Rules Questions - Changing your mind on an action?? rickardo - Feb 19, 2011 - 02:52 AM Post subject: Changing your mind on an action??
so basically is it against the rules?
Here's a little scenario that happened last night...
Opposing coach moves his black Orc 4 squares, the coach picks him up moves him 4 squares and scores a TD. I point out he's got to make a dodge roll as he's passing the corner of my tackle zone. Therefore he chooses to move his black orc back and moves a line man from beside the black Orc out of the way so he can go round my tackle zone.
Is this allowed? I personally say no but the rules do not state otherwise (that i can see)Sebco - Feb 19, 2011 - 02:55 AM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
I don't know if it's really official but in french tournaments, we usually consider a player can't be moved back as soon as dices have been rolled or another player has been moved after him.rickardo - Feb 19, 2011 - 12:49 PM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
i would personally have considered a player wouldnt do it as it being unsportsman, obviously not Doubleskulls - Feb 20, 2011 - 02:37 AM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
Not allowing the opponent to correct the move - when no dice were rolled - seems a sporting thing to do - that I'd expect everyone to allow.rickardo - Feb 20, 2011 - 10:04 AM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
The move was allowed, for the same reason, it's sporting on my behalf. But I guess I choose to just take it on the chin that in a game such as blood bowl if I move a player, make a mistake I deal with it rather than moving something back. I.e My own fault for not realising and moving a player back a little cheeky . nothing was said to my opponent I just wanted to know if there was anything that states it's legality
But thanks for the opinions. Doubleskulls - Feb 20, 2011 - 11:19 PM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
Technically he'd have to roll, but making someone do it would be unpleasant IMO. I'd never voluntarily play that person again.rickardo - Feb 21, 2011 - 01:24 AM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
Completely agree.bobman - Mar 06, 2011 - 03:54 AM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
I would alllow the coach to take back the action of a player. But not move another player and return to that player. In this example I'd let the coach retry the move of the Black Orc, maybe making a GFI rather than a dodge or something, but not move the lineman and then return to the Black Orc. In short once you start a player action that player either takes an action or forgoes.daloonieshaman - Mar 06, 2011 - 10:34 AM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
With us ....
If he declared an action (other than move) that player owns that action .... IE black orc will blitz (weither he blitzs or not ...) If he is not at the point of adding str for the block he can re set his move or even go Before that blitz I will move this guy. If he is at the point of adding str and finds out he is short he is screwed. Now with the movement, he can reroute his guy (and use the GFI) but as the Dodge was pointed after he clearly moved he has to go around or dodge or not do it. It all has to do with the absent dice roll, (he moved out of the square) so that player is committed to do something (or nothing and pass his action)Conspyre - Mar 14, 2011 - 12:29 PM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
Generally I'd say that yes, going back and re-moving the active player to allow for avoiding a forgotten Dodge (perhaps to get better odds on a GFI, as mentioned above), would be the friendly thing to do. Allowing the player to go back before the current player's activation and move someone else to prepare for the move, however, seems a bit much. One of the things that I find most appealing about Blood Bowl, as in sports, is that between the clock, and the potential for things to go wrong, sometimes you just have to take a chance on a risky move- allowing for too many takebacks and that sort of thing dilutes that feeling, along with dragging the game out longer. In tournament play, I would more likely step back to the move that required the Dodge roll, make the roll, and continue from there, lest a forgotten roll lead to "forgotten" rolls. By the point at which someone is playing in tournaments, they should be able to look at the board, recognize tackle zones, and not make those kinds of mistakes, and if they honestly missed it, they should be willing to fix their error with the least adjustment to the game possible.Doubleskulls - Mar 14, 2011 - 05:16 PM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
So if your opponent runs a player up and says blitz ... and its only 1 dice - would you let him move another player up to provide the support?Conspyre - Mar 14, 2011 - 05:28 PM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
Certainly not in a tournament game- order of activation is a key skill for strong play, that kind of mistake is what differentiates weaker players. In a friendly game, I might permit it for a player that's new to the game, or hasn't played in a while, but planning for Blitzes is key.Doubleskulls - Mar 14, 2011 - 09:33 PM Post subject: RE: Changing your mind on an action??
I can't think of any circumstances off the top of my head where I wouldn't allow my opponent to do that. In tournaments I'm more likely to be forgiving - its easier being a pedant with friends generaljason - Mar 15, 2011 - 05:18 AM Post subject:
Yeah I'm with Ian on this that I have never had to win a game that badly that I wouldn't allow an opponent to take a move back, provided of course that no dice rolls have been made and the player is the recently active model.
The league I play in has our fair share of guys who never allow take backs, call IP constantly, and even withhold information like forcing a guy to commit to choosing the "block" result and then springing Wrestle on them after they forgot to ask - even if the active player was carrying the ball if you can believe that.
