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Strategy and Tactics - Fouling in Tourneys!!!!!!!!

Ronnie - Jan 29, 2005 - 04:18 AM
Post subject: Fouling in Tourneys!!!!!!!!

Just a Personal Question to everyone

Do you guys foul quite alot in Tournements??

And if so do u care what u opponents think?

TuernRedvenom - Jan 29, 2005 - 04:21 AM
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I play Khemri and I foul loads. It's just what the team does. And no, opponents don't mind as over here we play ressurection style.

Graf_Arnhelm - Jan 29, 2005 - 04:49 AM
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I'd say never, as I've never been to a tournament so far Smile

But at the DungeonBowl, I intend to do it the way I do with my mates: a couple of times, except when they invite it upon themselves (eg when they are a pain in my butt, or the key player lies on the floor).

And as it's part of the game, I don't care too much what the other coach thinks about it.

DukeJan - Jan 29, 2005 - 05:00 AM
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It depends on the team I'm playing, but fouling definately has its uses. If you're standing next to a prone gutter runner, is there any other option than to foul it through the pitch?

Emberbreeze - Jan 29, 2005 - 05:46 AM
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I foul whenever the oportunity presents itself, almost never with the eye on me. (dark elf linemen are too expensive to be sent off)

with vamps I may find myself fouling more, even with the eye as thralls are cheap.

dwarfcoach - Jan 29, 2005 - 06:24 AM
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When the Ref has been got at: as often as sensibly possible. Twisted Evil

When the Ref is normal, not looking at anyone: vey little. (I never seem to have a spare player Confused

)

When using a team such with numerical superiority as Skaven, as often as possible. Twisted Evil

Indigo - Jan 29, 2005 - 07:42 AM
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Fouling is a tactic as viable as blocking - anyone who says otherwise is being foolish and denying themselves opportunities their opponent WILL take Wink

Darkson - Jan 29, 2005 - 08:42 AM
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As often as I can, but only if the game is still in doubt.

If I'm 2 or 3 TD's ahead (hey, it can happen!) AND have player number superiority, and there's no way for the opponent to come back, I won't bother.

Spazzfist - Jan 29, 2005 - 08:53 AM
Post subject:

Darkson wrote:

If I'm 2 or 3 TD's ahead (hey, it can happen!) AND have player number superiority, and there's no way for the opponent to come back, I won't bother.

I think there is also a question of sportsmanship in a situation like this too!

My philosophy is foul when you need to - when I am down in the numbers game,or a Wardancer or blodge Gutter Runner is lying on the ground just begging to be kicked! Smile

Spazz

juck101 - Jan 29, 2005 - 11:42 AM
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i foul on very few occasions as its not my game - but i would encourage my opponent to always foul if they wanted - its very much part of the game.

In fact its terrible that people even have to discuss it - as its 'ok' to throw, 'ok' to block: why should fouls be treated in another way

Mordredd - Jan 31, 2005 - 05:17 AM
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I don't think I've ever fouled in a tournament, but then the way I play I'm rarely presented with a tempting target that it's worth getting out of position to attack.

As for the sportsmanship issue, well I think fouling is part of the game and perfectly acceptable up to a point. When your opponent is outnumbered 11-3 and you're still fouling his players into the dead and injured box then you've gone way, way too far.

It's a simple test really. Are you fouling for a tactical advantage that will enable you to win the game? Or are you fouling because you've won already and the other guy can't fight back?

slup - Jan 31, 2005 - 05:31 AM
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I leave it to the Bright Crusaders not to foul.
I foul whenever it is in my favour.
3 woodelves are still able to score, 0 are not.

Marcus - Jan 31, 2005 - 08:17 AM
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A stunned player makes a great corner to a cage, and it's not hard to guarantee a stun in that kind of situation.

smeborg - Jan 31, 2005 - 12:34 PM
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Fouling is even more enjoyable in tournaments, because (assuming you are trying to win the match and you are up against a tough opponent) a greater degree of skill is required to set up a good foul (without jeopardising playing the ball).

