NAF World Headquarters :: View topic - Lizardman team tactics...

NAF World Headquarters

Strategy and Tactics - Lizardman team tactics...

dlb1969 - Feb 18, 2003 - 08:20 AM
Post subject: Lizardman team tactics...

Anyone have any good lizzie team tactics?

Dave

Dave - Feb 18, 2003 - 04:16 PM
Post subject:

Never played them but I guess:

Kick some @$$ with the saurus

Get the ball with a skink.

Protect him with the rest and get in to score.

Allways get at least one skink in a scoring position. If you manage to free the ball, you got a TD

Ask Marcus, he won some tournies with them

dave (hihi)

Cervidal - Feb 18, 2003 - 05:23 PM
Post subject:

Start the team with as many Sauruses and rerolls as possible.

On your first set of doubles, take Sure Hands. On your second set of doubles, take Sure Hands.

NEVER use a skink in a hitting game unless the skink is the blitzer or the skink will have anyone in his tackle zone pushed away by turn's end.

skummy - Feb 19, 2003 - 07:28 AM
Post subject:

Break Tackle is a highly important skill for a saurus to get. They need the to be able to get out of tackle zones on a blitz and open holes for the Skinks.

Marcus - Feb 19, 2003 - 11:09 AM
Post subject:

Dave wrote:

Ask Marcus, he won some tournies with them

Heh, no he didn't, Marcus posted his worst ever tournament result with Lizardmen at the Dutch Open

What I think you meant to say is "Marcus won some at a tourney" Wink

skummy - Feb 19, 2003 - 11:45 AM
Post subject:

What went wrong?

Squiggoth - Feb 19, 2003 - 11:59 AM
Post subject:

Perhaps his cheerleaders croaked? Razz

skummy - Feb 19, 2003 - 12:07 PM
Post subject:

<groan>

Anytime I hear about a lizardman team falling short, I assume it's because they rolled poorly when blocking or ballhandling. If they roll well, they're nearly unstoppable.

Dave - Feb 19, 2003 - 12:10 PM
Post subject:

OK marcus that's true.

I saw you lose with them.

Bad dice rolls indeed Wink

Spiky - Feb 19, 2003 - 01:04 PM
Post subject:

Hi All,

I'm just started out with Lizards, and found that a line up of 6 Saurus, 5 Skinks and a human thrower seems to suit my game. I think I have FF 3 and 2 rerolls....

Break Tackle is Definately a skill I'd choose for the Saurus - I lost one of mine in the first game I played as it took a pounding from a treeman. Low agility meant there was no way for me to avoid it once I was stuck in the treeman's tackle zone.

skummy - Feb 19, 2003 - 01:20 PM
Post subject:

Can I ask how you're getting a human thrower on a lizardman team?

ZanzerTem - Feb 19, 2003 - 11:12 PM
Post subject:

Spiky wrote:

I'm just started out with Lizards, and found that a line up of 6 Saurus, 5 Skinks and a human thrower seems to suit my game.

Sputnik - Feb 20, 2003 - 01:55 AM
Post subject:

Quote:

Can I ask how you're getting a human thrower on a lizardman team?

When I first saw someone fielding a lizzard team he had a high elf thrower in his backflied. Evil or Very Mad

[where ist that vormitting emoticon, admin??]

This was waaay back and based on the ally table of BB mag 1 (or so I think. Might as well have been 4th ed. gold) when Lizzards could have human or high elf allies.

Those were times when a horde of four skinks in your backfield with catch/sprint/sidestep was pretty hard to defend...and Lizzies had a passing game as long as the elf was untouched. Tough.

Now you mind having too many of those skinks on your roster and a therefore a lack of Sure hands or Block instead...even kick is out of reach! Crying or Very sad

Sputnik

Squiggoth - Feb 20, 2003 - 04:54 AM
Post subject:

Allies stink, they should never have come up with that stupid idea; IMHO it's just an easy way of dealing with your team's weaknesses.

Martijn

dlb1969 - Feb 20, 2003 - 08:10 AM
Post subject: Spiky...

Spiky wrote:

FF3 is way too low for me. I play in a league and money is an all important factor. If you don't make money you end up on the losing end in the long run. I don't start teams with less than 6 FF and that is an absolute low for me. I usually tend to work it out to have at least 8 most of the time, but my current lizzie team started with only 6.
I took 5 saurus, 7 skinks, 2 RR, and 6 FF.

dlb1969 - Feb 20, 2003 - 08:13 AM
Post subject: Squiggoth...allies

Squiggoth wrote:

Allies stink, they should never have come up with that stupid idea; IMHO it's just an easy way of dealing with your team's weaknesses.

