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North America - West Coast Blood Bowl Grand Prix: Official Rules

zootsuitjeff - Mar 04, 2011 - 01:44 PM
Post subject: West Coast Blood Bowl Grand Prix: Official Rules

To raise the level of competition and encourage travel between west coast North American Blood Bowl communities for tournaments, as well as to encourage additional tournaments to be held, I'm sponsoring a competition in 2011 for the best overall coach in western north american tournaments. These should be open, NAF sanctioned tournaments, one or two day with at least ten entrants to gain full points. These would include, but not limited to:

West Coast Quake, (Los Angeles, CA) Jan 15-16th
Rat City Rumble (Seattle, WA) Feb 26th
Aftershock (Los Angeles, CA) Spring?
Celesticon 3 (Redwood City, CA) Labor Day
Spike! Magazine Cup (Vancouver, BC) Sept 10-11th
Orcland Slaughter & Block Challenge (Oakland, CA) Fall?
Nuffle's Fault (Los Angeles, CA) Nov 11th

If you are planning or are aware of any other tournaments that qualify (NAF sanctioned, western North America), please let me know and I will add them to the list.

Scoring will be calculated Formula One Style, with probably 10 points for 1st place, 8 for 2nd place etc, and 1 point for anyone attending.
1st Place: 10 pt
2nd Place: 8 pt
3rd Place: 6 pt
4th Place: 5 pt
5th Place: 4 pt
6th Place: 3 pt
7th Place: 2 pt
8th Place or Lower: 1 pt

If a qualifying tournament has less than 10 entrants, the total points given for that tournament may be reduced accordingly.

I will be posting a list of current standings on TFF, the naf website, and other local BB league forums.

Prizes:

This year I'll be sponsoring the Grand Prix personally by giving a pro painted team to the best coach. In future years I would like there to be some additional schwag connected to the tournaments, such as a legacy trophy, a commemarative plaque, and a commemorative figure given away for attending either your first or second tourney in the circuit.

Please let me know if you have any questions or suggestions.

Thanks,

Zootsuitjeff, impresario of the West Coast Grand Prix

Rando - Mar 06, 2011 - 08:34 AM
Post subject: RE: West Coast Blood Bowl Grand Prix: Official Rules

I love this idea. It adds a whole dimension to the scene without having to change the way things are being run at all. Maybe we could get something similar going in the East.

Do you have a hard and fast geographical limit to the grand prix or is it west coast-ish?

Do you see any problem with someone playing in both an east and a west grand prix? I don't see that would be a problem. If someone is mobile to get in that much BB all over the continent Smile

Ryan

daloonieshaman - Mar 06, 2011 - 10:38 AM
Post subject: RE: West Coast Blood Bowl Grand Prix: Official Rules

Generally From Manitoba down to Texas, west
(Winnipeg to Houston)
*Manitoba, N/S Dekota, Nebraska, Kansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, California, Nevada, Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Utah, Wyoming, Montana, BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Alaska, Hawaii*

zootsuitjeff - Mar 07, 2011 - 01:58 AM
Post subject: RE: West Coast Blood Bowl Grand Prix: Official Rules

One of the ideas of the Grand Prix is to cross promote tourneys and encourage people to come play from outside of the area but encouraging a higher level of competition in the tournaments. So people from the midwest or east coast are welcome.

I'd probably be pretty lenient about including any tournaments on the western half of the continent, but I'd like to know about them before they actually happen...

Rando - Mar 07, 2011 - 09:47 AM
Post subject: RE: West Coast Blood Bowl Grand Prix: Official Rules

I think it's an outstanding idea. I think the limits laid out by daloonieshaman set up the east and west nicely. In fact it seems weird having a West grand prix and not an East grand prix! I'll start tracking the tally for the east side, we'll see what happens next!

