NAF World Headquarters
North America - GenCon US Blood Bowl tournament July 25-26th 2003
GalakStarscraper - Mar 26, 2003 - 01:31 PM
Post subject: GenCon US Blood Bowl tournament July 25-26th 2003
GenCon is the United States' largest gaming convention so its only right that Games Workshop and Blood-bowl.net are going to try and host the largest Blood Bowl tournament in the United States.
80 slots have been reserved and if they sell out we can accept up to 140 players in total.
Prizes include the following:
Free admission to the Chaos Cup
2 Resurrection Gutter Runners
Limited Edition Lizardman Cheerleader
Ogre Thrower and Blocker blisters
Rulebook signed by Jervis Johnson and Andy Hall
2 Necromantic Cheerleaders
2nd edition Zombie and Skeleton players
2 different sets of LotR Fellowship of the Ring miniatures (9 figs) (2 prizes)
Inquistor Malicant
Spyke trophy mini (from the new upcoming trophy mini set)
In addition to get one pick out of the prize pile above (two picks for 1st). There will be trophies for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place, Best Sportsman, Best Painted Team, Best Pitch/Dugout, Most Casualties, and Most Touchdowns to put on your mantle and brag about.
Finally no promises, I'm trying to make sure that everyone who plays and doesn't get an award and plays all 4 games gets one free mini. It will probably be plastic, but I'm trying to see if they'll at least be painted. The coin that players got from the Blood Bowl and upcoming Chaos Cup went over fairly badly, so I'm trying to come up with something better. No promises on this one as it will come out of my pocket as will the trophies. Consider it blood-bowl.net's sponsership of the tournament. My goal is to make the GenCon tournament better than the Chaos Cup (no offense to GW). Since the two tournaments are only one week apart, I have this big goal that if I can pack the house at GenCon and it goes really well that maybe the Chaos Cup could be held at GenCon instead of at Chicago one week later. What are the odds ... I don't know ... but I'm going to do everything I can to make this tournament great for everyone. If anyone goes to Chaos Cup after the GenCon tournament, I want to hear that they wished it had been run more like GenCon ... will it happen ... who knows ... a lowly BB fanatic can dream can't he.
Details of the tournament can be read here:
http://www.blood-bowl.net/Gencon.html
Questions can be emailed to me directly at tom.anders@blood-bowl.net
Hope to see at least 80 of you there ... and 140 if at all possible.
Galak
jmccubbin - Apr 01, 2003 - 05:38 PM
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Yoo Hoooo, I get to go. 
GalakStarscraper - Apr 01, 2003 - 06:25 PM
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jmccubbin wrote:
Yoo Hoooo, I get to go.
I look forward to seeing you ... get your league mates to come also ... 
I want to pack the house man ... really pack the house.
Galak
snew - Apr 01, 2003 - 10:25 PM
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I'm going to be there too. I just need to figure out which team I want to bring. Oh, and get up early on the 14th to register for the event. 
KarlLindemann - Apr 08, 2003 - 09:49 PM
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ill be going to gen-con and possably the one in Chicago since I live i Illinois anyway and what is fee to enter tournament? sorry if i overlooked it
jmccubbin - Apr 09, 2003 - 04:54 AM
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Gencon cost $40 just to get in for 2 days. The tourney cost $6.
GalakStarscraper - Apr 09, 2003 - 05:56 AM
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jmccubbin wrote:
Gencon cost $40 just to get in for 2 days. The tourney cost $6.
Thanks jmccubbin .... I tried to post this fact that the board said I could not post so close in time to my last post .... (dang, posting police).
So TBB won't let me in, and the NAF site limits my ability to post ... going to have to start a discussion group on blood-bowl.net just so I can talk ... 
Galak
snew - Apr 09, 2003 - 07:19 AM
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Build it and they will come....
KarlLindemann - Apr 09, 2003 - 02:34 PM
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thank you for the help
Milo - Apr 09, 2003 - 07:11 PM
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Tom,
I'll be at GenCon, but busy with other stuff, so I probably won't participate. Still be on hand if anyone wants to meet me or anything (please, leave the torches and pitchforks at home.) =)
Milo
GalakStarscraper - Apr 10, 2003 - 05:09 AM
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Milo wrote:
Tom,
I'll be at GenCon, but busy with other stuff, so I probably won't participate. Still be on hand if anyone wants to meet me or anything (please, leave the torches and pitchforks at home.) =)
Milo
Hey Milo, I could really use a guest judge to help me with Best Pitch/Dugout award. Would you be willing to swing by the tournament and help pick the winner?
Galak
darthnoir - Apr 10, 2003 - 11:44 AM
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Galak,
I did a search on the GenCon website for your tournament. It lists two of them:
BG00156 Blood Bowl Tournament Qualifier $7.50
BG00157 Blood Bowl Tournament Finals $3.00
Did the price change, or is the system just confused because the event is not on sale yet?
snew - Apr 10, 2003 - 01:53 PM
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How'd you do it? I can't even find Blood bowl there.
darthnoir - Apr 10, 2003 - 02:16 PM
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https://registration.gencon.com/regsystem/listevents.cgi
I set the Title Contains field to Blood Bowl
snew - Apr 10, 2003 - 02:51 PM
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Thanks. I've got it now. You and I have dealt with each other before. Are you going to go to the Tourney?
darthnoir - Apr 10, 2003 - 03:05 PM
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I'm trying to arrange it. Things I still need to do:
1) Remember to wake up early on the 14th to get a ticket for the tournament
2) Budget this trip (my first child is due to be born in October)
3) Find a reasonably priced hotel in the region
4) Decide if I'm going to the Chaos Cup as well
5) Decide to coach my usual Orcs or more comical Golbins
snew - Apr 10, 2003 - 03:10 PM
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I bought the GenCon ticket and airfare. I need a car and hotel. I want to go to the CC also but my wife's not going for it unless I win this one.
That means I need to coach Orcs vice Goblins. (I was having the same quandry) I'm toying with taking another team also.
snew - Apr 10, 2003 - 03:15 PM
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Anyone know what time the event registration starts on the 14th?
GalakStarscraper - Apr 10, 2003 - 06:46 PM
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darthnoir wrote:
Galak,
I did a search on the GenCon website for your tournament. It lists two of them:
BG00156 Blood Bowl Tournament Qualifier $7.50
BG00157 Blood Bowl Tournament Finals $3.00
Did the price change, or is the system just confused because the event is not on sale yet?
I think the comes from the time of the tournament including breaks vs playtime.
Tournament are only supposed to charge 1.5 for every 2 hours of play time. Four rounds at 2 hours each means $6 for the tournament. However the first day is for 10 hours with breaks and the 2nd day is scheduled for 4 hours with breaks so they are applying the $1.50 price to the entire time for the tournament instead of the actual playtime like they are supposed to. I'll fire of a note to my contact at Gen Con to see if I can quickly get this changed to $4.50 for BG00156 and $1.50 for
BG00157 which were the prices that they quoted me.
Thanks for catching this for me, Darthnoir. By the way Marcus/Darthnoir is the only man on the planet I think has a BB collection that I'm jealous of ... ... it will be fun to put faces to all these names.
Okay, I finished Green Stuffing the 1st place trophy ... just need to paint it now. I've got 3 trophies ready, 1 in process, and 4 left to finish.
Than comes the big question ... do I have time to paint 80 to 140 miniatures to give out as gate prizes for playing all 4 games ... no promises at all on this one guys ... if I can pull it off, they'll be there ... if not ... well I did my best.
I got 5 different companies/organizations to sponser the GenCon tournament, so like I said ... I'm pulling out all the stops to make this tournament worth coming to. I want GW-US to look at GenCon and go wow! ... let's have the Chaos Cup there next year. So I'm doing everything I can to make the tournament great.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Apr 10, 2003 - 07:03 PM
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I'd also lay money that the knowledge base of Blood Bowl rules between the GenCon Head Referee vs the Chaos Cup Head Referee will be slightly different.
Galak
Of course I have NO idea who is head ref at the Chaos Cup ... my luck it will turn out to be someone like Milo or Chet and then I'll have to eat my words.
GalakStarscraper - Apr 13, 2003 - 09:22 AM
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darthnoir wrote:
Galak,
I did a search on the GenCon website for your tournament. It lists two of them:
BG00156 Blood Bowl Tournament Qualifier $7.50
BG00157 Blood Bowl Tournament Finals $3.00
Did the price change, or is the system just confused because the event is not on sale yet?
Thanks a ton for noticing this Darthnoir. GenCon just confirmed today that they fixed it .... (just in time).
The events are now listed as $4.50 and $1.50 to play them with Games Workshop as the sponser.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Apr 13, 2003 - 01:37 PM
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Just a reminder ... TOMORROW is supposed to be the first day to sign up for the GenCon Bowl .... hope to see you all pack the house!!!!
http://www.gencon.com
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Apr 14, 2003 - 06:17 AM
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Registration starts at Noon PST USA.
That's 3 pm EST (New York), 2 pm CST (Chicago), 1 pm MST (who actually lives in this time zone???), and Noon PST (San Diego)
I'm pretty sure that its 8 pm London time, if any of my overseas friends are coming to the Con ... I know that I have some folks from Austria making the trip I believe (more that they'll be in the area than coming over for the tournament).
Galak
darthnoir - Apr 14, 2003 - 01:00 PM
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I still recommend everyone check at noon PST to make sure this wasn't a typo. However, I just got this message when I tried to log into GenCon's website:
Quote:
Our system is currently being upgraded for Game Registration, which will open later today. We apologize for the inconvenience.
Online Event Registration goes LIVE on April 14th at 3pm PST!
darthnoir - Apr 14, 2003 - 05:13 PM
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Bummer Drag...
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Online Event Registration goes LIVE on April 14th at 8:00pm PST (due to technical difficulties).
darthnoir - Apr 14, 2003 - 10:40 PM
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In case anyone is curious, registraiton is finally functioning.
snew - Apr 14, 2003 - 11:32 PM
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I'm there.
jmccubbin - Apr 15, 2003 - 02:35 AM
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I joined. I did not get up at this time 4:30am EST just to sign up. I just couldn't sleep. Probably all the anticipation of my win..... Oh boy am I setting myself up for a fall.
jmccubbin - Apr 15, 2003 - 07:15 AM
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Question: For this tourney. Does piling on need to be declared before or after the armor die roll?
snew - Apr 15, 2003 - 08:43 AM
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LRB rules. After.
GalakStarscraper - Apr 15, 2003 - 11:24 AM
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snotsngrots wrote:
LRB rules. After.
Correct
jmccubbin - Apr 18, 2003 - 03:01 PM
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So how many signed up so far?
GalakStarscraper - Apr 18, 2003 - 05:34 PM
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jmccubbin wrote:
So how many signed up so far?
Wish I knew ... have a request in to find out. Just about have the 4th trophy finished out of the 8 for the tournament.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Apr 25, 2003 - 08:30 AM
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jmccubbin wrote:
So how many signed up so far?
24 at this point.
But since the tournament is still 3 months away, I've had a LOT of emails from folks saying they are waiting until the tournament is closer to register.
Oh and Old_Man_Monkey and I just finished a GenCon practice game.
He took Humans:
Thrud, Ogre, 4 Blitzers, 4 Linemen, 2 Throwers, 1 Reroll, 3 FF
I took Halfings:
Deeproot, 2 Ogres, 9 Halflings, Master Chef, 1 Reroll, 2 FF
The game made me certain of one thing. If there was ever a year that a Stunty team can win a Major tournament ...this is it. I won 3-1 with 3-0 on casualties. That's a 60 point victory in the GenCon point system.
My Goblin team would be one of these 3 ... not decided:
Ripper, 2 Ogre, Nobbla, 8 Goblins, 2 Rerolls, 4 FF
Ripper, 2 Ogre, 9 Goblin, 3 Rerolls, 2 FF
Ripper, 2 Ogre, 9 Goblin, 2 Rerolls, 8 FF
Anyway, just a quick thought if you have a leaning toward Stunty this might be the year to try them.
Old_Man_Monkey can comment, but I didn't find Deeproot or Thrud detracted from the game at all (in fact Thrud was kinda fun!) So I think I have a good system for starplayers planned for GenCon.
Galak
skummy - Apr 25, 2003 - 09:19 AM
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I have to ask, Galak - did the Halflings ever get to use Thrud? One popular tactic in my league is to foul with Thrud late on your first long drive of the game in an attempt to get him thrown out and deny his possible use to the opponent.
GalakStarscraper - Apr 25, 2003 - 09:50 AM
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skummy wrote:
I have to ask, Galak - did the Halflings ever get to use Thrud? One popular tactic in my league is to foul with Thrud late on your first long drive of the game in an attempt to get him thrown out and deny his possible use to the opponent.
