NAF World Headquarters

Rules Questions - kick off question

crazylegs - Jun 23, 2003 - 09:07 PM
Post subject: kick off question

Here's the situation:

The ball scatters to the line of scrimage, to a space occupied by a player on the receiving team. He attempts to catch it, and the ball scatters onto the other side of the field onto a player from the kicking team, is it:

a.) A bouncing ball, that can be caught by the player from the
kicking team. or,

b.) A bad kick.

The follow up question, is what if the ball comes down in an empty square, bounces to a receiving player on the line of scrimage, who then fails to catch it, and it goes over the line of scrimmage, like in the first question, what is it then: a.) or b.)?

I need as official of an asnwer as possible... thanks.

jasonbarron - Jun 23, 2003 - 11:07 PM
Post subject:

The way I thought it worked was that if the ball ends up on the kickers side of the field then it is a touch back and the non kicking team coach gets to give the ball to any one of his team.

J

Indigo - Jun 24, 2003 - 01:21 AM
Post subject:

1) It's a touchback - regardless of how it get's into the kicking team's half or off the pitch, the outcome is still the same.

2) Still a touchback.

Doubleskulls - Jun 24, 2003 - 02:53 AM
Post subject:

Its always a touchback as soon as the ball crosses the LOS.

Indigo - Jun 24, 2003 - 03:15 AM
Post subject:

or goes out of bounds

noodle1978uk - Jun 24, 2003 - 05:07 AM
Post subject:

Which is rubbish Very Happy

So in our league we have a house rule which states that as soon as a kick hits an opposing player it can't be a touchback. Its not the kicking team's fault the opponents can't catch

Indigo - Jun 24, 2003 - 05:16 AM
Post subject:

hmm. think about it though, you have the LOS players facing each other and the ball goes flying over their heads into the backfield. To catch a the ball, which is bouncing from BEHIND them, they'd have to turn around, thereby showing their backs to the psychotic opposing team...

not a good idea

Doubleskulls - Jun 24, 2003 - 05:21 AM
Post subject:

noodle1978uk wrote:

Which is rubbish Very Happy

So in our league we have a house rule which states that as soon as a kick hits an opposing player it can't be a touchback. Its not the kicking team's fault the opponents can't catch

Do you play compulsory catches? If you do then your ruling is unfair on low AG teams who have less chance of making those critical rolls.

ECBBL plays voluntary catches (much more sensible) and its only a touchback if the catch was attempted (so don't try to catch and its a touchback, try to catch and it isn't).

noodle1978uk - Jun 24, 2003 - 05:58 AM
Post subject:

Yes and er yes Very Happy

I agree with you. However we only play voluntary catches at kick offs... This is because at all other times moving into a square with the ball you have (in our league) 2 options - pick it up of kick it...

But at the kick off you get to decide whether or not to catch the ball...

Doubleskulls - Jun 24, 2003 - 06:06 AM
Post subject:

It seems odd to play voluntary pickups and not voluntary catches.

kalten - Jul 30, 2003 - 05:51 AM
Post subject:

Can I get a rule cleared up whilst we're here... is it absolutely positive that if you move aplayer into a quare with the ball that he MUST pick it up? we have played the rule that you don't have to catch a ball since a long time ago, but the pickup rule we only started using recently, whats the reason behind that rule as well, why must you pick it up?

GalakStarscraper - Jul 30, 2003 - 06:34 AM
Post subject:

The forced Pick-up rule is buried in the history of BB.

It relates to a player by the name of Gall the Thrall.
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Lair/6346/gall.txt

I the old days a player with Stand Firm who attempted a dodge did not stand firm in his starting square but instead went to the square he was dodging to and then stopped his movement.

Also Elf teams used to be able to pick up Stand Firm on doubles rolls.

This led to the practice of several Elf teams having Dodge and Stand Firm who would just keep dodging onto the ball until they kicked it away from any defending players and other Elf would swoop in for the easy 2+ roll to get the ball.

The problem being that Gall the Thrall is dead now. Stand Firm no longer allows you to go to the square you were dodging to, and it is now a Trait. These two changes mean that the tactic the Elf team (and others) used will no longer work. As a result, I've joined a lot of the folks that have requested that forced pick-ups and forced catches be removed from the game.

Galak

noodle1978uk - Jul 30, 2003 - 07:22 AM
Post subject:

I was guilty of said kicking prectices with my teams... (sorry) Very Happy

You can still rush into a tackle zone or a few and scatter the ball though - and then increase your chances of being able to pick it up with someone else...

So maybe the rules are OK as they are...

Doubleskulls> We were reading the rules wrong... We use the kicking rules and they didn't specify whether a player HAS to pick it up before taking a kick action... Upon refletion they now imply that you need to be holding it first....

So pick ups and catches are mandatory - though I think catches ought not to be, where failing would not count in a turnover....

Darkson - Jul 30, 2003 - 02:03 PM
Post subject:

Doubleskulls wrote:

Mordredd wrote:

BB is not a game of fine tactics, it's two mobs of homicidal psychos fighting for possession of the ball.

Homidical maniacs aren't going to think "I'll pick up the ball" they are going to want to hit their opponents.

Rugby players do this all the time... well at least the forwards.

DS, it's now 9pm GMT (BST), how'd you post 20mins in the future? Shocked

Melifaxis - Jul 30, 2003 - 02:12 PM
Post subject:

This thread is wacked...it says Darkson made the latest post, but Doubleskulls post about Rugby players is always last....weird.

Melifaxis - Jul 30, 2003 - 02:13 PM
Post subject:

Yup, it's broken my post doesn't show up at all...

Mordredd - Jul 30, 2003 - 03:11 PM
Post subject:

I think pick-ups and catches should stay mandatory. The cheesey tactics are gone, but they're not the only reason to keep it compulsory to try.

BB is not a game of fine tactics, it's two mobs of homicidal psychos fighting for possession of the ball. Every player wants it, so will always try to grab it when given the opportunity. Even when surrounded, or when they've blitzed it out of the opposition's hands and a friend can score but they can't. This mathematical, calculated approach to when players want to pick up the ball is all wrong.

I got the ball! I got the Ball!

Doubleskulls - Jul 30, 2003 - 03:16 PM
Post subject:

Mordredd wrote:

BB is not a game of fine tactics, it's two mobs of homicidal psychos fighting for possession of the ball.

Homidical maniacs aren't going to think "I'll pick up the ball" they are going to want to hit their opponents.

Rugby players do this all the time... well at least the forwards.