NAF World Headquarters :: View topic - Chaos Dwarfs: What's Going On?

NAF World Headquarters

Strategy and Tactics - Chaos Dwarfs: What's Going On?

biggdork - Feb 12, 2003 - 06:26 PM
Post subject: Chaos Dwarfs: What's Going On?

Okay. What is the deal with chaos dwarfs? They are the worst looking miniatures EVER. Having never played with, or against, them, I have no idea how they perform on the pitch. I am assuming rather well seeing as the infamous TBBF Cuttlefish of Cthulhu (nice Gwar reference, BTW) seem to do alright for themselves. Is that what motivates coaches to use such utter piles of sculpting crap?!?! Is it because they are a good team? I need answers!

Did I mention the Chaos Dwarf miniatures repulse me?

Melifaxis - Feb 12, 2003 - 07:06 PM
Post subject:

I actually like them. The hats can be taken as a bit much, but they were fun to paint. They have also done well on the pitch thus far while I have been coaching them.

Colin - Feb 12, 2003 - 09:46 PM
Post subject:

The actual team is fairly good on the pitch, but you are right, they look horrible! They ARE the worst looking minis yet produced. The hats look rediculous and who ever heard of a Chaos Dwarf using a curling iron on his hair and beard!?!

I wish I had a digital camera and I would post some picts of the team I converted based on 2ed CDs, they look great! Cool

Darkson - Feb 12, 2003 - 10:40 PM
Post subject:

I played them in the REBBL Challenge PBeM league, and they did OK (but didn't suit my playing style, so retired them in the best possible way - by playing a huge team).

If I was ever to play them tabletop, I try to get my hands on old 2nd ed figures, and cnvert what I couldn't get (ie Bull Centaurs).

The fact I think they're a worse set of figures than even the fanatic plankman..., sorry, Treeman, says it all really.

AnthonyTBBF - Feb 12, 2003 - 11:06 PM
Post subject:

I saw someone who made Chaos Dwarves out of WFB Dwarf regiment sprues and Chaos Warrior heads, they looked pretty good.

Mestari - Feb 13, 2003 - 12:06 AM
Post subject:

AnthonyTBBF wrote:

I saw someone who made Chaos Dwarves out of WFB Dwarf regiment sprues and Chaos Warrior heads, they looked pretty good.

Wasn't that combination being sold in the US Mail Order or something?

Anyhow, what comes to the official miniatures, just cut off the hats - that should do it. Add in some additional converting and you should have an OK chaos dwarf team.

Squiggoth - Feb 13, 2003 - 02:10 AM
Post subject:

That mail order deal was on the net about a week after I made some sketches for Norse Chaos Dwarves and showed them around at Games Day Sad

Anyway, I really like the Chaos Dwarfs with their Babylonian hats and jewish-orthodox beards... They look like the bad guys from Jesus Christ Superstar Smile

Grumbledook - Feb 13, 2003 - 03:27 AM
Post subject:

I LOVE THE SILLY HATS

Leave my chaos dwarfs alone.

twist - Feb 13, 2003 - 03:32 AM
Post subject:

Awww, c'mon... Leave the evil dwarves alone.... At least they are all united in their bad fashion sense! Hey, the Cuttlefish even have a Minotaur with a 'silly hat'!!! Laughing

Squiggoth - Feb 13, 2003 - 03:46 AM
Post subject:

Silly hats rule!!!
Well, at least they rule the Zharr-Naggrund Ziggurat... Rolling Eyes

Darkson - Feb 13, 2003 - 11:31 AM
Post subject:

Big Hats?! No thanks. Proper mutant CD's any day (even if you can't take Physical attributes).

BlanchPrez - Feb 13, 2003 - 11:49 AM
Post subject:

Hey, for those of us that don't play Warhammer Fantasy Battle and only have a passing knowledge of the races there (mostly from White Dwarf mags), can someone point me to a place where I can find background information on the Chaos Dwarves? I know next to nothing about this race, and that's the main reason I've never played them.

Chris

Darkson - Feb 13, 2003 - 12:04 PM
Post subject:

BlanchPrez wrote:

They appeared, as if by magic, somewhere between 3rd and 4th (5th?) ed. WFB, causing the total loss, and lack of knowledge of, the true Chaos Dwarves from the Karaks overran by Chaos excursions Evil or Very Mad

. They wear silly hats to honour the god or something.

Oh, you wanted the proper fluff, sorry, don't now, don't care and hope they're written out soon (my personal opinion, you may differ, that's up to you).

BlanchPrez - Feb 13, 2003 - 12:13 PM
Post subject:

Darkson wrote:

causing the total loss, and lack of knowledge of, the true Chaos Dwarves from the Karaks overran by Chaos excursions.

Okay, now I'm confused... you make it sound as if there are two different groups/histories of Chaos Dwarves. Did GW just totally screw with the race at one point, as this sound, or what? Or should I just drop the whole thing? Shocked

Chris

Darkson - Feb 13, 2003 - 12:30 PM
Post subject:

Ok, being serious now.