Human scored on turn 4 of the first Half and Thrud switched sides (that Master Chef was cooking something gooooodddd). On turn 6 of the 1st half, Thrud fouled and KO'd a Human Blitzer and was ejected ... for some reason the Halfings choose not to argue.
Galak
If you take Thrud you almost have to look at him like a Deathroller. He's good for basically one drive ... if you get more out of him you were forunate.
After playing the team for practice, I'd definitely go with Pro as my first two assigned skills for both of the Ogres.
skummy - Apr 25, 2003 - 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Galak: ... for some reason the Halfings choose not to argue.
GalakStarscraper - Apr 25, 2003 - 10:57 AM
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skummy wrote:
I have to ask, Galak - did the Halflings ever get to use Thrud? One popular tactic in my league is to foul with Thrud late on your first long drive of the game in an attempt to get him thrown out and deny his possible use to the opponent.
For 50k this sounds like a sound tactic by good coaches ... however, to bring him to the GenCon Bowl you'll need to cough up 100k ... makes it a bit more of tactical decision at that price. Especially since unlike a Deathroller which only rolls if it takes the pitch, Thrud rolls even if he sat in the Dugout.
Galak
skummy - Apr 25, 2003 - 11:22 AM
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Here is an even better tactical situation: Amazon team with a tr 100 lower faces an Orc team with a 15 player roster but 2 rookie goblins. The Amazons freeboot Thrud and choose "In the Bag" as the "pick 'em" handicap. Not only do they deny the Orcs their best players for a majority of the game, but Thrud can't play against them unless they score first!
Old_Man_Monkey - May 02, 2003 - 02:14 PM
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Galak et al:
Sorry this reply has taken so long - I'm still ducking from all the flying 'Flings that were raining down a couple of weeks ago.
Upon reflection, these thoughts:
1. I agree that Thrud and Deeproot were not distractions - the Hunam team (sorry . . . old StarControl reference) I tested was in theory at least a strength side; the loss of Thrud was not as difficult to overcome as was the loss of the Blitzer.
2. Not having played against a 'Fling side for awhile, I had forgotten how much tougher the Master Chef can make with the loss of RRs.
3. I had wondered whether a more agile team would have stayed most of the 'Fling movement, however Galak has passed along this week that the same Halfing side won convincingly against a DElf team, so Galak may be on to something here It may be that the first drive against a similar 'Fling team should be devoted less to scoring and more to planting 'Bits in the ground - but that will be seen later.
Thanks for the match, GS, I real ... LOOK OUT!!! INCOMING 'FLINGS!!!
Old_Man_Monkey - May 02, 2003 - 02:22 PM
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One further thing: full marks to Tom and any others for well-thought out rules for the GenCon tournament. I think the SP rule forces a careful look at team design, rewards close matches, and is a great balance between team building and the requirements of tournament play.
Just an "Atta Boy" to Tom.
GalakStarscraper - May 05, 2003 - 05:59 AM
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Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
One further thing: full marks to Tom and any others for well-thought out rules for the GenCon tournament. I think the SP rule forces a careful look at team design, rewards close matches, and is a great balance between team building and the requirements of tournament play.
Just an "Atta Boy" to Tom.
Thanks ... I really tried to talk to a lot of the coaches that went to the large tournaments about what worked and what didn't. I'm hoping the rules and point scoring format of GenCon will be the best mess of all that.
GenCon flings are playing Chaos Dwarves now in my 4th test game.
But so far I'm 3-0 with my GenCon Flings and all 3 were 60 point wins.
Galak
Deathwing - May 05, 2003 - 01:45 PM
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(OT here: OMM, any idea how irritating flashing avatars are??? Aaargh!)
Old_Man_Monkey - May 05, 2003 - 01:55 PM
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No, not really, didn't see it as a real bother, but I am happy to discontinue using it.
jmccubbin - May 06, 2003 - 09:17 AM
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Galak. I checked out hte web page for how to use the PBeM tool and understand it except for 1 thing. Handoff's Do I just type in handoff and roll a catch roll for the reciever?
My scaven are ready for our test game.
jmccubbin - May 06, 2003 - 09:19 AM
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OMM. There are 11 kinds of people in the world, those that get binary, and those that don't.
It's much more subtile that way.
Gertwise - May 06, 2003 - 01:15 PM
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jmccubbin wrote:
OMM. There are 11 kinds of people in the world, those that get binary, and those that don't.
It's much more subtile that way.
I guess I don't get it. 11 in binary is 3. Where's the 3rd person?
jmccubbin - May 06, 2003 - 01:39 PM
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I guess I am just one of those people who cant count in binary.... that's the subtile part.
Old_Man_Monkey - May 06, 2003 - 03:59 PM
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Nice, Cub, guess that comes from being a sub-tile dude!
jmccubbin - May 06, 2003 - 05:10 PM
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doooh, so I can't spell. That's why I play Scavin.....
GalakStarscraper - May 07, 2003 - 08:29 AM
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jmccubbin wrote:
Galak. I checked out hte web page for how to use the PBeM tool and understand it except for 1 thing. Handoff's Do I just type in handoff and roll a catch roll for the reciever?
Yes, make sure to change the catch roll to an accurate pass.
Galak
Old_Man_Monkey - May 07, 2003 - 05:00 PM
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Quote:
That's why I play Scavin.....
Hmm, Scavin? Chaotic wino rats? Ratty non-linear winos?
jmccubbin - May 08, 2003 - 06:23 AM
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Old man monkey's making fun of my Skaven. Tell him to stop. Run away run away....
Old_Man_Monkey - May 08, 2003 - 07:07 AM
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See, you CAN spell Skaven! You can probably count in binary, 10!
GalakStarscraper - May 08, 2003 - 02:42 PM
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Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
See, you CAN spell Skaven! You can probably count in binary, 10!
OMM ... jmccubbin called out my GenCon Halfling team in a test game. Ask him how many players he has on the pitch starting his turn 2 (1st half)
And he hasn't even had to deal with the aerial attack yet ... um ha ha ha ha!.
By the way ... My GenCon Fling team is definitely about to suffer its first lose. A Lizardman team BH'd both my Ogres by turn 3 of the 1st half ... ... The Flings are pretty impotent against the Saurus without my two Ogres.
Galak
Old_Man_Monkey - May 08, 2003 - 02:55 PM
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Fess up, jmcubbin, what's the body count? Can you still recognize a skaven when it's been broken into pieces? Or does it resemble a dusty fur wrap on the top shelf in the consignment store? 
(if I sound sensitive, the last league I played had skaven champions - couldn't touch the skittering critters!)
jmccubbin - May 08, 2003 - 03:55 PM
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He KO'd one line rat on turn 1 with a fling. I expect at most I lost 3 players leaving me 7 on field. I am at work so I cannot check. It only takes 1 to score, so all I really need is 1.
GalakStarscraper - May 08, 2003 - 06:53 PM
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jmccubbin wrote:
He KO'd one line rat on turn 1 with a fling. I expect at most I lost 3 players leaving me 7 on field. I am at work so I cannot check. It only takes 1 to score, so all I really need is 1.
3 KO'd linerats to one Fling at Turn 3. Shouldn't have razzed Jim ... now I've got two really dumb Ogres it appears.
Galak
Old_Man_Monkey - May 09, 2003 - 03:31 AM
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Ah, the karma of Nuffle! And it looks like the Lizardmen may have the answer to your Flings - as I suspected, I probably should have caused more carnage with Thrud before scoring . . .
jmccubbin - May 09, 2003 - 05:06 AM
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Its his turn 6 now.... no score, but I expect that to change. 3 Line rats KO, 1 Halfling KO, 1 halfling serious hurt. He has the ball unbothered 5 squares from endzone. Score will be 0-1 his favor my turn 6. So far a close game in my opinion.
GalakStarscraper - May 09, 2003 - 08:50 PM
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End of 1st half. Both teams have 11 players and the Flings are ahead of the Skaven 1-0.
Feel a little guilty ... jmccubbin didn't realize that you could throw Flings without the ball as he read the "may throw a teammate who is holding the ball" on page 23 as "must throw a teammate who is holding the ball".
So he didn't realize I could screw up his turn 8 scoring attempt by throwing a Fling downfield on my turn 8 to put a TZ on his Thrower with the ball who he thought was safe since he was 10 squares away from my closest player. His thrower than failed the dodge to get away from the Fling. But he thought it was an illegal play. So I feel a little cheap being up since I don't think he knew the TTM rules and might have played out his last 2 turns differently if he had realized that the Thrower was not safe.
Anyway ... jmccubbin is a great opponent ... 4 Gutter Runner are very annoying and my 3 Big Guys cannot seem to make a dent in his AV 7 armour ... so its a good game. Based on my games so far with the GenCon Flings though ... I have to admit that they have a decent chance to be very competitive at GenCon. I think both Old Man Monkey and jmccubbin would admit that Flings are just not supposed to be as good as this team is.
Galak
jmccubbin - May 10, 2003 - 08:10 AM
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Might have played differently, but even so I would have still had to make a throw, catch, handoff/catch and 2 dodges without catch re-rolls. I still may have failed to score.
I am glad I learned of TTM non-ball holding player this way instead of at the tourney.
I have played flings and know they can be a pain to stop from scoring because of the TTM. The added defense side of it makes a interesting game.
Lots of fun.
jmccubbin - May 10, 2003 - 09:47 AM
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Oh and about being the great player. I got a huge dose of humble pie when our league started. I tried playing that Rat Ogre on the line. Lost my first 5 games outright. It's my league that taught me how to use the rat ogre.
I learned well from losing.
I am impressed with your playing as well.
I am also having lots of fun, so don't feel guilty for sneaking one by me. 
Old_Man_Monkey - May 10, 2003 - 11:01 PM
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Quote:
I am glad I learned of TTM non-ball holding player this way instead of at the tourney.
I take from the above you will be in Indy, jmcubbin. That's great - I know I benefited from the test match I had with Galak.
BTW, the Skaven coach finally got a Rat Ogre in the league we've begun again - any hints you'd share about how to play against the beast?
Darkson - May 11, 2003 - 12:05 AM
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Stick a player in front of it, and wait for those double skulls to come rolling in 
jmccubbin - May 11, 2003 - 12:03 PM
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Swarm the Rat Ogre, make him throw 1 die blocks or 2 die blocks defenders choice. There is no easier way to defeat a Skaven team than to force the wild animal trait to work against him.
If he is smart he will play the RO as a back safty, if he does that, then the Skaven team is a pain to work against as generally you will only have 1 or 2 down field, which does not overwhelm the RO.
GalakStarscraper - May 11, 2003 - 12:08 PM
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Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
BTW, the Skaven coach finally got a Rat Ogre in the league we've begun again - any hints you'd share about how to play against the beast?
Have Deeproot Strongbranch stand next to him ... ST 7 with Block ...
Galak
Old_Man_Monkey - May 14, 2003 - 02:03 AM
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Quote:
Have Deeproot Strongbranch stand next to him ... ST 7 with Block ...
To paraphrase Donald Sutherland in 'Kelly's Heroes':
"There you go again, Galak - always with dem Halfing waves."
OMM
jmccubbin - May 14, 2003 - 04:24 AM
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And the front line report is...... Haflings 1-0 over skaven play 4 of 2nd 1/2.
Skaven 3 casulties caused to halfling 0 caused, Ogre is one of them, however it's debated since I rolled my armor/injury first instead of his. (pow/skull) I was unaware of order of AV rolls for pow/skull during PBeM.
I should score within 1-2 turns. Provided I pick up the ball and remember to declare pass....I mean accurate pass. If I forget to declare I don't pass, If I forget to declare accurate pass I fumble. That passer is sure in for a coaches talk after the game. At least he learned to dodge.
jmccubbin - May 16, 2003 - 06:09 AM
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I think the flings are going to tie me......
GalakStarscraper - May 17, 2003 - 07:15 AM
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jmccubbin wrote:
I think the flings are going to tie me......
Jim's skaven won. I will only say this ... Nuffle was kind to him at the end. A good game, Jim won fair and square ... and I will refrain from comments about the order of AV rolls in tabletop for double downs.
However Jim didn't realize/forgot two rules about TTM. 1) the player doesn't have to be holding the ball to be thrown ... 2) A Fling still gets a landing roll from an inaccurate pass .... ..... I should have had him just because he kept missing possible plans I could make .... sigh ... Darkson where is that Nuffle hater membership signup ...
Anyway that takes the record of my GenCon Fling team to 3-2 in practice.
The 3 wins (Dark Elf, Human, Skaven) were 60 point wins and the 2 losses (Lizardmen and Skaven) where 10 and 20 points respectively. (the lizardmen team crushed me 3-0 and won the cas war).
