extra 10k towards your first purchase (either players, apo, re-rolls etc) This team only starts out with 2 re-rolls i know, but it's not all that bad. your blitzers are the reliable hitters of the team until more block starts springing up around the team and as i stated before the two throwers both have a re-roll to pick up the ball. if you're going to pass with these guys though make sure you start off with either quick or short passes. while they have re-rolls and it looks like they can throw that killer pass there's no substitute for keepoing it simple. even at short passes you've got a 50% chance of succeeding and have a re-roll just in case. long passes have 33% chance of succeeding and long bombs is something like 7% and a 50% chance of it falling at your feet. hand offs are your friend though. it's only one dice roll and you can still make a fair distance down the field.
another thing to remember with human teams more so than most other teams is that positioning is everything. if your players start to get caught out of position it makes it much harder to try and get control of the game as you don't have the super speed of other teams.
another option you could choose if you wanted to start with catchers could be:
4 x blitzers(360)
2 x throwers (140)
2 x catchers (140)
4 x linemen (200)
3 x re-roll (150
10k banked again
this gives you more offensive options with the catchers and their speed) and you've now got 3 re-rolls but you've lost the muscle of the ogre. remember the human team looks good on paper with all their in-built re-rolls but they do flatter to deceive. the throwers look like they can throw further than they can and the catchers look like they can burn people with their speed but in reality it's not the case. play conservatively with them and you'll be more successful than you think.
sorry didn't intend this to be quite as large as it's turned out to be. if you've read all of this then cheers for sticking with it and best of luck in your league.
Frantic - Jul 05, 2007 - 05:53 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster...
Evil_Git1 wrote:
well for what it's worth here's my opinion...
the real.... bla bla bla bla.
Thx!
I´ll like the ide of 4 blizers + ogre start up, but why do you think that the #12 player is better then a extra rr or Apothecary?
I´ll think that if one Linemen "bites the dust" it dosent matter that much. I can live with a loner in the team text match.
After i have read all of it i have come up with a third startup:
4 Linemen (200)
2 Thrower (140)
4 Blizers (360)
1 Ogre (140)
3 RR (150)
10K left.
What do you think of that start?
Now i just need 40k for my Apothecary, but if i´ll loose a Blizers first game or the ogre i will start cry 
. hmmm 2 rr and a Apothecary from start will probebly be better.
What do you think?
EvilGit - Jul 05, 2007 - 02:58 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster...
well talking it through with a mate we came up with some other ideas.
it seems that 12 players isn't so crucial these days with journeymen so definately drop one of those linemen for either a re-roll or the apo (i'd go for a re-roll there and save up for that apo. the re-roll will be a more effective purchase)
if you want to start with catchers only go for a maximum of one on a starting roster. they're just a bit too vulnerable on a starting team.
blitzers skill choices. now here's something you might want to consider for one or two. mighty blow and pile om on normal roles and jump up on doubles. i'd still keep the other two as tackle and guard on normal roles and dodge on doubles. strip ball and frenzy have nice synergy together as well so instead of 2 pile on jump up types have one and the other make a frenzy strip baller (strip ball as the first skill)
lineman ski8lls maybe think about having one as a kicker (or your second thrower that would then get kick off return. make the other one accurate and block) about half of them with block and dauntless (guard on doubles) and the other half with wrestle and fend.
as for your line-up, well that's what i'd change my first one to so i think it's an excellent choice the ogre for that bit of muscle. 4 blitzers to make the lions share of plays and your throwers doubling up as linemen on defense. very good thinking.
Frantic - Jul 05, 2007 - 04:26 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster...
Evil_Git1 wrote:
well talking it through with a mate we came up with some other ideas.
it seems that 12 players isn't so crucial these days with journeymen so definately drop one of those linemen for either a re-roll or the apo (i'd go for a re-roll there and save up for that apo. the re-roll will be a more effective purchase)
if you want to start with catchers only go for a maximum of one on a starting roster. they're just a bit too vulnerable on a starting team.
blitzers skill choic.... bla bla bla.
So then its settled.
2 Throwers
4 Blizers
1 Ogre
4 Linemen
3 RR
And with some luck i can buy my Apothecary after the first game.... Hope they all can stay alive.... 
My plan of skills will probebly be...
Thrower 1 = Acc, Block (Strong arm on d?)
Thrower 2 = Leader, Block (Strong Arm on d?)
Linemen 1 = Kick, Block (Guard on d)
Linemen 2 = Wrestle, Fend (Guard on d)
Linemen 3 = Block, Tackle (Guard on d)
LineMen 4 = Wrestle, Fend (Guard on d)
Blizer 1 = Stripball
Blizer 2 = Tackle
Blizer 3 = Mighty Blow
Blizer 4 = Guard
(the second skill on blizer can a decide later on, but on a double i´ll probebly take diving tackle or dodge....)
Ogre = Guard, Stand Firm or Breaktackle (Block on d)
Something like that....