I would say that I have won about 1 game per tournament with a judicious foul.

In the last tourney, Dint (my AV6 Hobgoblin) K.O.d an Ogre on the first turn (he never came back).

Cheers

Smeborg the Fleshless

Doubleskulls - Jan 31, 2005 - 03:16 PM
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I'm a big fan of fouling in tournaments. I'd happily sacrifice a lineman to remove a Bull Centaur, Werewolf or War Dancer and a combination of strategic fouling (i.e. removing key players) and tactical fouling (e.g. needing stuns or better to improve the chance of getting sacked) is a good game winning combination.

I've won more games because of a DP than I've lost because they've got sent off.

OldManDraco - Feb 02, 2005 - 03:49 AM
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So first skill in a tournament should be Dirty Player! I learned something here for my upcoming victory at the Dutch Open! Shocked

smeborg - Feb 02, 2005 - 04:03 AM
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Slup said:

"3 Woodelves are able to score, 3 not."

Well, I've scored a TD before now with 3 rookie Pro-Elf linemen, so Woodelves probably require just 2.

Which just goes to prove: keep on fouling the little b*****s.

Cheers

Smeborg

Hoshi_Komi - Feb 02, 2005 - 03:09 PM
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khemri = foulers Smile

30k skele for anything is worth it.

CD's= foulers Smile

40k hobgob for anything is worth it.

Norse= foulers Smile

50k lineman for anything is worth it. + Norse get pounded if they lose player advantage Smile

If I played elves----I probably wouldn't foul---70k lineman just are too valueable Smile

Xeterog - Feb 02, 2005 - 03:45 PM
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Maybe that is why I dont' foul much...the prospect of losing a 70k longbeard for the match is not always a risk worth taking.

Doubleskulls - Feb 02, 2005 - 05:12 PM
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Its all about risk reward. A Dirty Player longbeard is well worth risking fouling a Bull Centaur, and even if the eye is on you then get enough assists and its still worth doing.

Banelord - Feb 03, 2005 - 01:10 AM
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I take the dwarf blitzers for fouling (with dp), because the real blitzers of the dwarfs are the trollslayers. +1MA is great for reachíng the victim. And longbeards are better blitzers (because of tackle) for short distances as the real blitzers too.

Sputnik - Feb 03, 2005 - 05:10 AM
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I take the dwarf runners for fouling, best with dirty player. Only 6 passes required to get the skill, so it's the first skill choice of my dwarf team and usually the easiest to get. +2MA is not only great for reachíng the poor victim, the runner is also the fastest player and can thus foul most efficiently. And can also dodge to cause havoc among the players lying around. And longbeards, slayers and blitzers are better blitzers (because of block/tackle) anyway. Finally, AV8 means opponents concentrate on getting the runners out (at least in my league), so I want to take out as many guys as possible before they hurt him.

Sputnik

Xeterog - Feb 03, 2005 - 08:41 AM
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Nope..wouldn't use a runner myself. They are for ball handling..and make very good blitzers when you give them Block for the 1st skill. As one of only 4 players on the team with Agiliy 3, as well as the fastest player, runners have much more value than most opponents (not that a wardancer on the ground wouldn't be a tempting target). If anyone on a dwarf team should be the designated fouler, it should be a longbeard or a blitzer. (but blitzers have agility 3, so risking getting them thrown out is not a great prospect either)

Hoshi_Komi - Feb 03, 2005 - 09:58 AM
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are we still talking tourney fouling?

Melifaxis - Feb 03, 2005 - 10:51 AM
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Indigo wrote:

Fouling is a tactic as viable as blocking - anyone who says otherwise is being foolish and denying themselves opportunities their opponent WILL take Wink

Ditto

Shadewe - Feb 03, 2005 - 12:24 PM
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Melifaxis wrote:

Indigo wrote:

Fouling is a tactic as viable as blocking - anyone who says otherwise is being foolish and denying themselves opportunities their opponent WILL take Wink

Ditto

ditto 2

Disdane - Feb 03, 2005 - 12:43 PM
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Quote:

I think there is also a question of sportsmanship in a situation like this too!