Galak
jmccubbin - May 17, 2003 - 08:45 AM
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I very much respect Galak's Hafling team. I hope to go back to that pow/skull point and re-try. I do have an Apothacary, so the game is still anyone's ball. I will try not to underestimate the haflings again. It is very reasonable that Galak will beat me in round 2, but I will sure give him a run for his money.
Darkson - May 17, 2003 - 10:01 AM
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GalakStarscraper wrote:
.... sigh ... Darkson where is that Nuffle hater membership signup ...
I'll stick it in the post right away
Glad to see you've seen the light
jmccubbin - Jun 04, 2003 - 12:17 PM
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Could someone bring a digital camera to Gencon. I would like to get pictures of my painted team. I don't have a digital camera.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 04, 2003 - 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Could someone bring a digital camera to Gencon. I would like to get pictures of my painted team. I don't have a digital camera.
I'll be bringing mine - I'm taking some pictures for HouseRulez and my own archive.
skummy - Jun 04, 2003 - 01:36 PM
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I love the NAF Florida logo.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 04, 2003 - 01:42 PM
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Thanks, skum! I've just embarked on a 6 tournament-, 90 day-, 16 plane-, 6 car-, 12,300 mile Bloodbowl summer, so if you're in Baltimore, Indy, Chicago, Toronto, or Atlanta, I'm the guy with the FLA NAF logo attached to whatever name badge they're giving out.
Just finished Charlotte and the ConCarolina - will be submitting an article to Brian at House Rulez by week's end.
skummy - Jun 04, 2003 - 01:49 PM
Post subject:
You should come down to DC while you're in the area. After all, there are more NAF registered coaches in Virhttp://www.bloodbowl.net/naf.php?page=locator&op=list&nation=United+Statesginia than anywhere else in the world! I just know that's killing Agentrock!
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 04, 2003 - 03:31 PM
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I had hoped you guys were coming over to North Carolina - I will expect to see you in Baltimore. And don't count too fast - I know of at least five other FLA coaches who have not marked themselves on the Coaches' List!
mrinprophet - Jun 11, 2003 - 02:14 PM
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T-shirts, T-shirts, T-shirts...
Sorry...but I have to have one from the tourney...
skummy - Jun 11, 2003 - 02:28 PM
Post subject:
Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
I had hoped you guys were coming over to North Carolina - I will expect to see you in Baltimore. And don't count too fast - I know of at least five other FLA coaches who have not marked themselves on the Coaches' List!
The Carolina tourney was just bad timing for us. I'm probably moving to Washington State some time in July, so I don't think I can make the Baltimore tourney, either. I let the rest of my league know about it, and I'd expect them to show.
snew - Jun 14, 2003 - 07:18 AM
Post subject:
jmccubbin wrote:
Could someone bring a digital camera to Gencon. I would like to get pictures of my painted team. I don't have a digital camera.
My camera will be there too. Between us there ought to be a few good shots I'd guess. I'm considering throwing in my true color lamp as well. You never know what lighting is going to be like and it makes all the difference in the world. See ya there.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jun 24, 2003 - 03:17 AM
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Hey, Galak - I think you're up next - YEEAAAHHH!!!
What's the word with GenCon and how can I help?
OMM
GalakStarscraper - Jun 24, 2003 - 09:37 PM
Post subject:
Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
Hey, Galak - I think you're up next - YEEAAAHHH!!!
What's the word with GenCon and how can I help?
OMM
Only thing I need now is to finish up the fig painting for the trophies, get the spreadsheet ready for tracking the tournament, and the sheets to use for the players to record the game results.
Otherwise, we are good to go.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Jun 25, 2003 - 11:10 AM
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Official website says we have 50 coaches registered ... unless the Chaos Cup expands that means you all have made this the biggest US tournament in 2003 ... thanks!
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Jun 25, 2003 - 11:29 AM
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Special thanks by the way to Brian St. James (author of House Rulez). He has volunteered to be our odd man out player if we have an odd number of coaches for any round. If we have an even number, Brian will help me referee. It's a rare person that would be willing to come all that way (Brian lives in Canada) and just help run the tournament.
Again I'd like to say a huge thanks to the folks that have donated materials or time to make GenCon the biggest US tournament of 2003 .... I'm guessing that we'll have 60 to 75 coaches at this point.
Fanatic (Andy Hall)
GW-US (Tim Huckleberry)
www.ChaosMailOrder.com
The Bitter Blood Bowl League of Tampa, Florida and Old Man Monkey
Deathwing
www.VirtualAlchemist.com
Brian St. James
Chet Zeshonski
All your help has been sincerely appreciated in whatever way you have provided it.
Galak
Tutenkharnage - Jun 25, 2003 - 03:01 PM
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I don't believe I've provided much help, but I graciously accept your thanks all the same
-Chet
GalakStarscraper - Jun 25, 2003 - 03:50 PM
Post subject:
Tutenkharnage wrote:
I don't believe I've provided much help, but I graciously accept your thanks all the same
-Chet
Okay Chet I threw in at the end.
Chet and I spent several days discussing the rules for the GenCon Bowl. What would work ... what wouldn't. How do we keep it like the Blood Bowl but fix the problems, etc, etc. It wasn't much, but I'm convinced that those discussions will be an important difference in how well the GenCon Bowl is perceived by the coaches playing in it.
Galak
Deathwing - Jun 25, 2003 - 06:00 PM
Post subject:
LOL! Just spotted my name amongst the august ranks.
Bet I did the least! 
GalakStarscraper - Jun 25, 2003 - 06:59 PM
Post subject:
Deathwing wrote:
LOL!
Just spotted my name amongst the august ranks.
Bet I did the least!
Deathwing donated gate prizes which I need to get off my duff and try to speed paint if they are to be ready by GenCon.
The gate prizes are the only thing still up in the air as to whether it will happen or not.
Oh yeah and I need to get a 20 question Pub Quiz worked up. The last one I did was a 10 question for FanaticCon which had an average right of 4 (I really didn't think it was that difficult, but DW told me I've been immersed in the trivia for too long) .... top scorer had an 8 out of 10. .... need something for the GenCon Bowl also.
Galak
jmccubbin - Jun 30, 2003 - 07:11 AM
Post subject:
Just finished Origins. Only 5 people showed, which really stunk....but I did have the best painted team.
GalakStarscraper - Jun 30, 2003 - 07:31 AM
Post subject:
For all those of you that pushed for T-Shirts ... the image is now finished to make your own ... a black image for white or coloreded shirts and a black shirt image have been supplied.
http://www.blood-bowl.net/Gencon.html
All you need to do is download the image, buy Iron-On Transfer paper at your local office supply, print the image on your printers BEST print setting, and then Iron-On. I've got one made as a test which I may give away in the prize pool (the minotaur came out a little too gray, so I've darkened the image ... (note Old_Man_Monkey you should download the new image also as its better)).
Anyway have fun guys ..... anyone have any tips on how to speed paint 70 BB players for gate prizes and have them look at least useable by coaches .... I'm looking at that pile with dredd since I still need to finish painting 2 of the trophies.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Jun 30, 2003 - 07:32 AM
Post subject:
jmccubbin wrote:
Just finished Origins. Only 5 people showed, which really stunk....but I did have the best painted team.
Sorry to here this James ... it wasn't highly advertised .... but still Origins is a pretty large Con .... however, I seem to remember Magic just dominating it from the year I went (of course Magic was why I was there so it probably helped that impression).
On the same note, I just finished painting my brother's Lizardman team for GenCon ... the team is mix of painting and basing work by Milo Sharp and myself. I really like how the team came out. He won't be able to win best painted team (since he didn't do it), but it will be easy on the eyes.
Galak
jmccubbin - Jul 01, 2003 - 11:09 AM
Post subject:
Galak,
Do you mind if I use a good portion of your Gencon Rules for the setup of next years Origins. I plan to run it next year, since I pratically ran it this year.
James
GalakStarscraper - Jul 01, 2003 - 11:56 AM
Post subject:
jmccubbin wrote:
Galak,
Do you mind if I use a good portion of your Gencon Rules for the setup of next years Origins. I plan to run it next year, since I pratically ran it this year.
James
Its not mine to copyright so knock yourself out.
Lets see how well they work though first. I think they are going to work well, but theory and application are two different beasts.
I really do plan on collecting a guide to the major tournaments to discuss the different ways to hold the event ... when done I'll get it up on mine and this site. I think everyone seeing the basics side by side how GenCon, Blood Bowl, Chaos Cup, Underground, Tulip, Spikey, CamCarnage, DragonBowl, etc, etc, etc were run could be very helpful in running their own.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Jul 01, 2003 - 11:57 AM
Post subject:
No tips on speed painting 70 minis huh ... sigh.
Galak
jmccubbin - Jul 01, 2003 - 01:13 PM
Post subject:
One possible suggestion. Send some of the figs out to people you feel can do a good job. This is best if you do this via non-mail so it does not cost you.
Second suggestion: Don't worry about painting them. If they are door prizes for GenCon, then most people would be happy enough to paint their own free fig.
Tim - Jul 01, 2003 - 02:59 PM
Post subject:
Galak, if you still need help with the spreadsheet, i have a 99% finished Excel spreadsheet that does up to 200 coaches in a max. 8 round swiss style tournament.
Configurable scoring, automatic random drawing of first round possible, automatic swiss setting with manual override if coaches would have to play twice, configurable printout sheet for the current standings, ...
Interested?
What's missing is the documentation, but i could give you a quick runthrough.
To all others: i'll put it on the Halfing Scribe's Website as soon as it's finished.
Indigo - Jul 02, 2003 - 02:41 AM
Post subject:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
I really do plan on collecting a guide to the major tournaments to discuss the different ways to hold the event ... when done I'll get it up on mine and this site. I think everyone seeing the basics side by side how GenCon, Blood Bowl, Chaos Cup, Underground, Tulip, Spikey, CamCarnage, DragonBowl, etc, etc, etc were run could be very helpful in running their own.
Galak
Good thinking Batman.
GalakStarscraper - Jul 02, 2003 - 07:36 AM
Post subject:
Tim wrote:
Galak, if you still need help with the spreadsheet, i have a 99% finished Excel spreadsheet that does up to 200 coaches in a max. 8 round swiss style tournament.
Configurable scoring, automatic random drawing of first round possible, automatic swiss setting with manual override if coaches would have to play twice, configurable printout sheet for the current standings, ...
Interested?
What's missing is the documentation, but i could give you a quick runthrough.
To all others: i'll put it on the Halfing Scribe's Website as soon as it's finished.
I'm interested ... send it to xxxxx ... and make sure the Title says Blood Bowl Spreadsheet as I delete automatically all internet email that comes to that address.
Galak
Tim - Jul 02, 2003 - 02:23 PM
Post subject:
Sent it. Let me know if it went through.
GalakStarscraper - Jul 12, 2003 - 11:58 AM
Post subject:
Tim wrote:
Sent it. Let me know if it went through.
It looked good Tim ... but in the end I edited the spreadsheet I used for the MBBL and MBBL2 for the GenCon Bowl as this way I would be very familiar with how it worked in case of a problem, and it also allowed me to easily add in Painting and Sportsmanship points.
And there was much rejoicing about getting this done.
Special thanks for Dave Allen who built the shell that I used for the spreadsheet.
Only 5 things left on the list to do to be finally ready for the tournament, but this item was a BIG one on the To Do list.
Again thanks for sending your spreadsheet to me Tim ... just was running out to time to really get a great understanding of it.
Galak
Khankill - Jul 18, 2003 - 08:21 AM
Post subject:
tick.....tick.....tick.....
Less than a week to go!! Now, if only that week could go a bit quicker.
Xtreme - Jul 18, 2003 - 02:02 PM
Post subject:
I am totaly stoked for this my first tournament. I took teh week off starting Tuesday so hopefully I can spend some time working on some strategy and tactics so I don't look to bad.
GalakStarscraper - Jul 18, 2003 - 03:54 PM
Post subject:
Okay ... I'm feeling generous.
I'm going to met a caster after GenCon to get a limited edition figure cast for blood-bowl.net ... Melfaxis won one for being the 100,000th hit at blood-bowl.net. I'll have between 300 and 500 cast but no more than 500.
And since it looks like I'll have them by the end of the year 2003 ... another contest is in order.
There are currently 55 coaches PRE-registered to play in the GenCon Bowl (pre-reg closed one month before the tournament) Guess how many coaches will ACTUALLY play in the tournament on this thread (NOT via PM or email .. just type your guess into the thread ... entries must be in before the tournament starts on Friday morning). Also please note ... we only have space for a maximum of 140.
Closest person will be put in with Melfaxis for getting one of the limited edition figures once I have finally got it cast ... note: coming to GenCon is not required to play. In case of ties, all people tieing will receive one.