Thx for all the help, but if anyone else wants to give their opinion im all ears 
EvilGit - Jul 06, 2007 - 03:01 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster...
the only skill choice i have any sort of worry over (and it's a very minor worry) is the strong arm on the second thrower. it's probably just me though. i may be tempted in making a sort of runner type as you've already got (hopefully) the passing thrower. something akin to nerves of steal and dodge on double so he can pick the ball up in tackle zones and move a bit more freely. but then that's skills 2 and 3 (or even 3 and 4)
otherwise that sounds about right to me but i'd also be interested in other people's opinions.
Frantic - Jul 07, 2007 - 01:50 AM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster...
Evil_Git1 wrote:
the only skill choice i have any sort of worry over (and it's a very minor worry) is the strong arm on the second thrower. it's probably just me though. i may be .....
Yeah, i wont take strong arm if i´ll get a double roll on both thowers, then i´ll will probebly take a "normal" skill or dodge. Hmmm Side Step could be a alternetive...
Spazzfist - Jul 07, 2007 - 08:57 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
I think mighty blow on all the blitzers might be the way to go. That way if you are facing any armour 7 opponents, the odds say that you would be highly likely to penetrate armour. Which leads to more casualties which leadds to more SPPs which leads to your next skill! Mighty blow is the skill that pays for itself!
Frantic - Jul 08, 2007 - 05:48 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
Mighty blow you say.... hmm maybe, but i dont like the ide of making them to alike, i want a flexible team. I will probebly take Mighty blow as the second skill, on atleast one player.
Cramy - Jul 08, 2007 - 08:33 PM
Post subject: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster...
Evil_Git1 wrote:
the only skill choice i have any sort of worry over (and it's a very minor worry) is the strong arm on the second thrower. it's probably just me though. i may be tempted in making a sort of runner type as you've already got (hopefully) the passing thrower. something akin to nerves of steal and dodge on double so he can pick the ball up in tackle zones and move a bit more freely. but then that's skills 2 and 3 (or even 3 and 4)
NoS doesn't help for pick-ups. Sorry. It only helps for passes, interceptions and catches.
I like the roster that you are going with, but I would do something a bit different. I don't like starting with the Ogre. I just hate to have to rely on the Ogre. He's a good road block, but you don't want to rely on him for important plays.
2 Throwers 140k
4 Blitzers 360k
2 Catcher 140k
4 Linemen 200k
3 RR 150k
Total: 990k
You get 12 players, so the loss of a player for the game is not that bad. The Apothecary is not as good in LRB4, so don't work him in your starting lineup. Get him as one of your first purchases though.
Catchers can make really good safeties. They are fast, and have dodge. Give them block, then skills like side step, pass block and dauntless, depending on the opposition that you are facing. Block and Side Step are also good on offence.
Marc-Andre
Frantic - Jul 21, 2007 - 12:54 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
Hmm, i dont know the Apothecary rules in 4.0 but in 5.0 that we are playing they are fair.
The Swedish Steelers start up team are:
2 Thrower - 140
1 Ogre -140
4 Blizers - 360
4 Linemen - 200
3 RR - 150
Cach left: 10K
The Ogre is more to frighten the opponent, He will be very pasive the first game(s) until i´ll have enough cach to the apothecary. I dont want him to make the tunrovers. The 3 RR i´ll have is for the Blizers in TD actions.
Good or bad? Well, when i´ll played a few matches i can give some results of the tactic(s).
Over And Out!
kjonesin - Dec 17, 2007 - 06:41 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
Mighty blow should be first on your first two blitzers, one follows tackle/frenzy/piling on, the other gets Guard. I like starting with two catchers. Catchers normally develop for defense - block/sidestep/shadowing/diving tackle/pass block. Nerves of steel on doubles. Throwers - one gets accurate/safe throw/hail mary the other gets block/strip ball/dump off/accurate.
Linemen - one or two with wrestle/dirty player, one with wrestle/tackle/strip ball/sure hands, one with Block/Dauntless/Pro
Humans are fast enough and start with enough skills that offense takes care of itself for the most part. I always prime for defense and casualties in skill development. Keep every stat increase you roll, even movement on a lineman. If you get +AG on a lineman, give him Block/strip ball/pro/sure hands and protect him well. +ST means Block, Tackle and Frenzy. +MA on a lineman means block/tackle/frenzy/strip ball.
kjonesin - Jan 01, 2008 - 11:28 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
Oh, and Juggernaut should be your first skill on the Ogre, followed by Guard.
KarlLagerbottom - Jan 01, 2008 - 12:34 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
It's Guard or Break Tackle for me....
Guard helps the big lug add value to his teammates without even having to roll a die. Plus it is much harder to eliminate a STR 5 Guarder in the middle of your line.
I really like Break Tackle if the Ogre intends on being a key player...once you get that, he can almost always be involved in the action. Otherwise, your opponent can easily tie him up with a throw away zombie-type player...or with an AV9 player that is harder to hurt. Sure you'll keep getting shots at that guy, but if you don't break armour...he is just standing infront of you again next turn. Break Tackle is nice at keeping him as a threat.
kjonesin - Jan 01, 2008 - 06:32 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
Juggernaut means you can turn the both-down result (a potential turnover) into a push, making him less of a liability. I don't think anyone with loner and bonehead or another negative skill should ever become a key player; that's just asking to lose your blitz action.