Isn't the name of the game Blood Bowl?

Spazzfist - Feb 03, 2005 - 01:35 PM
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Yes it is. But my point is that if you are already winning by many TD's and your oppnent's team is all bloody and broken, do you really need to add injury to insult by fouling the crap out of him?

Ethrylain - Feb 03, 2005 - 02:05 PM
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Yes you do, there a most casualties award too

Xeterog - Feb 03, 2005 - 03:09 PM
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Many tourneys only count casualties that count for SPP's to count towards most casualties...(at least, the ones I've attended or thought about attending)

DukeJan - Feb 03, 2005 - 03:29 PM
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Still, even without the injuries counting the best defence is having no opponents on the pitch.

Hoshi_Komi - Feb 03, 2005 - 06:54 PM
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Gortex wrote:

Many tourneys only count casualties that count for SPP's to count towards most casualties...(at least, the ones I've attended or thought about attending)

I thought Gen Con counted fouls.....

and that's the reason they should count. No one can whine about just getting absolutely mauled. there is a goal Smile

Disdane - Feb 04, 2005 - 08:13 AM
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Absolutely keep fouling! Casualties = SPP's, SPP's = New Skills, New Skills = Better Team, Better Team = More Wins/Less Losses, More Wins/Less Losses = More Fun!

Would you stop throwing passes or scoring TD's? Granted your not hurting your opponent but you would be losing valuable SSP's if you did. 2 points may not seem like much but how many times have you had a player that only needed 2 points to star up? Heck how many times have you had a player that only needed 1 point?

Bottom line it's part of the game and anyone that cries fowl over casualties is more of a poor sport than the person simply playing the game to win and make his or her team better. It's not like they are real player's getting permanently injured or killed they are citadel mini's and can always be used again.

Spazzfist - Feb 04, 2005 - 08:28 AM
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Disdane wrote:

Two problems with what you are saying there chum!

1) Most tourneys do not record SPPs - this thread is asking about fouling in tourneys

2) You do not get SPPs for casualties caused by fouls.

Doubleskulls - Feb 04, 2005 - 12:37 PM
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Yep - you don't get SPPs for fouling any more (which is a good thing).

mflabranche - Feb 04, 2005 - 12:38 PM
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For me, it depends on the structure of the tournament.
I want my opponents players fouled lightly enough for me to win. If I foul my opponent's best players into the grave, then their subsequent opponents will have an easy time of it without the trouble.

If we took the bones out, they wouldn't be crunchy . . .

mfl

Disdane - Feb 04, 2005 - 01:57 PM
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Nevermind I'm not used to playing in such forgiving leagues. Our local group of guys causalties count and they are permanent. I took the time to read the rules for tournament play at some of the upcoming events and now I understand.

All I can say is wow. I couldn't imagine playing Blood Bowl and not having to worry about casualties. Then again we play so often we don't really do swiss tourneys anymore we play a season like in the NFL and then have playoffs and a championship game.

I guess I can see why with swiss play but even back when we did do swiss style tourneys casualties were still permanent. Again all I can say is wow Blood Bowl without permanent casualties.

Spazzfist - Feb 04, 2005 - 02:04 PM
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There are other threads which talk about the merits/faults of keeping casualties permanent during a tourney - check out "league style tournaments" in the Hosting Tournaments section.

Doubleskulls - Feb 04, 2005 - 11:25 PM
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Disdane - when pepole talk about tournaments here they mean real life face-to-face events where people play about 6 games over a weekend.

Disdane - Feb 05, 2005 - 08:19 AM
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Yes I realize that. At the local game place where we used to play it was face to face over the weekend and casualties still counted. When we played swiss tourneys if you were going into game 2 with 3 missing the game due to injuries caused in the previous game it was tough but we still managed.

I can see the advantages of not letting casualties cross over to the next game. Each coach playing the full team put together by the other coach. I can also see the limitations it puts on coaches advancing their teams. Our tourneys points carried over so by your last game your team had actually developed rather than just playing the same base team over and over each game.