Luckily for you guys none of these members are on the Thunderbowl World Cup team. daloonieshaman - Mar 15, 2011 - 05:25 PM Post subject:
wimpy east coast guys flyingdingle - Mar 18, 2011 - 05:13 AM Post subject:
I'm with doubleskullz on allowing the takeback as long as no rolls have been made. Otherwise, it just leads to bad attitudes and makes things no fun for anyone.Lycos - Mar 18, 2011 - 05:55 AM Post subject:
Certainly here in the UK, and largely in European tournaments (and I have done a few) the unwritten procedure is "if no dice have been rolled, that's ok". I would defo allow my oppo to bring in another player on that blitz situation discussed on page one, hell yeah. To the original question asked, I would defo allow my oppo to move another player in that situation, as long as no dice have been rolled. It's still a game to me and making it more than that kinda defeats the point in playing.
Although, I completely accept that some leagues play "hard core" and if that is accepted across the whole league - fair enough. You wouldn't get guys like myself and Doubleskulls playing any more but if all souls are like minded, sure that's ok.GreedySmurf - Aug 12, 2011 - 02:39 AM Post subject:
Agree 100% with Lycos. If no dice have been rolled, by all means change your action.daloonieshaman - Aug 12, 2011 - 09:45 PM Post subject:
Lycos is a gentlemen for gentlemen, but in an important game (playoffs lets say or you are beating me 15 nil) if you declare your block and start adding your total strenght whilst I add my total strenth and you come up short you are screwed for your mistake (as in the rules). Otherwise sure I have no problem with you doing whatever you want before dice are rolled.Grumbledook - Aug 13, 2011 - 12:40 AM Post subject:
I've never played anyone who wouldn't let you change your mind on that blockSolarFlare - Aug 15, 2011 - 06:14 AM Post subject:
Grumbledook wrote:
I've never played anyone who wouldn't let you change your mind on that block
To add to that, if I see an opponent has mis-counted the block, I will often say something like, "you realize this is only a 1-die block."
Heck, even if someone jumps the gun and rolls 2 dice for a 1-die block, I will let them move the guy in that they did not realize they needed to move. Of course, at that point, it becomes a little more murky. But if my opponent is nice, then why not? This is a game.DarkOrk20 - Aug 15, 2011 - 09:35 AM Post subject:
I would have let him redo it. I would have also given him a stern warning about it and make sure he doesn't get to do it again.
If he is a newer player I always tend to give a little more. While I think that once you get to a tournament you should be good player at that point and not be allowed rookie mistakes but I know that there are many new players coming to tournaments. I would rather foster them into returning than brow beat them. I am not as hardcore as some.xkobiex - Aug 15, 2011 - 01:50 PM Post subject:
Redoing actions with a single piece before a die roll has been made is reasonable. However, I would not allow a coach to move a second piece after declaring an action with the original until the original's action is complete. Now, if you didn't point this out and your opponent cheated...well, cheating is allowed. daloonieshaman - Aug 15, 2011 - 11:02 PM Post subject:
on that ... (I am not talking newbies here) What if you declage your pass and move the thrower to the ball and discovered that heforgot to move his catcher in poition. In order for the catche (Oh it's okay we have nothing to do with our time so we do not use timers)a to move into position he must make a dodge roll and the clock expires do you let he then move his thrower after he timer rang? If so, Are you goining to allow him to activate 3 more plqyers after the thrower (after the clock ran out). Why did you let the thrower move?SolarFlare - Aug 17, 2011 - 07:43 AM Post subject:
I dunno. It's a game first for me. As long as my opponent has been cool, and we're focusing on fun, then I'll let most things go. (Note - I am not interested in playing games with a timer...) If my opponent has been jacking me around, or I think they are really trying to abuse a situation (pretty rare scenarios for the Blood Bowl community, to be honest), then I will take a harder stance.
In a game at zlurpee bowl this year, a (very cool) opponent failed his diving catch attempt with a slann catcher in the end zone. It then went to my turn. After I was about halfway done with my turn, my opponent realized that the catcher who failed to catch was the one he had given the catch skill to. He asked if we could go back and see if the catch skill worked. We did. He scored. At that point, though, I had already pushed his catcher out of bounds and picked up the loose ball. We pretended my "turn" had never happened. We moved his score counter up 1. And he then kicked off to me.
I could have said no, I guess. But I would have had less fun.daloonieshaman - Aug 18, 2011 - 12:15 PM Post subject:
see that is personal preference. As far as newbies go fo me it is all about teaching and haveing fun. I will encourage newbies to
"bring in another guy" or roll a skill so that they learn (with the usual clause that they will not be able to do it later. 5-10 games later)