Martijn

Man, do I ever agree. I wish I could get the players in my league to see that, but it ain't happening. We have made our own ally rules that are pretty balanced. The allies can't use team RR and pick up a racial characteristic called "Outcast". Basically you have to roll 3+ to get the guy on the field to play for every drive.

Spiky - Feb 20, 2003 - 02:55 PM
Post subject:

I might be getting things wrong by the sounds of it.... Shocked

So are Allies allowed or not? Is the stuff printed in the BB magazines not 'official' as such?
There were ally rules in BBmag 1 which were revised in BB mag 2 and I haven't seen anywhere that importing a Human thrower into a lizardman team is 'Illegal'
Please could someone set me straight on this?
Thanks! Smile

ZanzerTem - Feb 20, 2003 - 03:10 PM
Post subject:

BB Magazine stuff is just experimental trash that GW comes up with. The only "official" stuff is in the LRB 2.0.

Consider BB Mag stuff GW encouraged "house rules". Thats it.

It's not illegal if your commish allows it, but if he allows the BBMag allies, he is a bad commish. The majority of the BB Mag stuff needs to be changed in order to be balanced. Just look at the ogres in BB# 6 Razz

Marcus - Feb 20, 2003 - 03:59 PM
Post subject:

skummy wrote:

What went wrong?

Not the best of dice, coupled with some world class opposition.

They're not my best team, by a long shot. I can play them but I don't really have the chops. They're not as good a team as people make out, I think you'll find it's generally the coach that makes the difference.

Speaking of top coaches - Sputnik's certainly your man for Lizard tactics. Although it has to be said he was lucky against my Skaven Wink

Max_Horseman - Feb 21, 2003 - 02:26 AM
Post subject:

Marcus,

Can I use that excuse for my game against Sputnik as well ??? Crying or Very sad

Max

Dave - Feb 21, 2003 - 12:26 PM
Post subject:

Marcus wrote:

Not the best of dice, coupled with some world class opposition.

Except for your first round match against Wouter...

You got sixes twice to grab a scattering ball with a saurus.

Nt the best of dice .. (grumble grumble) Wink

Thadrin - Feb 23, 2003 - 02:38 AM
Post subject:

FF is NOT all imprtant, especially for a relatively expensive team like Lizards.
I started 5 Saurus/6skinks/2 reroll/6FF/Apo on FUMBBL. I won my first game 3-0.
I'm in deep crap now though - I had one saurus killed and one MNG (-1MA). 3 saurus 7 skinks to play the next game because I couldn't afford to replace the Saurus that croaked.

Gotta love that MA8 though Smile

As someone who's usual team is dwarfs its a joy to behold.

Make a hole with the big fellas, send a lot of little fast dodgy fellas through.

Grumbledook - Feb 23, 2003 - 04:57 AM
Post subject:

FF is all important then, if it had been higher you could have replaced him, or even had more players in the first place so that it would have been harder to block your players to get them killed ;]

ZanzerTem - Feb 23, 2003 - 11:37 AM
Post subject:

I have to agree with grumble. Especially since on FUMBBL you tend to lose FF faster then you gain it Rolling Eyes

Thadrin - Feb 23, 2003 - 04:34 PM
Post subject:

BUt without the Apo I would have lost the OTHER player who was killed in the game, without the reroll I would probably have lost and without any of those players I'm compromising the line up.

I'm still a firm proponent of "Buy what your team needs and the use the rest on FF."

Dave - Feb 24, 2003 - 04:15 PM
Post subject:

I like high FF, usually take 7+

Apedog - Feb 25, 2003 - 10:13 AM
Post subject:

With expensive players high FF is more important, you need more money to buy the players!

Also taking the low FF is more risky, if one of your players dies in the first couple of games you may have trouble recovering.

Shame it took me ages to realise this Embarassed

Aristodeimos - Feb 25, 2003 - 11:16 AM
Post subject:

If you play Lizardmen, I've got two words for you...Break Tackle. The only way a saurus can support skinks is to be able to dodge away. Not to mention, unless you like having to blitz with your skinks all the time, it's too easy to pin down a saurus without this skill.