Yes, I'm in a good mood and looking forward to this also.
Galak
Darkson - Jul 18, 2003 - 04:35 PM
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He, he! Try different answer here!
Um..... 97
Darkson - Jul 18, 2003 - 04:38 PM
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Oh, and Galak, can you get plenty of photos? Especially of the prizes as they're handed out.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jul 18, 2003 - 05:37 PM
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Wow - what a guy! My guess is another 55 walkups for a total of 110.
(If I post 45 or so more times, does that count? )
And you better move this thread - I'll bet there will be a lot of guessin'!
skummy - Jul 18, 2003 - 05:55 PM
Post subject:
Darkson wrote:
He, he! Try different answer here!
Um..... 97
I swear to you, Darkson - I did not post my TBB guess before looking at this!
Okay, my alternate guess is 75 (becasue we all know it's going to be an odd number)
jmccubbin - Jul 18, 2003 - 06:01 PM
Post subject:
I'll go with 68 players.
GalakStarscraper - Jul 18, 2003 - 06:44 PM
Post subject:
Okay what the heck ... too different contests ... one here and one on TBB ... so different guesses are allowed. What the heck you all caught me in a good mood.
And OMM ... one vote per a website per a person ... please ... thanks ... ya git!
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Jul 18, 2003 - 06:54 PM
Post subject:
Darkson wrote:
Oh, and Galak, can you get plenty of photos? Especially of the prizes as they're handed out.
Going to try ... I'm hoping that Brian St. James can assist me getting some good pictures, and I'm going to try to get some better shots of the trophies in better light before the tournament. Because if they go over well ... rather than recreate the wheel I may do the same 8 trophies next year.
Oh and I got another email from someone bringing a team with a 200k+ Star on it (that isn't a stunty team) ... so that's 2 non-stunty teams with big cost stars that I know of. I'm going to be VERY curious to see if the inflated cost these teams had to pay for their star effected their ability to build a solid roster for the rest of the team or not.
Galak
jmccubbin - Jul 18, 2003 - 08:08 PM
Post subject:
Question for the tourney. Star players, rules says you can hire a star player. Is that Singular, meaning only 1 or can I actually hire 2?
Old_Man_Monkey - Jul 18, 2003 - 08:54 PM
Post subject:
Galak's probably tired from all his labors, so I'll take a stab at it:
Multiple Star Players are allowed so long as you can fully pay for them; witness Galak's own Goblin Team of Terror over at TBB:
http://www.talkbloodbowl.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4189&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=345[/url]
Nasty boyz!
Old_Man_Monkey - Jul 18, 2003 - 08:59 PM
Post subject:
Too tired now to post that many times anyway . . .
One last thing, Galak: can you put a picture of all the trophies together over on your site please? If not, no problem.
skummy - Jul 18, 2003 - 09:08 PM
Post subject:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
And OMM ... one vote per a website per a person ... please ... thanks ... ya git!
So I can't make up a "Dork Lord" persona on TBB just to get an extra guess in? Damn!
Old_Man_Monkey - Jul 18, 2003 - 09:29 PM
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Now that's proper git thinking, skum!
Tutenkharnage - Jul 19, 2003 - 10:44 AM
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101, just to make you REALLY happy and give you the opportunity to claim "more than 100"
-Chet
Indigo - Jul 21, 2003 - 03:04 AM
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65 people
(Decided using my patented "random number between 55 and 100" generator)
Deathwing - Jul 21, 2003 - 04:26 AM
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62
Khankill - Jul 21, 2003 - 05:10 AM
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66, 55 preregistered + 10 at site and Brian
jaylazer - Jul 21, 2003 - 06:52 AM
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I went low at TBB so I'll go higher here.
Let's say 83.
Tim - Jul 22, 2003 - 10:02 AM
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74 here
Xtreme - Jul 22, 2003 - 02:07 PM
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How about 77
tinywv - Jul 22, 2003 - 09:21 PM
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Hmm, I'll go with 55 + 35 for 90 total.
destro - Jul 23, 2003 - 02:01 AM
Post subject:
I am not preregistered but will be at the tourney so that makes at least 56. but I will guess 66 for the overall total.
I did notice that only 49 were signed up for saturday though, do we need to guess for both days or just the first day?
GalakStarscraper - Jul 23, 2003 - 07:17 AM
Post subject:
destro wrote:
I am not preregistered but will be at the tourney so that makes at least 56. but I will guess 66 for the overall total.
I did notice that only 49 were signed up for saturday though, do we need to guess for both days or just the first day?
Just the first ... I think folks just didn't know they needed to sign up for both when the tournament first started allowing pre-reg.
Galak
Tutenkharnage - Jul 23, 2003 - 03:18 PM
Post subject:
Last post for me before I take a team I've never played before to GenCon. Cheers!
-Chet
jmccubbin - Jul 24, 2003 - 07:10 AM
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Less than 24 hours to go......oh wait time zone change.. Less than 25 hous. I sure hope I can sleep tonight.
Old_Man_Monkey - Jul 24, 2003 - 01:23 PM
Post subject:
OK, GenCon is HUGE!!! Everything Galak and others said it was.
Found Jaylazer, Val and Tiny - can't reach our host (hmmm, I wonder if he LEFT HIS CELL PHONE AT THE HOUSE . . . )
Probably good that Galak is taking a break - the tourney will match the surroundings and the surroundings are GREAT! This is going to be fun!
(Oh, party at my suite - Residence Inn Airport - after the tournament; somebody bring a basketball - pool is open til 11pm. Bring your own potables - that's beers for the monosyllabic).
Look forward to seeing everyone!
-OMM
AnthonyTBBF - Jul 24, 2003 - 02:08 PM
Post subject:
good luck at the tourney guys, wish I could be there!
Big kudos to Tom for organizing a truly impressive event!!
Melifaxis - Jul 24, 2003 - 02:56 PM
Post subject:
Have fun, kick the crap out of each other, and let us know how it goes...
Darkson - Jul 25, 2003 - 12:03 AM
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Damn, I really must win the lottery this year
KarlLindemann - Jul 26, 2003 - 12:32 PM
Post subject:
Why can't people watch the bloodbowl tournament?
tinywv - Jul 27, 2003 - 10:25 AM
Post subject:
Just got home. I played some of the greatest opponents. Most everybody didn't take the games too seriously and had fun with them. I haven't laughed that much during games in a long time. The folks I met were unbelievable. Thanks Galak! It was a well run tourney and I will be back next year!
jmccubbin - Jul 28, 2003 - 06:39 AM
Post subject:
I herby claim worst luck, and most fun. I tied 2 consecutive games simply because of bad luck.
First game, all I needed was my Rat Ogre not to roll double skulls and
then my Gutter Runner could go in to a TD. I rolled double skulls. (Tie)
Second Game - Last play, needed my gutter runner to recieve a clean handoff. Rolled a 1. (Tie)
3rd Game- Open play, Rat Ogre double skulls, then stopped the Orcs cold, had 8 of his players trapped against the wall. Then Thrud turned on me in second half. Very close game. Final result 0-1 loss.
4th Game. Oh I got sick.......
Every time I fouled using anyone BUT Thrudd, I got caught and failed to break amour.
Best part was watching my opponets figure out how the heck they were going to stop my front line. Thrud, HeadSplitter, and RatOgre.
Gots lots of colpliments on my paint job. So guess what..... I'm putting the whole team on Ebay for auction. 2 Rat Ogres, 2 Storm Vermin, 7 Linerat, 2 Throwers, 4 gutter runners, 1 apothocary, 1 head coach.
Indigo - Jul 28, 2003 - 07:42 AM
Post subject:
so does anyone have any pictures to share? or who the winner was?
Old_Man_Monkey - Jul 28, 2003 - 08:32 AM
Post subject:
My pics will have to wait for return to Florida - but what a great great time! Not enough space or time to convey all the thoughts of the tournament, the convention, or the players. Just a wonderful time playing Blood Bowl.
James, you may stake claim to the worst luck (though there are rumors of other contenders . . .) but I'll definitely challenge you on who had the most fun - there's hopefully 50 or so other guys who feel the same!
And though I'm certain I will say this more than once in more than one stage, I'll start first here - THANK YOU, Galak, for organizing, promoting, and conducting a first class event - it exceeded all expectations.
Well done!
-OMM
GalakStarscraper - Jul 28, 2003 - 10:24 AM
Post subject:
I typed a massive documentation on the tournament and the TBB system ate it without posting it (which I was going to copy over here) .... I'll try again later guys.
Well until I get time to retype all that here are the 4 most important pieces:
1) Results: http://www.blood-bowl.net/GenCon/GenCon2003Results.htm
2) Race Results: http://www.blood-bowl.net/GenCon/GenCon2003RaceResults.htm
3) Winning # for the contest: 59 ... which means Deathwing won the mini (we had 69 people pay for the tournament but had 10 no-shows)
4) No team with Star Players took any of the 5 performance trophies (ie 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Most TDs, or Most CAS) ... and only the Humans had a team with a star player place higher than all the teams from the same race without them. .... ie the NEW SYSTEM WORKED!!!!
I'll retype all the other stuff later ... d*mn TBB board eating my post.
Galak
Other last note ... found a caster with a booth at GenCon ... his figs looked good, his price was reasonable ... sooooooo .... sent the blood-bowl.net limited edition fantasy football fig to the caster on Saturday. He expected I'll have the 300 I ordered in by the end of the September at the latest. So Melfaxis/Indigo/Deathwing ... your prizes will be coming soon.
Melifaxis - Jul 28, 2003 - 10:45 AM
Post subject:
It sounds like a great event!!!
I'm sorry that I wasn't able to attend (same for Chaos Cup). Next year...
Cool news on the mini front as well, thanks for the update
AnthonyTBBF - Jul 28, 2003 - 01:33 PM
Post subject:
Same here, bad timing for me. I won't miss the next one! Our TBBF representatives did us proud, Dave placed 10th with Goblins and Jason came in 26th with his Undead. Way to go lads!
GalakStarscraper - Jul 28, 2003 - 01:43 PM
Post subject:
AnthonyTBBF wrote:
Same here, bad timing for me. I won't miss the next one! Our TBBF representatives did us proud, Dave placed 10th with Goblins
and Jason came in 26th with his Undead. Way to go lads!
Anthony ... I'd love to hear from Jason if he still think bringing Luthor for 260k on his Undead was a good investment after playing the 4 games at the tournament.
Also just to show you how close Dave was to WINNING the tournament with his Goblins. ONE more TD in ANY 2 of his 4 games would have given him 233 points which would have won the tournament.
Galak
Melifaxis - Jul 28, 2003 - 02:19 PM
Post subject:
With Goblins!??!!
WOW!
AnthonyTBBF - Jul 28, 2003 - 04:12 PM
Post subject:
Dave plays Gobbos almost exclusively in our league, he's learned to use them well! At the last Orion Cup he cleared the pitch with them against a Chaos team. I mean literally cleared it. check out the Chaos dugout:
Only 3 guys left on the pitch near the end:
Go Gobbos!
Indigo - Jul 29, 2003 - 01:47 AM
Post subject:
lol thats a sight
nice pitch & dugout too
goblins - team for the future?
Ombi - Jul 29, 2003 - 05:55 PM
Post subject: The Mighty Goblins!?
I feel lucky about the game I had against Dave's goblins. I was up 2-0 thanks the the dice rolls, then hung on for the 2-2 tie game. I was the only coach that he didn't beat. It was a great game with tons of laughs. I just wish I was able to talk during the tourney, stupid hoarse throat.
Anyway, I had a great time, and I WILL drag local coaches with me next year. Thanks for organizing a great tournament, Tom!
Now hopefully Dave's Gobbos won't be at Gamesday Chicago. My Chaos Dwarfs are hungry for the trophy.
Ombi
AnthonyTBBF - Jul 30, 2003 - 07:05 AM
Post subject:
Indigo wrote:
lol thats a sight
nice pitch & dugout too
goblins - team for the future?
Yup, Dave's pitch is somethin' else. It's the one that won the Best Pitch award at GenCon. He has a lot of little touches that are added over time, everytime I see it it has something new on it
Melifaxis - Jul 30, 2003 - 07:29 AM
Post subject:
This proves it: Goblins are too powerful...they need to be STR 1
GalakStarscraper - Jul 30, 2003 - 02:51 PM
Post subject:
Guys ... everyone has times in their lives when they go ... oh for the love of Pete you have to be kidding me.
I just had one of those today.
Chet and I were going through the GenCon results to try to decide if the system worked ... how to improve it ... etc, etc. etc. Chet is a great guy for looking a numbers similar to what I like to do.