Jeff, I won't add anything from the west. I see this as your show. I'll simply be doing the work on the East side. How does that sound to you?

zootsuitjeff - Mar 07, 2011 - 01:03 PM
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Cool, by all means go for it. Imitation is the greatest form of flattery. I figure the Midwest has an enviable tournament scene already, setting up the WCGP is just an attempt to encourage something like that out here.

generaljason - Mar 10, 2011 - 01:31 PM
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So basically you want to set up something along the lines of Hall of Heroes like GW Canada use to do when they were around for W40K or WFB - combined points for attending multiple events for an overall winner. And like what the ATP does to encourage attendance at T64 and Masters Events for the build-up to the US Open by adding more money for prizes the more you attend.

Of course there is no money here, but if it encourages more people to attend Western Canadian and Western U.S. Blood Bowl tournaments then I'm all for it.

Regarding criteria:
01. Eligibility should be reserved to Coaches who attend at least 2 of the events listed above.
02. The tournaments have to be open (pretty sure everything on the list above is) and NAF sanctioned.
03. I think the tournaments to be included into the Grand Prix should be at least a T5 tournament - ie. 16 players or more.
04. All the participating tournaments/clubs toss in some fund split equally for prize support when we crown the Grand Prix winner (or winners based on funds).

Just my thoughts.
Gj.

Notorious_jtb - Mar 21, 2011 - 07:52 AM
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I agree that this concept has merit.
I wouldn't want it to be too finacially motivated, I personnally think prizes should be about the glory rather than more tangible assets.

I have no problem with people promoting themselves or companies at tournaments but I don't want rewards to be significant enough to cause any conflict.

JTB

Lizardcore - Mar 21, 2011 - 03:10 PM
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+1 with JTB(itch) Wink

generaljason - Mar 23, 2011 - 10:55 AM
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generaljason wrote:

04. All the participating tournaments/clubs toss in some fund split equally for prize support when we crown the Grand Prix winner (or winners based on funds).

Notorious_jtb wrote:

I wouldn't want it to be too finacially motivated, I personnally think prizes should be about the glory rather than more tangible assets.

I have no problem with people promoting themselves or companies at tournaments but I don't want rewards to be significant enough to cause any conflict.

I never meant handing out money Joe. All I meant by "(or winners based on funds)" was instead of awarding a trophy for the Grand Prix winner you might award top 3 provided the Grand Prix fund had enough money to cover it. I agree that cash prizes are a BAD idea.

skars - Mar 29, 2011 - 10:08 PM
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Celesticon 3 Labor Day Weekend in Redwood City, CA more news to come

zootsuitjeff - Mar 30, 2011 - 12:49 AM
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skars wrote:

Celesticon 3 Labor Day Weekend in Redwood City, CA more news to come

Awesome to hear, I will add it.

DarkDancer17 - Apr 12, 2011 - 09:43 AM
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I know I often ask - but are there plans for a tourney at KublaCon this year?

zootsuitjeff - Apr 15, 2011 - 11:45 AM
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It would count if there was, but I'm not aware that anyone is planning it as of right now...

DarkDancer17 - Apr 28, 2011 - 02:33 PM
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I see a blurb about a "Street" Bowl game being played there - but no responses regarding rulesets etc, so it's hard to come from out of state with a team.

talarius - May 05, 2011 - 04:57 PM
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If you follow the links from the "Blood Bowl Kubla Cup - The Street II" game entry on the Kublacon website, full rules are provided (although they are dated from the 2010 KublaCup). It looks like the 2010 edition was NAF-approved. I hope 2011 will be as well. Smile

DarkDancer17 - May 08, 2011 - 09:28 AM
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talarius wrote:

Yeah, I tried contacting that email address as well - no response.

Ah well, I'll pack my minis and hope for the best!

zootsuitjeff - May 15, 2011 - 08:50 PM
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It looks like Kubla Cup is scheduled, I'll do my best to show up for this. I'm a bit confused, can streetbowl tournaments be NAF approved?

Jonny_P - May 15, 2011 - 09:22 PM
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zootsuitjeff wrote:

It looks like Kubla Cup is scheduled, I'll do my best to show up for this. I'm a bit confused, can streetbowl tournaments be NAF approved?