ZanzerTem - Feb 25, 2003 - 12:39 PM
Post subject:

Unfortunately, because it is so hard for bashing players to get SPP's, most choose either Block, Mighty Blow, Pile On, or Tackle to increase the number of knockdowns, or increase the chance to break armor, in order to get more SPP's. Break Tackle isnt always a viable choice for Saurus'

skummy - Feb 25, 2003 - 01:25 PM
Post subject:

I consider Break Tackle on a Lizardman team like Guard on a Dwarf team. It's going to help you win and it will get you more SPP's for other players down the road. After seeing how most good coaches lock up lizardmen and start seeking and destroying skinks, it is the only skill I'd take for my first two saurii.

ZanzerTem - Feb 25, 2003 - 01:30 PM
Post subject:

Hmm, perhaps I should re-evaluate my lizardman team.....

Indigo - Feb 26, 2003 - 07:20 AM
Post subject:

what skills should skinks have then? I always find it hard choosing skills for them as I know they are going to die!

I usually give the very first one sure hands, but after that...?

skummy - Feb 26, 2003 - 07:36 AM
Post subject:

Ah - you have to roll doubles to get Sure Hands. Usually I see them become specialists. The first one to roll doubles gets Sure Hands. Catch, Sure Feet and Sidestep are handed out quite frequently. The second doubles is usually Block, but should probably be Sure Hands again. Ball handling is a real weakness for the Lizards, and these skills make their beakaway players that much better.

Sputnik - Feb 26, 2003 - 07:46 AM
Post subject:

Quote:

I usually give the very first one sure hands, but after that...?

hmm, sure hands is a general skill and skinks only have access to agility skills.

And choosing skills depends on how you play your team.

I like catch and sure feet for I tend to work more with handoffs. Laughing

Sidestep is also nice to move your skink in a position from where it is easier to doge away. And you can get assists next to the side line. What I want to try next is a passblocking skink. Yes, you still need a 6 to intercept but you may put tackle zones to the thrower or catcher to make it a bit harder.

What you hope for are doubles. And lots of them. Sure hands comes in handy ( Laughing

), block is always a good choise and my skink with sidestep and guard has more players hating him than fans. Oh, just as a side note: he was the most punished player in my team last season and the apo is one of his best friends. It's like painting a mini in neon pink. People will try to get rid of him immediately to remove him out of sight. Crying or Very sad

If you know how to deal with kick go for it. Maybe before sure hands since you have team rr which help you picking up the ball (yes, Max, I know that a Norse blitzer is better in this respect). But team rr don't help you placing the ball in nasty spots. It is worth TDs the easy way. Laughing

A bit of dodging, a bit ball handling in a tackle zone, a bit of GFI and there you are. Laughing

What you pray for is AG+1. Believe me, it's a different offence afterwards.

Sputnik

skummy - Feb 26, 2003 - 07:52 AM
Post subject:

Sputnik: What you said about the +1 AG is entirely true. A lizzie team in our league won the dungeonbowl with a +1 AG Skink with Block and Leap.

I don't know why you would use a doubles roll on Pass Block, though. As you said, I'd use all of mine on Block and Sure Hands. If I was lucky enough to get three doubles, Kick would be on my dockett. I might just give it to the Kroxigor, though.

Sputnik - Feb 26, 2003 - 12:43 PM
Post subject:

Quote:

I don't know why you would use a doubles roll on Pass Block

ups, I didn't list that under doubles. Embarassed

I would like to see whether I can pressurize the thrower a bit more, at least for slow teams. My team already has a kicking skink and against slow teams it might be possible get get him in his backfield before he gets rid of the ball. It's possible to get a clear passing lane against only two skinks in your backfield but with passblock you would always have to fear a lucky interception. If you blitz this skink away-o.k. no pressure at the line!

So much for the theory, let's see if this works once I have a passblocking skink. Laughing

I

Sputnik

skummy - Feb 26, 2003 - 01:10 PM
Post subject:

Let me know how it goes. My theory has always been that Pass Block and Foul Apperance are only good in numbers. With the Lizzies, I'd rather take block or sure hands and make them a better all around player. I guess it helps that you can take catch easily enough after they get pass block.

Actually, a Block/Dodge, Sidestep, Diving Tackle Skink would be a pain to get rid of, especially since he could run through tackle zones to get on the ballcarrier.