In the process of looking over the numbers I realized that I had factored in the wrong number of drops when I double checked that everyone who had played had their Painting and Sportsmanship votes entered into the spreadsheet. I was off by one, which meant I missed the fact that one person's votes were never entered. I would like to mention at this point that I've reprogrammed the spreadsheet to seriously red flag if this happens again for next year.
The person whose sheet I missed was Jaylazer's (Jay Deckman). Who as Nuffle and Murphy would perdict had played one of the top 3 players. In fact Jay had played Wolfgang (aka Oakinava on TBB). Jay's combined Sportmanship and Painting points for Wolfgang were 12 points. Which means he won the GenCon Bowl with 241 points, Matt came in second with 231, and Ben in 3rd with 230.
At this point there is nothing I can do to erase the awards of the day. However, I have already contacted Wolfgang and trust me when I say that I'll make it right by Wolfgang ... in fact between the 3rd place finish and the stuff that I'll hook him up with, the overall effect will be pretty good.
Also when I write the article for BB Mag. I will make sure that Wolfgang is given proper credit.
Finally before someone like Tim mentions it. YES, Wolfgang had a 3 win - 1 loss record AND that loss was actually to Ben who with these new points he would have placed 1st over while Ben got 3rd. All I can say to that is that I have revised the system for next year because I realize that winning needed slightly more umph! in the scoring. The revised system that I'm currently looking at for GenCon 2004 would have Ben in 1st (301 points), Wolfgang 2nd (299), and Matt 3rd (287) with the same game data. As a sidenote, Khankill would get 4th under the new system (285) But that is all hindsight AND futuresight in the same paragraph .. sorry!
The bottom line here ... I screwed up. I'm making it public, and I'll make sure that my site and the BB Mag article mention the error as well. In addition, I'll make sure Wolfgang gets a Championship trophy of some type. It may not be as good as the real one, but it will be something for the mantle since for the rules of that tournament he was the winner of the day.
And me ... I'm going to now shot people who drop out of my tournaments which is what made me not realize that I was off by one on the Sportsman/Paint votes, and I'm going to make sure that next year the spreadsheet has several double checks so that this won't happen again.
I'll leave this humbling post with the thought that Wolfgang now joins the distinguished club of "robbed" coaches for major BB events.
Chet Z. for going undefeated, allowing no TDs against him, and only one player to cross the LOS with the ball the entire Resurrection tournament and not even placing in the top 3.
Geoff Porritt who would have won the Resurrection tournament if not for an error on his scoring sheet.
Now we get to add Wolfgang to the list ... I'm glad everyone is saying they had a great time. Sorry for this error on my part (going to hunt down and kill the drop players me thinks) ... and I look forward to trying again next year with a lot more idea of how to run a major BB event.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Jul 30, 2003 - 02:51 PM
Post subject:
GenCon pictures are now loaded at:
http://www.blood-bowl.net/GenCon/2003/
Also ... if you have questions on what a pic is ... please ask.
Galak
jmccubbin - Jul 31, 2003 - 08:51 AM
Post subject:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
And me ... I'm going to now shot people who drop out of my tournaments which is what made me not realize that I was off by one on the Sportsman/Paint votes, and I'm going to make sure that next year the spreadsheet has several double checks so that this won't happen again.
In my humble defense, even after I was throwing up Friday night, I drove 1/2 hour so I could place my painting and sportsmenship votes.
You don't want to shoot me??? I'm so young.....splattt.
Sorry Tom.
James
GalakStarscraper - Jul 31, 2003 - 10:31 AM
Post subject:
jmccubbin wrote:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
And me ... I'm going to now shot people who drop out of my tournaments which is what made me not realize that I was off by one on the Sportsman/Paint votes, and I'm going to make sure that next year the spreadsheet has several double checks so that this won't happen again.
In my humble defense, even after I was throwing up Friday night, I drove 1/2 hour so I could place my painting and sportsmenship votes.
You don't want to shoot me??? I'm so young.....splattt.
Sorry Tom.
James
For the record ... I don't blame you at all James. I had a lot of credit to you for coming in to vote for painting and sportsmanship despite being sick. Really its my own fault for not being more careful on how many drops I had when i checked to see how many Paint/Sports points I had entered. I added up the drops, and 60 players minus the # of drops = the number of sheets entered. However ... James had drove in to vote ... so it was # of drops - 1 which was my mistake.
No one to blame her but myself. However this year's GenCon made me greatly improve the spreadsheet, and improve the scoring system. So I harbor no blame to anyone on this but myself. I'm very glad I got to met you James. I'm glad you had a good time. I'm really sorry you got sick, and I hope I see you again next year. Heck maybe my wife will even let me drive over to play in the Origins tournament next year if it is outside our annual family vacation.
Oh and I give you the big balls award for being the only coach willing to field Thrud.
Really no hard feelings at all ... consider the before mentioned statement me ranting against a group of folks to try to make myself feel better ... not your fault or problem.
By the way ... in a nice move of divine justice. When I passed by the Klingon jail. The 1st person to drop out of the touranment was in the jail. I gave the jailkeeper an extra $5 to keep him there an extra 5 minutes ...
Galak
Tutenkharnage - Jul 31, 2003 - 11:02 AM
Post subject:
Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
(Oh, party at my suite - Residence Inn Airport - after the tournament; somebody bring a basketball - pool is open til 11pm. Bring your own potables - that's beers for the monosyllabic).
Wait a minute - you mean I could have been hooping it up on you less agile types, and I didn't know it?
Oy...
-C.
Tutenkharnage - Jul 31, 2003 - 11:11 AM
Post subject:
Hats off to Tom for running a GREAT tournament. Coaches had fun, bottom line.
As for debates about which coach was the most "luck challenged"...don't go there
-Chet
Zarhan - Jul 31, 2003 - 03:44 PM
Post subject:
Although Nuffle wasn't very kind to the only High Elves, we still finished 1-1-2. I credit Tom, as I felt that all my matches were versus good coaches and teams that were very comparable. I had asked him afterwards about Elf Star Players, and he mentioned Thrudd, I am not familiar with Thrudd, but have since and it probably would have been a good gamble for me to try him. Anyhows, I think I learned that going up in the first half in both ties, and then starting the second with 7 and 5 in those games I learned that Elf teams are too expensive to bring, as I would like to have maybe 1 or two reserves Just in case. So I am thinking, like so many others that Orcs may be the way to go. I like Orcs, but like to try things others don't IE bringing a high elf team. My advise is to never bring any elf team to the tournament, although I may try again, with Thrudd just to see , anyways thanx Tom and to all the participants especially my opponents. I too had one opponent drop from the tournament, so my only suggestion would be work out a system that helps in case you have an opponent that drops. That person dropping could cost someone the tournament, and I think personally records should count the most, if someone is 4-0, and someone else 3-1, and the undefeated looses to paint points or something that isn't right, especially if the 4-0 beat the 3-1. Just an opinion. Anyways I look forward to next year, and it looks like most voted for 5 games, I hope it will still only be FRI and SAT, as any more days than that takes away from the overall CON.
Bobbo
Deathwing - Jul 31, 2003 - 05:51 PM
Post subject:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
Deathwing won the mini.......<snip>...So Melfaxis/Indigo/Deathwing ... your prizes will be coming soon.
Whoo hoo! Excellent...thanks Tom!
Old_Man_Monkey - Jul 31, 2003 - 06:28 PM
Post subject:
Quote:
Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
(Oh, party at my suite - Residence Inn Airport - after the tournament; somebody bring a basketball - pool is open til 11pm. Bring your own potables - that's beers for the monosyllabic).
Wait a minute - you mean I could have been hooping it up on you less agile types, and I didn't know it?
Oy...
-C.
Hey, I was ready . . . everybody was so serious . . .
And who you calling 'less agile' - maybe 'more winded' but the monkey's got game - old game but still . . .
And before we get too far along in the 'look up old submissions' gig, somewhere there's a post from YOU KNOW WHO saying that "Skaven probably can't win in tournament play"!!! Aren't you glad that they 'only' finished 2nd and 3rd now, rather than 1st and 2nd at GenCon?!?!
Yet, Tut, you hit it perfect here - 'bottom line, coaches had fun'!
Hope Chicago brings more of the same . . .
-OMM
GalakStarscraper - Jul 31, 2003 - 06:36 PM
Post subject:
On Elves .... when the new Elf team becomes official with 60k linemen ... you'll see Elves become competitive in tournaments after that.
As for next year. It will still be 4 games. I've had several folks email me that they would not play in a 5 game tournament at GenCon. So I'd rather have a fuller 4 than a smaller 5.
Next year, I'm going to actually pass out a survey so I can understand exactly how many would RATHER have a 4 game tournament vs those who WON'T PLAY in a 5 game tournament.
Oh and I've already figured out a better scoring system that would have given me the results I wanted for the tournament.
Galak
Indigo - Aug 01, 2003 - 01:51 AM
Post subject:
Deathwing wrote:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
Deathwing won the mini.......<snip>...So Melfaxis/Indigo/Deathwing ... your prizes will be coming soon.
Whoo hoo! Excellent...thanks Tom!
didn't see that before! Thanks!!
Indigo - Aug 01, 2003 - 01:56 AM
Post subject:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
... the Klingon jail...
lol, please explain this! am i right in thinking people dressed up as klingons would take money to lock people up for the day?
Khankill - Aug 01, 2003 - 05:24 AM
Post subject:
Indigo wrote:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
... the Klingon jail...
lol, please explain this! am i right in thinking people dressed up as klingons would take money to lock people up for the day?
Not for the whole day, but other than that you nailed it. The person arrested can pay his bail and be set free. It is all for charity I believe.
Tutenkharnage - Aug 01, 2003 - 06:44 AM
Post subject:
Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
And before we get too far along in the 'look up old submissions' gig, somewhere there's a post from YOU KNOW WHO saying that "Skaven probably can't win in tournament play"!!! Aren't you glad that they 'only' finished 2nd and 3rd now, rather than 1st and 2nd at GenCon?!?!
Yeah, I saw that, too
I have a theory that says, "Coaches get careless against Skaven." I have another theory that says, "Any time you can give Block to a Rat Ogre after Game One, you'll be ok." And I have a third theory that says, "I usually beat Skaven." So add 'em all up and you'll see where I'm coming from
-Chet
snew - Aug 01, 2003 - 07:41 AM
Post subject:
Tutenkharnage wrote:
Old_Man_Monkey wrote:
(Oh, party at my suite - Residence Inn Airport - after the tournament; somebody bring a basketball - pool is open til 11pm. Bring your own potables - that's beers for the monosyllabic).
Wait a minute - you mean I could have been hooping it up on you less agile types, and I didn't know it?
Oy...
-C.
Oi! Me and the missus missed a party. Seems I'm hanging out on the wrong message board.
GalakStarscraper - Aug 01, 2003 - 08:12 AM
Post subject:
Indigo wrote:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
... the Klingon jail...
lol, please explain this! am i right in thinking people dressed up as klingons would take money to lock people up for the day?
You pay money to the Klingons for charity (I think the minimum is $10 for 10 minutes of lock-up time), and help them find your chosen victim. They or anyone else can pay bail to keep them out or get them out early. OR ... the other side of the coin ... anyone walking by can contribute any amount they want to keep them in longer... $1 = 1 minute more of lock-up. Its a lot of fun, and the person in the prison has to do evil stuff like sing I'm a little tea cup as punishment while locked up (Kligons are cruel) .... but its all for charity ...
Galak
Deathwing - Aug 02, 2003 - 07:53 PM
Post subject:
Any idea when the results are going in? doc_drak was/is sitting at #4 overall some 4 points off the top (prior to Gencon results), and has just finished runner up in the Chaos Cup.
Old_Man_Monkey - Aug 02, 2003 - 08:43 PM
Post subject:
Two great weekends of Bloodbowl - each with its own special highlights and enjoyments. Full marks to the Spanish team overall for its rather dominant performance and particularly to Xavier for winning the Cup. Most of all, a great thanks to each of the players who were there, trooping from room to room and making the two days of mayhem superb fun.
Pics to follow in the next couple of days for Chaos Cup - thanks to Tim Hucklebery, Sean O'Sullivan, Josh and the rest and of course to Jervis for putting on a fine, fine event.
-OMM
GalakStarscraper - Aug 03, 2003 - 06:41 AM
Post subject:
Deathwing wrote:
Any idea when the results are going in? doc_drak was/is sitting at #4 overall some 4 points off the top (prior to Gencon results), and has just finished runner up in the Chaos Cup.
I can send results to however VERY quickly ... however Brian didn't know who I was supposed to send them to. Just give me an email address and I'll shoot the results off. Also I don't know who all Brian signed up at the tournament, so it could be that someone signed up that original marked his sheet as a non-NAF member ... so paint me slightly confused as to how I should report the results.