Much like other Blood Bowl variants, Streetbowl tournaments have been NAF approved in the past and I expect that to remain the same going forward.

zootsuitjeff - May 16, 2011 - 02:54 PM
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Well it sure would be nice if it gets approved, but I don't know the organizer...

Alkaline13 - May 19, 2011 - 12:38 AM
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Do you have any updates to standings? I'd love to see how the West and East are doing in their standings! We have a pretty good fight going on here in the MIDWEST! I created a thread here with a link to my point spreadsheet -- check it out

zootsuitjeff - Aug 09, 2011 - 08:44 PM
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Current standings can now be found at:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AltxjpTeSjz2dGNkcVR6N09zNzRHLXZjYTdEMy0tMEE&hl=en_US

Rando - Aug 09, 2011 - 09:14 PM
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67 total players over there, looks great!

zootsuitjeff - Aug 10, 2011 - 01:01 PM
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Here is a preview of one of the members of the Grand Prix:

http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/download/file.php?id=675&mode=view

generaljason - Aug 11, 2011 - 02:59 AM
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zootsuitjeff wrote:

Current standings can now be found at:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AltxjpTeSjz2dGNkcVR6N09zNzRHLXZjYTdEMy0tMEE&hl=en_US

Looks great Jeff! Good on for getting this going! Smile

zootsuitjeff - Aug 17, 2011 - 06:27 PM
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I've added Locations and dates to the standings spreadsheet to make your travel planning easier. There are still more than half the year's events to go, make your plans now!

generaljason - Aug 24, 2011 - 06:07 AM
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zootsuitjeff wrote:

Current standings can now be found at:

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AltxjpTeSjz2dGNkcVR6N09zNzRHLXZjYTdEMy0tMEE&hl=en_US

Are you giving all these tournaments the same rating, or is there a spread between an 8-man tourney, 16-man, 30-40 man, 50-70, 100 and over? To be honest it's much more impressive to win a 60-man tournament then it is to win a 12-man, and the points in the Grand Prix should reflect that I think.

2 cents.
Gj.

daloonieshaman - Aug 24, 2011 - 09:27 AM
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a win is a win GJ. Regarless of number of players events are judged on scores. With that said, if you based it on mumber of games to reach the win, now that is slightly different

zootsuitjeff - Aug 24, 2011 - 11:52 AM
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My motivation is to encourage players to attend as many separate events as possible, not necessarily the largest events or the most days etc. Attending and placing in a larger event should be a reward in itself, with greater prize support, etc. So the only limitation is that you need at least 10 participants in a tourney for it to count for full points as an event.

generaljason - Aug 25, 2011 - 05:28 AM
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Oh hey don't get me wrong Jeff I'm not dissing it, I love the Grand Prix idea and completely understand the rationale behind it is to encourage more tournaments and more participation. I'm just trying to throw ideas out there and expand the Prix as it's still in it's first year.

Thunderkrunch was a 1-day 14-man tournament by the end of the day that we ran this June. Rat City Rumble was a 1-day 32-man tournament in Seattle that RCR ran this year. I would completely understand why Murray would earn more points in the Prix for winning RCR than Andy winning TK. I also know that both of those guys would agree with me and neither would be offended if one tournament ranked higher than the other because one was clearly a deeper pool of coaches than the other.

It's not because one was better by being bigger, but again winning a 176 man Blood Bowl shouldn't be the same as winning a 14 man Thunderkrunch if the points are to mean anything. If the points of the Prix are strictly to encourage participation than the only stat that's relevant at the end of the day is the # of tournaments you played in then.

And setting up different scoring criteria for # of coaches doesn't take away for cross participation at all which is the original intent of the Prix, nor does it only encourage players to travel to larger tournaments: all is does in my honest opinion is further encourage individual TOs to try and push their T-10 tournament to a T-16 next year, and then a T-20/30, T-40/50, T-60/70 and so on. Meant to help the Prix not hurt it.