BenArd - Apr 28, 2003 - 07:56 AM
Post subject:

I just started with a lizardman team and they are the league whipping boys at the moment. They've only played 4 games but i'm still looking for their first win and second TD.

They took a slapping off a norse team last time out and i managed to have 1 saurus and 2 skinks killed (including the one who i had just got sure hands for). in fact i had 2 dead and 3 badly hurt by the end of the second turn. which was nice.

BenArd - Apr 28, 2003 - 08:06 AM
Post subject:

Quote:

Sidestep is also nice to move your skink in a position from where it is easier to doge away

IMO this would be a bit of a wasted skill as my skinks don't usually tend to get pushed back very often (more beatin into the turf) and seing as they have stunty and can ignore tackle zones the dodging is a reasonably moot point.

snew - Apr 28, 2003 - 08:43 AM
Post subject:

Don't underestimate sidestep. It's a fantasticly annoying skill to your opponent. Even if you do go down, you get to choose the square. If you're lucky, you plug the holes he was going to use.

snew - Apr 28, 2003 - 08:54 AM
Post subject:

BloodbasherMasher wrote:

You said this like everyone is supposed to instinctively know it. If you remember back, BBMag1 stated empirically that is was the new official rule set and that BBMag2 kind of polished them a bit.

If someone fell out of the loop after those two mags, they may still be using them. Incidentally, Lizardmen in 4th ed rules had Skinks able to get General Skills as well as Elven Throwers. It was a completely different team back then.

skummy - Apr 28, 2003 - 09:08 AM
Post subject:

Um - Elven throwers can still get general skills, can't they?

snew - Apr 28, 2003 - 10:12 AM
Post subject:

skummy wrote:

Um - Elven throwers can still get general skills, can't they?

Of course. Did I word that awkwardly? I was saying Skinks got General skills and the team as a whole could an AG4 Elven Thrower. Sorry.

skummy - Apr 28, 2003 - 11:04 AM
Post subject:

Lizards could get Elven throwers in 4th ed?

I missed 4th entirely, and I'm very happy I did...

Agentrock - Apr 28, 2003 - 11:17 AM
Post subject:

Yeah, I think they had many, many allies going on or something...

Dave - Apr 28, 2003 - 12:36 PM
Post subject:

yes, and luckily we lost them again.

The new rules, if still little unballanced, are waaay better.

GalakStarscraper - Apr 28, 2003 - 12:45 PM
Post subject:

skummy wrote:

Lizards could get Elven throwers in 4th ed?

I missed 4th entirely, and I'm very happy I did...

My brother took 2nd out of 69 teams in the 1st season of the MBBL2 with a Lizardman team using the 4th edition rules.

6 Saurus
1 Kroxigor
1 Ogre
1 Human Blitzer Ally
1 High Elf Thrower Ally
6 Skinks

You had to love the misguided attempt that 4th edition was.

Galak

Dave - Apr 28, 2003 - 12:46 PM
Post subject:

Galak, now we're on it.

The new Allie rules. Delfs are defenitely off the CP roster ??

Tutenkharnage - Apr 28, 2003 - 03:37 PM
Post subject:

Dave wrote:

Galak, now we're on it.

The new Allie rules. Delfs are defenitely off the CP roster ??

Definitely off.

-Chet

GalakStarscraper - Apr 28, 2003 - 06:16 PM
Post subject:

Tutenkharnage wrote:

Dave wrote:

Galak, now we're on it.

The new Allie rules. Delfs are defenitely off the CP roster ??

Definitely off.

-Chet

What the big guy said.

Galak

I REALLY try to keep the following website as up to date as possible.

http://www.blood-bowl.net/GWTeams/RevisedGWRosters.html

Which address every rumour and current thought trend that I understand where the rules are going. I need to update the Necro team for the one in the Annual (as soon as I get the one Deathwing is throwing over the pond for me) ... but other than that the page is up to date.

Dave - Apr 29, 2003 - 12:57 PM
Post subject:

(as soon as I get the one Deathwing is throwing over the pond for me) ... [/quote]

Deathwing must be even stronger than he looked then... Laughing

snew - Apr 29, 2003 - 01:32 PM
Post subject:

He's strong alright. I can smell him all the way over here. Wink

Dave - Apr 29, 2003 - 02:28 PM
Post subject:

don't let him hear that..