Do I send in all the matches? Do I strip out just matches where one of the players wrote down that he was NAF or had signed up recently for it?
A little guidance and I can have results in within a day.
Galak
Deathwing - Aug 03, 2003 - 08:44 AM
Post subject:
TBH I'm not sure. I'd email Gregg and cc Jason and ask them directly.
(adds are on the 'Contact Us' page).
Just remind them to double check with Brian that they pick up anybody who may have signed up at the event and not indicated themselves as a member before the results go in.
dlb1969 - Aug 03, 2003 - 11:31 AM
Post subject: Galak and tournaments...
First of all, and I know you probably don't have anything to do with this, but I think the new elf team sucks. It's not needed and the current elf teams are perfectly fine as is. The problem with tournaments isn't the cost of the elf teams, though they are a little too expensive, it's with the star players and secret weapons unbalancing effects. Neither of those facets are balanced through out. Whether that is the way it is meant to be or not I don't know. If tournaments are going to allow star players then each team should have an equal amount of closely balanced star players. The same with secreat weapons. The secret weapons may not have to be completely balanced, but I think that they should be balanced enough so that they are balanced in conjuction with the team composition. I know there is a similar problem with the dwarves, in that they are kind of expensive also. That pretty much eliminates them having a good team with star players or secret weapons. While I think that the cost hike that you implemented in the GenCon tournament kind of helped, it also made it even more impossible for those more expensive teams to have star players; other than Thrud. The dwarves for instance have only two and the deathroller is pretty much a one hit wonder and that's only if you actually roll good enough to injure someone while he is on the field. Since the deathroller gets sent off if it is knocked over it is a huge liability when facing strong star players such as any of the big guys. It's AV is a non-important attribute since you don't have to injure it to get it off the field, just knock it over. The other dwarf star player is good, but expensive when your talking about only having 1 mil to buid a team with expensive rookies to begin with.
I'd like to see an all rookie tournament done by someone at one of these conventions. Only rookie players and rookie big guys, not secret weapons or star players. I don't really care for wizards either, but I didn't see any at GenCon anyway. I'm not sure how good or bad wizards can be in the LRB rules. I know they aren't as powerful as before.
I thought the tournament was great other for the most part. The only suggestion I would have is that the painting and sportsmanship votes should be used as tie breakers and not to decide the overall champion. That should be based purely on the total points for wins, losses, ties, scoring, casualties, etc.
I think you did a great job though and applaud you. I can't wait to participate in the next tournament in my area.
GalakStarscraper wrote:
On Elves .... when the new Elf team becomes official with 60k linemen ... you'll see Elves become competitive in tournaments after that.
As for next year. It will still be 4 games. I've had several folks email me that they would not play in a 5 game tournament at GenCon. So I'd rather have a fuller 4 than a smaller 5.
Next year, I'm going to actually pass out a survey so I can understand exactly how many would RATHER have a 4 game tournament vs those who WON'T PLAY in a 5 game tournament.
Oh and I've already figured out a better scoring system that would have given me the results I wanted for the tournament.
Galak
GalakStarscraper - Aug 03, 2003 - 12:16 PM
Post subject:
dlb1969,
I'll be honest ... you are the first and only person who complained about secret weapons at GenCon. Only 7 teams had secret weapons out of the 60. In fact, most the folks I talked to really like the rules that allowed the weapons a little more front and center time compared to the stars.
The 7 teams:
2 Orcs with B&C Goblin
1 Dark Elf with Poisoned Dagger
1 Dwarf with Deathroller
1 Goblin with B&C
1 Goblin with B&C and Chainsaw
1 Goblin with B&C, Chainsaw, and Bombs
Now forgive me if I don't see this as a problem at all in regards to weapons.
Also, the Underworld Cup was in Michigan last year. Rookie teams, no stars at all, no wizards, no weapons. While I had a lot of fun, I REALLY missed the extras (for me the no stars/no wizards kills my ability to bring the team I wanted).
Bottom line for me ... I had a lot of really great feedback on the star players and that the GenCon rules worked. I've had great feedback that the weapon players rules were good, and when/if secret weapon rules get added back to the game for rookie players than more teams will have them (but Elves still won't (except Dark)). And I really don't have a problem at all with allowing wizards for 150k ... as you'll notice not a single team out of 60 brought one.
There are rookie only tournaments out there ... I just don't think they are as lively as mixing in some of the other rules. Also the Star Players allowed at GenCon made for some very interesting decisions on team building. 2 Orc teams brought Morg at 280k ... they didn't do nearly as well as the Orc teams that didn't because of the fact that he sucked up just waaaayyyy too many resources to have a decent rest of the team.
However, I appreciate your feedback and I'll keep in all in mind for next year. However, even if I take painting out of scoring ... I will never take out Sportsmanship. See I have ZERO problem with a guy who goes 3 wins - 1 tie beating a guy who went 4 win-0 losses for the 1st place trophy if its sportsmanship points that change this. Blood Bowl to me is NOT ABOUT WINNING. Its about a game of tactics to be ENJOYED to several friends from all over the globe. As long as I run GenCon ... sportsmanship will account for a minimum of 15% of the total tournament points. To me a cutthroat winner ... deserves the 2nd place prize if the sportsmanship makes him lose the cup.
Galak
neoliminal - Aug 03, 2003 - 04:52 PM
Post subject:
When are the GenCon games getting entered into the database?
GalakStarscraper - Aug 03, 2003 - 07:41 PM
Post subject:
neoliminal wrote:
When are the GenCon games getting entered into the database?
Well JKL ... I'd do it myself if I knew how ... the nice thing with the spreadsheet is that everything was tracked from the point the tournament was over.
I just have no idea who to send them to ... I'll send them to Greg and see what happens.
Tom
GalakStarscraper - Aug 03, 2003 - 07:58 PM
Post subject:
John,
Just sent in the results of the GenCon Bowl to Gregg and Jason. If they have any questions, just have them ask. Sorry I didn't understand the procedure ... I could have mailed this a week ago.
Tom/Galak
Ombi - Aug 03, 2003 - 09:27 PM
Post subject:
This is in response to dlb1969's post.
I don't think the new Elf team sucks, if anything they're too good. In comparison to the High Elves, the new team has Linemen and Throwers that are 10K cheaper, but have 1 less AV. That's a great tradeoff for a starting team. The Catchers and Blitzers are 10K more but have 1 more skill, which again is a fine trade. If this new team ever becomes official, I fear that it will negate the High Elf team. Maybe that's the intention in the long term? The new team is better in almost every way IMO.
As for the tournament, I really had a good time at GenCon. Galak's star player system and points system worked out well. Better than at the Chaos Cup, where every Chaos Dwarf team had Hthark as a star (even me ). Every other team that had a decent star seemed to use theirs as well. And the chaos cup point system looked a little too simple, and counted a tie the same as a close loss. Galak's system had more details that break potential ties.
I do think that GenCon's sportsmanship and painting points should be downsized a little bit from affecting the overall score, but that's about the only possible problem I see in the tourney.
As for teams being at a disadvantage for not having/using good stars, I can see the argument for the Elves, but I disagree that Dwarfs need a good star. They all start with block, which can make a big difference on the field. And the Troll Slayers deal with the Big Guys and Star players well. And I'm not sure how many teams with stars made it to the top spots at GenCon, but my starlesss Chaos Dwarfs took #12. We don't need no stinkin' stars! 
Just my opinions.
Jim
GalakStarscraper - Aug 04, 2003 - 08:38 AM
Post subject:
Ombi wrote:
And I'm not sure how many teams with stars made it to the top spots at GenCon, but my starlesss Chaos Dwarfs took #12. We don't need no stinkin' stars!
GenCon Bowl: 3 of the top 10 teams had a non-secret weapon Star Player
Chaos Cup: 9 of the top 10 teams had a non-secret weapon Star Player
Jim next year, you'll get part of your wish.
I'm going to greatly reduce the impact of painting. However sportsmanship will still be a big deal. I'm going to have an award for Best Tactician. This will go to a player with a better gaming record if he doesn't win 1st. (ie a 4-0 player who loses 1st place to a 3-1 player because of sportsmanship).
I think Blood Bowl is about having fun, and like I said as long as I run GenCon, the sportsmanship will be a big deal (15% of the total possbile points ... painting is going to be reduced to only 5% next year of the total possible (which is the lowest amount I can give it with the scoring system I use)).
Galak
Ombi - Aug 04, 2003 - 01:05 PM
Post subject:
Hmmmm, interesting stats for the star players in the 2 tournaments. There are definately different strategies for each of the 2 tournies.
As for the painting and sportsmanship points, I'd rather see a slight decrease for both categories instead of a big change for one and no change for the other. Ah well, we can see how it works out next year.
By the way, are the final Chaos Cup standings up yet? I tried to find them last night on the specialist page, but they were no where to be found.
Jim
Old_Man_Monkey - Aug 06, 2003 - 07:00 AM
Post subject:
OK, test time since I've not posted pics to the board before:
[/img]
Hmm, looks like image size could be an issue . . .
But here's one of the 40 or so coaches at the end.
There are contact sheets of all pictures as well as a master sheet of downloadable pics at the website:
www.oldmanmonkey.com
The site isn't complete yet - haven't had much time to write, but I felt the need to get the pics out, so there they are.
Enjoy!
-OMM
snew - Aug 06, 2003 - 07:04 AM
Post subject:
That's a nice pic of darthnoir trying to kiss jay lazer. To bad we don't have the rest of the names. The pic came out great. Thanks Old Man Monkey.
Old_Man_Monkey - Aug 06, 2003 - 07:52 AM
Post subject:
OK, resized some others:
Tom looking busy . . .
Brian St. James referees a rules 'discussion' between Chet and John
Jaylazer and Chris square off next to Darthnoir and Jon - carnage ensued.
smaller pic of above - hmm, JKL as RMN - any conclusions to be drawn here??
The winners, with the wrong prizes . . . .
Great people, great tourney, great time . . .
-OMM[/b]
neoliminal - Aug 06, 2003 - 04:57 PM
Post subject:
i am not a crook.
AnthonyTBBF - Aug 06, 2003 - 07:30 PM
Post subject:
The Spanish Team wins another trophy?! Man the rest of us need to step it up a notch!
I really like the idea of country based teams, wouldn't it be cool if we could have our own World Cup? I am gonna make up some shirts for us Canadians I think, that must be the key to success.
Indigo - Aug 07, 2003 - 03:37 AM
Post subject:
there is already a european tournament going ahead (although sadly no UK team this time), and it WOULD be superb to have a world cup every four years...
with enough notice, like a year or two, I know I could probably make one
perhaps each country should lobby and bid for hosting it, like the olympics!!
this is a great idea, maybe a little optimistic, but good to talk about nonetheless! each time a country wins it could be held in that country the following time!
GalakStarscraper - Aug 07, 2003 - 06:49 AM
Post subject:
AnthonyTBBF wrote:
The Spanish Team wins another trophy?! Man the rest of us need to step it up a notch!
I really like the idea of country based teams, wouldn't it be cool if we could have our own World Cup?
I am gonna make up some shirts for us Canadians I think, that must be the key to success.
Actually Anthony ... Team Austria was the power at GenCon.
after including all the points ...
Austria took 1st and 4th
USA took 2nd
Canada had 3rd
Galak
AnthonyTBBF - Aug 07, 2003 - 07:01 AM
Post subject:
Did they have Team Austria shirts? I need to prove my theory.
GalakStarscraper - Aug 07, 2003 - 08:50 AM
Post subject:
AnthonyTBBF wrote:
Did they have Team Austria shirts? I need to prove my theory.
No Team Austria shirts, sorry. I think us USAers have just become crappy at defending our borders ... no practice on that front for a long time. Either that or Farthest Travelled = Most Fanatical (ie someone who really lives this game rather than casually plays ... ie he's a d*mn good coach or he wouldn't have made the trip).
Galak
neoliminal - Aug 07, 2003 - 01:08 PM
Post subject:
Have you boys entered in the results yet!?!
GalakStarscraper - Aug 07, 2003 - 02:41 PM
Post subject:
neoliminal wrote:
Have you boys entered in the results yet!?!
At this point Neo I will VERY politely refrain from commenting on the procedurces of the NAF in relation to entering in tournament results.
Tom
Deathwing - Aug 07, 2003 - 03:13 PM
Post subject:
GalakStarscraper wrote:
At this point Neo I will VERY politely refrain from commenting on the procedurces of the NAF in relation to entering in tournament results.
LOL...you know I thought it was pretty slick nowdays...
GalakStarscraper - Aug 08, 2003 - 06:42 AM
Post subject:
Resulted entered in NAF database ... 60 of the games had two NAF coaches.
Galak
AnthonyTBBF - Aug 08, 2003 - 07:11 AM
Post subject:
I pushed the magic button, results should be up now.