This is exactly how Golf and Tennis rankings are formed. A Major, or T-128 tournament in tennis has more ATP rankings then a Masters Series T-64 tournament, but a Masters has more rankings than a smaller T-32. I understand that more games are being played the larger it gets as tennis tournaments are knock out by nature whereas our # of games are fixed depending on preference and number of days and not number of coaches, but I think the analogy still applies.

Anyway those are just my thoughts. Again great job setting this up Jeff and hope to see you back at the Spike! one of these years. I'll definitely see you at the NAFWC in Amsterdam - looking forward to it!

Sincerely,
Craig.

Rando - Aug 25, 2011 - 12:46 PM
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I'm always into a sharing of ideas!

The fact that such rankings have become a part of the N.A. scene is exciting, but I'd rather see any system in place than no system in place. I'm also really interested to see how things are after a few years of these systems being active and what tweaks take place.

Alkaline and the Zlurpee guys are running this F1 style ranking Jeff created on their forums with the exception that they give a higher ranking to their three majors, the zlurpee, the chaos cup, and one other, regardless of attendance.

Your NAF ranking gives you a sort of standing as well, and if there was another more intense ranking as Jason and/or Daloonieshaman describe you would simply have another means to assess your standings. While such a ranking may give a better representation of the degree of competition you faced on your way to the top it may not if the pool is filled with suckers. I feel as though the number of people who would value such a system is smaller than the number of people who value this F1 style participation emphasized system since you may just be gambling on the notion that a bigger tournament includes better players.

I can't wait to see how N.A. does at the world cup, have a good one! Watch out for France, those guys don't seem to be looking at the same pitch that I am.

Ryan

zootsuitjeff - Aug 26, 2011 - 02:26 PM
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Yeah I wouldn't say the way I set it up is the only way that it could be set up or that it is perfect, it just is how I decided to set it up for this year. Like I've said, my goal is to encourage people to attend as many tourneys as possible, especially the smaller ones. I wouldn't want someone to win who did well in "the big tourneys" and could safely ignore smaller ones along the way... But I'm open to different rule systems in the future, whatever encourages people to participate and travel to tourneys...

daloonieshaman - Aug 26, 2011 - 03:36 PM
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Next year give double points for small events. regualr points for 2 dayers and .5 points for Majors
GJ zip it and listen Laughing

Players that are traveling to Majors are going for about a million reason with $1000s in funding (How many players can do that do not live within a few hour drive) (GJ, a vast majority of Spike players are from Washington/BC you get others but small amounts) (Same with the Chaos Cup)
Long runner non majors (Zlurp, Quake, ect) Get a bunch of the member from within 6 hour drive and require travelers $500-$1000 investment
Local one day events are just that.
The opertunity to have a league run an event and bring players of all skill sets. The more spread out local events you have with A champion attending (Say I went to a Major, Quake and 6 local events) would the 6 locals be in my back yard. No you cannot sustain that replay it waters down the Peso.

IF I go to a local ($100 invested) in San Deigo, Vegas, Pasadena, Riverside, Los Angeles, Oakland, San (Whatever where kubbla con is) I am making the effort to go to different League Regional areas to support them and to draw in possibly new players as they see awesomeneess like myself and have them ask who is that guy (those players)I have not seen them around here. They drove down here just to play. You guys must have an awesome game.

It also is suppose to suppport regional re-support with a couple players from your group going to one or more of the other regional's group event

The moral here is the higher the "Statis ladder" The event is: Major/NAtional/ then local the less value it has
So remember
LOCAL 1 DAY EVENT HIGHEST VALUE!!!!
SPIKE/CHAOS CUP/QUAKE/ZLURPEE little value

generaljason - Aug 26, 2011 - 05:37 PM
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Honestly Dennis if I'm going to a smaller event it's because I want to go to it. Prix or NAF points having absolutely nothing to do with my decision to travel.

daloonieshaman - Aug 26, 2011 - 07:39 PM
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There is zero bearing for a "larger" event to have any more bearing.