I'm not saying one way is better than the other. I'm just saying it's not how I'm used to playing Blood Bowl.

Da_Scum - Feb 13, 2005 - 01:55 PM
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I believe when running the Goblins fouling is just like voting; Do early! Do Often! Laughing

Heck Canadian Open back in 2003 in the five games the lads fouled a record 40 times, got only called twice and won the first arguement! After that Da Maggot Scum have the notorious reputation of "Firm but Fair" referees at all their tournaments. Worship

Is it my fault I make sure my ref is always a halfling? Rolling Eyes

The amazing side effect in tournies is whenever by some fluke the referee ejects the wrong player in the foul (i.e. My "innocent lads" Mr. Green

) and get my coach ejected as well for some reason Da Maggot Scum suddenly start playing like gods. It's led to the largest blow-outs I've won in tournie history...this makes me wonder if I should just have the coach ejected to start the game on principle! Very Happy

Ryan - Feb 14, 2005 - 11:42 PM
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Lets See

With My Halflings When ever There's some one on the floor (Its one of the Few times a Fling can hurt ANYONE)

With My Humans: When ver I think I can get away with it

With My Amazons: They Never got a chance to Foul at the Blood Bowl as when ever they managed to get an armour roll they made it which was enough to get the play OOA for a turn at least (managed to send Lord Borak to the Dead and Injured box in my 5th game its nice what you can do with 3 Amazon Blitzers with Guard)

Tim - Feb 15, 2005 - 05:52 AM
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Everything what Ian said Wink

Pipey - Feb 16, 2005 - 04:49 AM
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Voted for the "fouling occasionally" option.

There are certain players I would definitely foul when they're down and the ref istn watching and would think about fouling even if he is watching (Gutter Runners, War Dancers - to name two).

Other than that I will only tend to foul if the opportunity presents itself i.e. i have a free lineman, there's a guy on the deck with a few tackle zones and the ref ist watching.

The other occasion when fouling is a good idea is if my ball carrier ends his turn standing next to a prone player.

I'm not sure fouling high AV targets is necessarily a good idea, at least without Dirty Player. The number of players you'll need to guarantee that the chance of injury outweighs the odds of getting sent off is likely to leave you out of position.

And as for fouling being unsporting. That's just guff Very Happy

! All 6 actions are part of the game - move, block, blitz, pass, foul, hand-off. I've even heard people say they don't like to crowd surf cos they think it's unsportsmanlike!! What is the world coming too Shocked

Ahmrik - Dec 31, 2005 - 01:11 PM
Post subject: Team Character

Hi,
If it's in my teams character then i will foul. If using my Norse or especially my Halflings then i will foul every time, regardless of the referee. It just seems apt.

-Danny-

Spazzfist - Jan 01, 2006 - 02:47 PM
Post subject: Re: Team Character

Ahmrik wrote:

Hi,
If it's in my teams character then i will foul. If using my Norse or especially my Halflings then i will foul every time, regardless of the referee. It just seems apt.

-Danny-

How is in the character of halflings to foul? Are they trying to eat the players while they are on the ground? Confused

KarlLagerbottom - Jan 01, 2006 - 05:10 PM
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Spazz-
It's 'cause they want some payback. If 'Flings are going to have sucess they need to play with an edge. Ever heard of the Halfling Hit Squad?

-Rob

Ryan - Jan 02, 2006 - 05:47 AM
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Quote:

How is in the character of halflings to foul? Are they trying to eat the players while they are on the ground?

As the man has said Ever heard of the Halfling Hit Squad.

If you read the side bar on the Halfling Team it states the whole team could block an Orge and not successed so when a Play is down the Flings would want to ensure that he stays down

grant85 - Mar 17, 2006 - 08:08 PM
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on FUMBB.com if u play against a 'flig team its assumed they will foul the crap out of your best players and even linos too if they can....its all about lowering the other teams plyer count and stealing their rr's to win and come out on top.