Khankill - Aug 08, 2003 - 07:19 AM
Post subject:
Whoo Hooo!! #5 team in the states. Trailing Xtreme by a point or so for #1 human in the US(congrats Xtreme). With a good showing at the Underworld cup I hope to regain that status.
Indigo - Aug 08, 2003 - 08:55 AM
Post subject:
groan, I've now been pushed to page 7/8, 312th in the world 
AnthonyTBBF - Aug 08, 2003 - 08:57 AM
Post subject:
Khankill wrote:
With a good showing at the Underworld cup I hope to regain that status.
I am sure the Canadians have something else in mind
Deathwing - Aug 08, 2003 - 09:01 AM
Post subject:
JKL 2nd and 3rd?
S.B.B.U.S.A.-D.L.N.W!
neoliminal - Aug 08, 2003 - 01:52 PM
Post subject:
I'm going to start using a roster I'm actually good at, so I can have 1st, 2nd AND 3rd place.
Xtreme - Aug 08, 2003 - 02:33 PM
Post subject:
#1 in the states WOW
I never expected to have anything to brag about.
Hopefully I can get some more points at the Underworld.
Tutenkharnage - Aug 08, 2003 - 03:15 PM
Post subject:
neoliminal wrote:
I'm going to start using a roster I'm actually good at, so I can have 1st, 2nd AND 3rd place.
He's also going to find a way to continue to draw clueless noobs, like that poor sap he crushed 7-0 at that last tourney
-Chet
neoliminal - Aug 08, 2003 - 03:19 PM
Post subject:
Tutenkharnage wrote:
neoliminal wrote:
I'm going to start using a roster I'm actually good at, so I can have 1st, 2nd AND 3rd place.
He's also going to find a way to continue to draw clueless noobs, like that poor sap he crushed 7-0 at that last tourney
-Chet
Actually I should have taken it easy on him... having won 7-0 I was put on the first table. It was anything but easy after that!!!
Deathwing - Aug 08, 2003 - 04:14 PM
Post subject:
Is that a BB reference, or did it happen again at GenCon?
neoliminal - Aug 08, 2003 - 05:56 PM
Post subject:
BB reference. I was sick as a dog at GenCon and was lucky to get the three victories I got.
Deathwing - Aug 08, 2003 - 06:13 PM
Post subject:
In that case the poor useless noob sap was poor old Tony, who nevertheless came in at #125, above 54 other people including two of our staffers...
Thadrin, Indigo, step forward and take a bow!
neoliminal - Aug 08, 2003 - 09:40 PM
Post subject:
I think Chet just like to think I can't play. What he doesn't realize is that I can't play against Amazons...
GalakStarscraper - Aug 09, 2003 - 08:20 AM
Post subject:
JKL... remember that email about views for the database ... make sure the last name one has Country in it also.
David Sutton didn't put down that he was an NAF member, and Woody and I didn't catch it when reviewing the names who played in the tournament. However looking over the Canada table I found him.
As a result 3 games are missing from the GenCon data that should count for NAF points and for David thats 2 wins and a tie.
Is there anyway to add these 3 games??????? or is David just screwed for not listing himself as an NAF member on the GenCon sheets.
Galak
Deathwing - Aug 09, 2003 - 09:29 AM
Post subject:
Galak, you need Christer to insert the games, but they can go in. It's not the first time we've missed somebody, and I daresay it won't be the last.
GalakStarscraper - Aug 09, 2003 - 11:15 AM
Post subject:
Deathwing wrote:
Galak, you need Christer to insert the games, but they can go in. It's not the first time we've missed somebody, and I daresay it won't be the last.
I'll PM them to Christer tonight ... thanks ... got to go help my son run his tomato and lemonade stand.
Galak
AnthonyTBBF - Aug 09, 2003 - 12:01 PM
Post subject:
Tomatoes and Lemonade, together at last.
Hangus - Aug 09, 2003 - 12:38 PM
Post subject:
dude you yanks are weird
GalakStarscraper - Aug 09, 2003 - 03:42 PM
Post subject:
AnthonyTBBF wrote:
Tomatoes and Lemonade, together at last.
My wife refused to listen to me about where to put the stand.
Soooooooo ... we sat for one hour without getting a single customer. Then after my son started complaining about having no customers, my wife agreed to move to the new location that I had suggested.
Sold 1.75 USD worth of lemonade in 10 minutes and then a major thunderstorm arrived .... we'll try again tomorrow ... this time starting where I said in the first place.
It was originally supposed to be Tomotoes and Iced Tea ... but I guess my son vetoed Iced Tea for lemondade. Anyway ... my wife had me build her a very large vegetable garden this year and we harvested about 300 tomatoes yesterday ... so its either give them to the homeless food kitchens in the area or give me son a chance to make a little spending money.
Galak
Old_Man_Monkey - Aug 09, 2003 - 05:10 PM
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I'll buy what you have left so you can give them to the food kitchens . . . just as long as the donation goes in under Josh's name.
snew - Aug 09, 2003 - 06:40 PM
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I played Dave Sutton. I guess my ranking will go down now.
dlb1969 - Aug 10, 2003 - 05:57 PM
Post subject: Galak...
I agree with you in that I didn't see the problem with secret weapons at the GenCon tournament. By the way, I was the one dwarf team with the deathroller. The only reason that I actually brought it was because I've never used it before. In our home league we don't allow star player, secret weapons, or wizards; but that is talking about an on going league where you can actually build your own star players. We are actually voting on secret weapons after this season is over.
Anyway, I too liked the way you went about making star players a risky choice and secret weapons not so risky. I'm just stating that I think it pretty much makes someone think twice about bringing any elf team other than darkies. I also don't see someone bringing amazons either since I don't think they can have secret weapons. I'm pretty sure that lizzies can't either. Anyway, I did like the way you set the tourney up. I guess I'm just against wizards, star players, and secret weaopns(though not as much as the previous two). I wouldn't mind secret weapons if they were balanced to every team or at least if every team had at least one secret weapon choice. I guess what I'm getting at is that I think tournaments should be balanced out so that all the official teams are viable possibilities. When you are playing with star players, secret weapons, and wizards that puts certain teams at a serious disadvantage. I'm not saying it's wrong either way. Playing those disadvantaged teams seems like a waste of time, other than having some fun. There is little chance that you have a chance to win, unless you are very, very lucky.
I don't mind star players or secret weapons if they are balanced, but I'll never like wizards. I don't think they belong in the game at all.
I do agree with you also, after rethinking, that sportsmanship should be included in the final tally. I think that maybe painting should be part of a tie breaker system though. I would still, of course, give out a best painted award.
Dave
GalakStarscraper wrote:
dlb1969,
I'll be honest ... you are the first and only person who complained about secret weapons at GenCon. Only 7 teams had secret weapons out of the 60. In fact, most the folks I talked to really like the rules that allowed the weapons a little more front and center time compared to the stars.
The 7 teams:
2 Orcs with B&C Goblin
1 Dark Elf with Poisoned Dagger
1 Dwarf with Deathroller
1 Goblin with B&C
1 Goblin with B&C and Chainsaw
1 Goblin with B&C, Chainsaw, and Bombs
Now forgive me if I don't see this as a problem at all in regards to weapons.
Also, the Underworld Cup was in Michigan last year. Rookie teams, no stars at all, no wizards, no weapons. While I had a lot of fun, I REALLY missed the extras (for me the no stars/no wizards kills my ability to bring the team I wanted).
Bottom line for me ... I had a lot of really great feedback on the star players and that the GenCon rules worked. I've had great feedback that the weapon players rules were good, and when/if secret weapon rules get added back to the game for rookie players than more teams will have them (but Elves still won't (except Dark)). And I really don't have a problem at all with allowing wizards for 150k ... as you'll notice not a single team out of 60 brought one.
There are rookie only tournaments out there ... I just don't think they are as lively as mixing in some of the other rules. Also the Star Players allowed at GenCon made for some very interesting decisions on team building. 2 Orc teams brought Morg at 280k ... they didn't do nearly as well as the Orc teams that didn't because of the fact that he sucked up just waaaayyyy too many resources to have a decent rest of the team.
However, I appreciate your feedback and I'll keep in all in mind for next year. However, even if I take painting out of scoring ... I will never take out Sportsmanship. See I have ZERO problem with a guy who goes 3 wins - 1 tie beating a guy who went 4 win-0 losses for the 1st place trophy if its sportsmanship points that change this. Blood Bowl to me is NOT ABOUT WINNING. Its about a game of tactics to be ENJOYED to several friends from all over the globe. As long as I run GenCon ... sportsmanship will account for a minimum of 15% of the total tournament points. To me a cutthroat winner ... deserves the 2nd place prize if the sportsmanship makes him lose the cup.
Galak
Xtreme - Aug 10, 2003 - 09:06 PM
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I agree 100% that sportsmanship belongs in the total points, but I really don't like painting being envolved in deciding a winner. there are a few reasons for this. I think it encourages people to have someone else paint their team. then that leads to how fair it is for the guys who paint their own team but aren't as good. I also do believe that modeling is a big part of the hobby but don't think it affects gameplay. I think the total tournament points should judge how you played the tournament. How well you played and how good of a sporstman you were.
I think that painting should be held seperate and definatly given it's own reward.
Tutenkharnage - Aug 11, 2003 - 06:36 AM
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Xtreme wrote:
I agree 100% that sportsmanship belongs in the total points, but I really don't like painting being envolved in deciding a winner. there are a few reasons for this. I think it encourages people to have someone else paint their team. then that leads to how fair it is for the guys who paint their own team but aren't as good. I also do believe that modeling is a big part of the hobby but don't think it affects gameplay. I think the total tournament points should judge how you played the tournament. How well you played and how good of a sporstman you were.
I think that painting should be held seperate and definatly given it's own reward.
Remember that this is a hobby, and that painting is part of that hobby. If you judged everything solely on the on-pitch results, no one would care about Painting or Sportsmanship; if you judged everything solely on the field and Sportsmanship, no one would care about painting.
I don't want to line up against people who use unpainted or very poorly painted teams in my own league, much less a tournament I've paid money to attend. It looks sloppy because it is sloppy. If including these points encourages everybody to take that part of the hobby a bit more seriously, I'm all for it.
-Chet
GalakStarscraper - Aug 11, 2003 - 06:45 AM
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Also I relaxed the painting standards for GenCon compared to normal GW events. GW asked me to required flocked or decorated bases ... I allowed painted bases instead. Normally GW requires 3 colors ... I went with 2.
However, my view point is that of Chet's that it all part of a great hobby. Also painting points made up very little of the total points at GenCon and next year it will be even less of the total.
Galak
AnthonyTBBF - Aug 11, 2003 - 07:15 AM
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Quote:
I agree 100% that sportsmanship belongs in the total points, but I really don't like painting being envolved in deciding a winner. there are a few reasons for this. I think it encourages people to have someone else paint their team.
If you have the right system, painting scores can be fair. A system like they had at the BB is best IMO, since it rewards you for painting no matter what it looks like (3 colours, a bit of highlighting, bases flocked - easy stuff). When scores based on ability are added, that's a problem since not everyone can paint to a high standard. I do believe that everyone is capable enough to paint well enough to achieve a good score under the BB system.
Tim - Aug 11, 2003 - 10:20 AM
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I agree with Anthony. The target of giving some painting points to be incorporated into the ranking in is to avoid people showing up with unpainted teams.
However, the maximum points should be reachable for even the worst painter, as it's basicly a count of techniques used on a mini than the judgement of the outcome.
If you do not do this, there's no incentive for a "bad" painter to come with a painted team and you'll see some people come up with pure metal.
I also liked the BB system and we are using it in Mannheim as well. Giving 3 points max. for painting compared to 5 points for a game win.
Tim - Aug 11, 2003 - 10:26 AM
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Xtreme wrote:
#1 in the states WOW
I never expected to have anything to brag about.
Hopefully I can get some more points at the Underworld.
Uff ... just kept my 18th place by 1.89 points ... must play tournaments ... must win games ...
Deathwing - Aug 11, 2003 - 10:40 AM
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What I particularly liked about the BB was that the guys in the final and the other match-ups for the final game were all based on pure results, and then sportmanship and painting came into it to give everybody (outside the finalists) our final placing and seperate those on the same points through pure results.
Shame it wasn't in place for Res, eh Chet? I'd bet that the 'injustice' at Res had a lot of impact on the system at the BB though...
Tutenkharnage - Aug 11, 2003 - 10:53 AM
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Deathwing wrote:
What I particularly liked about the BB was that the guys in the final and the other match-ups for the final game were all based on pure results, and
then sportmanship and painting came into it to give everybody (outside the finalists) our final placing and seperate those on the same points through pure results.