Don't get me wrong though, Guard is a must on an Ogre, any big guy, really. I just think if he has juggernaut first you're less likely to turnover, meaning he can throw more blocks and get more casualties in order to get that second skill.
While writing this, I realised that Juggernaut is only useable on a blitz action. Which would switch my opinion to Guard first! lol
Doubleskulls - Jan 01, 2008 - 07:38 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
Yep - Juggernaut is a great skill on the right sort of players - and I'd take 1st on Rat Ogres & Minotaus. Since Juggernaut only works when blitzing then you only really get value from players who blitz a lot - and I wouldn't have put Ogres in that category. For me Guard is the automatic 1st choice, followed by Stand Firm.
daloonieshaman - Jan 01, 2008 - 08:57 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
the apoth is not worth the cost in 5th for a starting team
Frantic - Jun 02, 2008 - 03:26 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
So, i´m just minutes away from my first game (lost 2-1 against those fast goddamn woodelves) but i have something to be glad of. One of my blizers roled a double five for his "skillpick". But thats also my problem...
Which skill should i choose?
A agility skill?
Dodge? - A Blodger is most of the time nice.
Sidestep? - Later on with other skills it could be very interesting.
Movement skill?
Movement? 8 is more useful than 7.
or stick with my plan and take a normal skill?
Btw, no one died, and i got my 40k in winning for my apothecary.
Lycos - Jun 03, 2008 - 11:42 AM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
Wow, 6 months after the last post you got to play! A double 5 is handy for a blitzer. I would go Dodge myself as you will soon pick up Guard and Tackle and MB on standard rolls. If had been 6/4 then yes, MV8 or even AV9 would be good but I would use that double for Dodge.
Frantic - Jun 03, 2008 - 12:48 PM
Post subject: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: RE: Help, Human League team roster..
Yeah, when my humans was ready, the "offseason" had already kicked in, but now its all back in track again.
Dodge you say, hmmm yeah i´m think youre right, if i dont take it i´ll will regret my self everytime he goes down.
tenwit - Jun 03, 2008 - 04:48 PM
Post subject:
Dodge Blitzers are great, they're the ones you put Mighty Blow on. When you build Guard Blitzers, the doubles skills of choice are either Diving Tackle or Side Step, depending on your play style. I'd suggest just the one Mighty Blow Blitzer, and three Guard ones.
Kheldar - Jun 04, 2008 - 03:18 AM
Post subject:
I gave my first double blitzer Jump Up. He'll become a mighty blow, pilling on killer. Next double will be dodge.
Frantic - Jun 04, 2008 - 03:44 AM
Post subject:
tenwit wrote:
Dodge Blitzers are great, they're the ones you put Mighty Blow on. When you build Guard Blitzers, the doubles skills of choice are either Diving Tackle or Side Step, depending on your play style. I'd suggest just the one Mighty Blow Blitzer, and three Guard ones.
I´ll want to make my team so flexible as posible so, i wont pick guard on three of them, probebly two. But i´ll like the ide of sidestep/guard
Kheldar wrote:
I gave my first double blitzer Jump Up. He'll become a mighty blow, pilling on killer. Next double will be dodge.
Hmm, interesting... why not, never tried that combo before. It will pay for it self. Next skill pile or might?
PubBowler - Jun 05, 2008 - 08:35 AM
Post subject:
Mighty Blow is better than Piling On so MB first.
Frantic - Mar 12, 2009 - 12:21 AM
Post subject:
Are in the middle of season 2 with this team right now and one of the blitzer got his fifth skill last night.
He has: Mighty Blow, Agility, Dodge, Agility (I got them in that order)
And last night I rolled a regulare skill pic. So sugestions plz.
Cramy - Mar 12, 2009 - 08:19 AM
Post subject:
If you have lots of guard, one option can be frenzy. You can get the your target with Dodge and AG5, and then get two hits on the target. Get a one-die block on the first hit and push the player next to your guard players, and a two-dice you chose on the second hit. But that can be a risky proposition.
Strip Ball or Tackle could be interesting if you want to use the AG5 to get in the cage and hit the ball carrier. But that depends on how much Sure Hands and Dodge you face.
Fend could be good to help protect the player, but does not combine with Mighty Blow.
Frantic - Mar 12, 2009 - 08:52 AM
Post subject:
Well I have one Blitzer with AG4, Strip Ball and Juggernaut. If I´m lucky then I got a Double skill on him as his next skill, I´ll give him leap. Then it would be nice with the Sure Hands skill for this player to come and pick the ball up in a bunch of tacklezones.
Otherwise I was thinking Stand Firm, Guard (Has 2 Guards i the team) Or Fend. There are alot of Piling on / MB and Frenzy players in the league.
I dont have any pass blockers in the team but dont realy know if I want to spend that skill on this player.