Shame it wasn't in place for Res, eh Chet?
I'd bet that the 'injustice' at Res had a lot of impact on the system at the BB though...
Something like this was already in place at Resurrection, assuming I'm reading your description correctly. The teams on Table One at Resurrection were the "right" teams. P and S were added after the fact to determine final seedings.
Resurrection had an impact, primarily in the S points and the points awarded for a win.
Sportsmanship
The Resurrection system, by averages, predicted the following for a field of 80 coaches:
* 0 coaches with 4 pts
* 4 coaches with 3 pts
* 17 coaches with 2 pts
* 34 coaches with 1 pt
* 25 coaches with 0 pts
That's almost exactly what it delivered. This was very poor, since we didn't have 25 coaches who were bad sports, but we had 25 scores that said otherwise. The new system (which awards points based on the number of first-place votes, but groups them) addresses this somewhat.
Wins
Resurrection awarded 4 pts for a win. The Blood Bowl awarded 5 if I'm not mistaken.
Resurrection was a test case. We all knew that going in. I had fun, and Simon Merton had a big smile on his face when he won, that's cool with me.
-Chet
Deathwing - Aug 11, 2003 - 12:17 PM
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Tutenkharnage wrote:
Something like this was already in place at Resurrection, assuming I'm reading your description correctly. The teams on Table One at Resurrection were the "right" teams. P and S were added after the fact to determine final seedings.
Resurrection had an impact, primarily in the S points and the points awarded for a win.
Sportsmanship
The Resurrection system, by averages, predicted the following for a field of 80 coaches:
* 0 coaches with 4 pts
* 4 coaches with 3 pts
* 17 coaches with 2 pts
* 34 coaches with 1 pt
* 25 coaches with 0 pts
That's almost exactly what it delivered. This was very poor, since we didn't have 25 coaches who were bad sports, but we had 25 scores that said otherwise. The new system (which awards points based on the number of first-place votes, but groups them) addresses this somewhat.
Wins
Resurrection awarded 4 pts for a win. The Blood Bowl awarded 5 if I'm not mistaken.
Resurrection was a test case. We all knew that going in. I had fun, and Simon Merton had a big smile on his face when he won, that's cool with me.
-Chet
Indeed, but what I was getting at was that the result on Table 1 for the final game at Res. didn't determine the winner. Had the BB system (for sportsmanship and painting, pts per win etc notwithstanding) been in place at Res. then the 'final' would have been between yourself and GeoffP. i.e. we would have had a definate winner and runner up irregardless of painting and sportmanship, then painting and sportmanship seperate the field (and in the case of the BB provided the 'Warhammer Cup Winner', i.e. the coach with the most points with results, sportmanship and painting combined). What I'm trying to get at here is the whole 'sportsmanship/painting' issue. At the BB they were used as a seperator, they didn't determine the overall winner, but at the same time they provided us with a 'People's Champion' as well.
Should sptship/painting factor in results? Yes...
Should they determine the overall winner? No...
The BB had it right in that regard IMO..indeed benefiting from Res being a test case..
(Footnote: Simon Merton's always got a big smile on his face, he was grinning just as much over in France when he finished in the lower half tied with myself and CC winner Xavi..)
Tutenkharnage - Aug 11, 2003 - 02:02 PM
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Ah, I see. Sorry, I missed the inference.
-Chet
jmccubbin - Aug 11, 2003 - 04:35 PM
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My Gencon team is now on ebay for sale.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3142025208&category=7389
GalakStarscraper - Aug 11, 2003 - 09:27 PM
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jmccubbin wrote:
You forgot Thrud.
Galak
Old_Man_Monkey - Aug 12, 2003 - 06:07 AM
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Er, Thrud did in fact play for James' mighty Skaven side but he was in fact indentured to me for the next several years . . .
jmccubbin - Aug 12, 2003 - 08:00 AM
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No he is indentured to you until the end this drive. After that he switches owners.
Xtreme - Aug 12, 2003 - 09:47 AM
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Remember that this is a hobby, and that painting is part of that hobby. If you judged everything solely on the on-pitch results, no one would care about Painting or Sportsmanship; if you judged everything solely on the field and Sportsmanship, no one would care about painting.
I don't want to line up against people who use unpainted or very poorly painted teams in my own league, much less a tournament I've paid money to attend. It looks sloppy because it is sloppy. If including these points encourages everybody to take that part of the hobby a bit more seriously, I'm all for it.
-Chet[/quote]
I don't mind having a requirement that all models be painted but my biggest concern is the trend of having other people paint your models for you. Takes the painting out of the hobby. I think if the painting was kept seperate then people wouldn't feel like they have to show up with a great painted team and would bring one that they painted themselves.
jmccubbin - Aug 12, 2003 - 10:44 AM
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How about a penalty if you did not paint your own team, say 5 points. so a person who shows up with a nicly painted team, that they did not paint, would even out to a person who tried to paint their team thenselves, but did not do as good of a job.
People who do sloppy paint job would still get less than people who had their painting done for them, but people with average paint jobs that did it themselves would average 1-2 points more. People who did great jobs themselves would get the most.
Have this count to the Best painted team award, and not the overall win. Only have penalites to over all win for un-painted teams.
With my game record, I would still be proud to walk away with Best painted team, not so good coaching.
GalakStarscraper - Aug 12, 2003 - 12:44 PM
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Cannot remember everywhere I posted the point system for next year, but painting will count even less.
I'm just a big fan of the "people's champion" system where sportsmanship and eye candy appeal matter. So at least for GenCon those things are going to count.
Basically GenCon will be the Blood Bowl inverted. The Blood Bowl does the best 3 game point teams as 1st through 3rd and then has a people's champion that is the highest game point + plus sport and paint (IF I understand correctly). The GenCon tournament will be the top 1 to 3 people's champion with a special award for the player with the most game points (Best Tactician).
As for painting ... I think its important. When I sit across from a fine painted team I have more fun regardless of the source of the paint job. ... that's just my take on the game.
Now the real last 2 questions for me are:
1) Will I have time to finish converting and painting my team for the Underworld Cup.
2) I'm 80% sure I can go the tournament at Origins next year, so hopefully Jim has luck organizing it.
Tom/Galak
AnthonyTBBF - Aug 12, 2003 - 02:46 PM
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I don't think who painted the models matter that much. I don't think someone should win a Best Painted award if they didn''t apint their own models, but for points puposes I could care less. Some people just don't like to paint (although I can't imagine why!).
Xtreme - Aug 13, 2003 - 12:04 AM
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the only reason that I care who painted them is that I kind of feel like the time I put into my models was wasted. Since I knew before hand that I am not a good painter I should have just saved some money and had someone paint them for me. I think the whole thing helps to take painting out of the hobby, and encourages you to get your team a proffesional look by paying for it.
jmccubbin - Aug 13, 2003 - 04:59 AM
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Xtreme wrote:
I think the whole thing helps to take painting out of the hobby, and encourages you to get your team a proffesional look by paying for it.
I am sorry, but I not sure I understand your logic. As far as hobby goes for blood bowl, painting is pretty much %90 of the hobby.
Now if you are refering that 'the whole thing' being scores for tourneys, then ok it makes sense. If not please explain 'the whole thing'
James
Indigo - Aug 13, 2003 - 07:31 AM
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nah IMO the BB hobby is 1/3 minis & painting, 1/3 tournaments (or leagues) and 1/3 the friends you make out of it.
Xtreme - Aug 13, 2003 - 01:30 PM
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The whole thing was refering to a situation where people are bieng rewarded for not painting their own teams.
Old_Man_Monkey - Aug 13, 2003 - 02:06 PM
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I'm not sure how I'm being 'rewarded' for bringing a team to a tournament that someone else has painted - I am not eligible for any painting award by doing so, and the only real pleasure is bragging on a good painter who did a nice job painting the team and seeing how other players appreciate their work.
I agree 100% that painting awards as part of a competition should go only to those who have painted their own minis - I'm equally convinced that establishing a baseline of completion and grading those teams that are playing, whether painted by the player or someone else, should not come into play in determining rankings or standings.
The exception should be where two players are equal in match scoring and sportsmanship totals but have differing painting levels.
-OMM
Just my thoughts . . .
Darkson - Aug 19, 2003 - 11:58 AM
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Well, for me, the games are 20%, the minis 4%, the painting 1%, the friends and laughs 75%.
snew - Aug 20, 2003 - 07:16 AM
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jmccubbin wrote:
I am sorry, but I not sure I understand your logic. As far as hobby goes for blood bowl, painting is pretty much %90 of the hobby.
This is where opinions differ. You clearly enjoy painting. It's painful for me. I think I'd enjoy chewing broken glass and gargling with orange juice better. I love the minis and enjoy converting them, I hate to paint them. I know exactly where Extreme is coming from and I am having a hard time believing that no one else can grasp what he's saying.
If it were me making the rules, all teams would have to be painted as they are now. Painting would have absolutely no bearing on the tournament. Painting would be a sort of mini competition in itself where all the teams that were painted by the coaches would be lined up and judged by the coaches that play or just the coaches that painted their own minis, I don't know which is better. I always thought this was how it was done until I actually went to a tourney. I can't believe the way it's done now is supported by so many.
This way all the teams that were painted by coaches would be competeing only against other teams that were painted by coaches. The way it stands now, a nice team painted by one of us might get no credit if he were unlucky enough to play against people who drew others who had professionally painted teams.
GalakStarscraper - Aug 20, 2003 - 02:28 PM
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Guys I am seriously considering changing the way painting is done next year. Its the last thing I'm thinking about changing.
I may switch to a system more like the Blood Bowl and Chaos Cup.
Minimum to get into tournament: 2 colors and painted bases however that will get you 0 painting points.
5 points will be awarded for 4 or more colors used in the figure in some organized fashion.
5 points will be awarded for flocking, sanding, static grass, etc on the bases.
5 points will be awarded for detailing the miniature. Eye, lips, uniform details, lines between the fingernails, etc.
That way everyone pro painted or not can get 15 painting points.
Players gets 15 points for painting who painted their own teams will be asked to display their team over the 1st day's lunch for voting. The winner of Best Painted will get an additional 5 points.
This is about as fair as I can get the system. This way effort will count and hiring a painter to compete will not be required.
Galak
snew - Aug 20, 2003 - 05:38 PM
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I think that's a great way to do it Tom. Go with that.
AnthonyTBBF - Aug 20, 2003 - 05:55 PM
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Yup, I will be using that sort of system at Orion next year too.
CyberHare - Aug 21, 2003 - 06:30 AM
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I'm not a big fan of forcing people to paint their teams though I do understand why some people are. It's obvious that playing with or against a painted team is a much more pleasing ecperience but there are those out there that just don't want to be bothered to paint their team. To me that's where painting and sportsmanship points come in.
If I played against a coach with a bare metal team then he would not be getting many, if any sportsmanship points from me. And since that person would also not be getting any painting points they'd probably only be hurting themselves in the end.
To exclude people simply because their team isn't painted seems somewhat rude to me. In or local league, when it runs, we change teams so oftem that most people never finish painting a team.
At the Death Bowl I won't be forcing peple to paint their teams but I will be using the painting points system outlined below.
****************************
Team Appearance
A portion of tournament points will be awarded based upon team painting and presentation. Up to 10 points are awarded for team painting based on the criteria below. The official tournament judges will evaluate each team based on these 4 points and not on the aesthetics of the team. This means that any painter of any standard can gain the maximum 10 points if he puts the effort in and follows the guidelines below. All judges decisions are final.
Based - 2 point: All the bases in the team, including sideline staff, are painted and textures in some manner. Just being painted green is not enough!
Painted - 2 points: The team is painted. All models have at least 3 colors on them. Undercoats must not be visible.
Detailed - 2 point: All models have had the details painted in a variety of colors or with noticeable effects. This can be shading or highlighting etc. This discriminates between the merely painted team and the team that has had attention paid to it.
Representative - 4 points: All models on the team are representative of the race and position that they are meant to represent. Extra weapons not part of a finished and painted figure are removed. This does not mean that you must use official Blood Bowl miniatures. Only that an Ogre should look like an Ogre, a Dwarf should look like a Dwarf and so on.
IMPORTANT: In order to get the point all models in the team must fulfill the criteria. If even one model fails the points will not be awarded.
********************************
Brian
Khaine - Sep 12, 2003 - 08:29 PM
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Reading through these posts, I would hate to think that whilepainting is a great part of the hobby just because I'm not a master with a brush I would lose standing in any way. I feel if I do my best, and bring the best team I can painted by myself the best I can that should be enough.... If the paint job matters that much people will just swear their painters to secrecy before the tourneys and that's just promoting dishonest players. next it will be loaded dice and point shaving in the Bleachers