When WFB was in it's 3rd ed. (when all the chaos stuff started to happen) the CD's were normal dwarfs who were overrun by chaos during one of the chaos expansions, when their Karaks were absorbed. These were the Chaos Dwarves, and the figures included all sorts of minor mutations. This was in WD's, early 100's. These Cd's were used n the 2nd ed game, using the same rules as the dwarf team, except they could also thave 2 mutants.

When the 4th (5th?) WFB was released the "mutant" CD's had disappeared, written out of the fluff (along with "good" centaurs, agile Slann and other races), to be replaced with the "big hat" CD's we see today. This change was reflected in 3rd ed. BB.

As an old time gamer (16+ years) this is one of the things that really bug me about GW, the constant re-writing of the fluff which mkes half of your mini collection obsolete Rolling Eyes

BlanchPrez - Feb 13, 2003 - 12:33 PM
Post subject:

Got it, that makes much more sense now! Yes, I agree, GW has a habbit of doing that. When they released WH40K 3rd Edition, they re-wrote a ton of fulff that caused lots of people's armys to become outdated and/or obsolete. Not a good practice in my opinion.

Thrudd - Feb 14, 2003 - 01:27 PM
Post subject:

They re-write it so you 'have' to buy new miniatures. It is all a part of The Man's business schemes.

ohiohuskies - Feb 14, 2003 - 07:35 PM
Post subject:

have to agree, they bring in new stuff and slowly move out the old stuff so you have to buy new mini's. Got told that when i worked there many moons ago. Confused

I found the CD team are cool to play with, with only the blunderbuss player on the pitch for the hobo's to chase...I had a 70% win ratio with them a long time ago... Very Happy

Melifaxis - Feb 14, 2003 - 08:48 PM
Post subject:

Who doesn't do that though?

Another glaring example D&D 3.5

lawquoter - Feb 15, 2003 - 05:46 PM
Post subject:

I just can't bring myself to buy those stupid hats. I guess they are down on the priority line for purchase, maybe hoping out hope for a change in style. But I guess I'll get them sooner or later. Wink

Colin - Feb 15, 2003 - 07:33 PM
Post subject:

No just convert your own, it's quite easy and looks much better. Just buy a plastic dwarf WH regiment box and a bunch of chaos warrior head sprues and replace the dwarf heads with the CW heads, add some chaos space marine shoulder pads if you don't want to make your own out of green stuff. Too easy.

Dragoonkin - Feb 16, 2003 - 11:07 PM
Post subject:

And now apparently it seems they've been written-out again, since you can now get their rules is in a quick little PDF from the GW site...like the Harlequins of 40k.

Squiggoth - Feb 17, 2003 - 02:36 AM
Post subject:

Nope, they're working on a Chaos Dwarf army book, and it'll be the first proper army book the little gits ever had - their last army book was a compilation of White Dwarf articles Smile

By the way, about their background, instead of being mini-chaos warriors (which is dull) they are now Evil Dwarfs (which is not so dull) who went East looking for gold and stuff and became influenced by Hashut (a lesser Chaos god who likes to manifest himself as a fiery winged bull - Gork knows why). That's about it...

Grotemuis - Feb 17, 2003 - 10:17 AM
Post subject:

http://www.zharr-naggrund.com/

has a lot of information about the best race around!

Darkson - Feb 17, 2003 - 01:54 PM
Post subject:

Grotemuis wrote:

http://www.zharr-naggrund.com/

has a lot of information about the best race around!

Fimir!?

smeborg - Feb 17, 2003 - 08:01 PM
Post subject:

Some of us actually like the miniatures (not forgetting the good old Hobgoblins, of course).

After a few games with the CDs, I discovered that the miniatures can annoy some coaches a lot! This can be quite a big advantage at the table.

I also like the playing style of the side. Well, if you like the miniatures and the style of a side, you should play them, shouldn't you? How well they perform is secondary, although I note that the CDs are currently the side with the highest average in the NAF ratings (early days yet, of course). I was a bit surprised, I thought it would be Undead.

Cheers

TiMuN - Feb 18, 2003 - 02:15 AM
Post subject:

Well, CD have always been my team, and the first 3rd edition minis i bought, so i give a thumbs up to those silly evil hats! Love it when that is the only thing you see in the line of screemage. Wink

Squiggoth - Feb 18, 2003 - 02:33 AM
Post subject:

That's the true spirit! Silly hats forever! (Altough I've snipped off the pointy top of Htaark the Unstoppable's hat - it's a bit too silly Wink

)

Grumbledook - Feb 18, 2003 - 07:27 AM
Post subject:

Well at spikey I played undead vs undead twice, so thats going to hurt the average than if you don't play each other. I also lost twice to some unbreakable armoured norse teams at the dutch open. Again that didn't help. ;]

dlb1969 - Feb 18, 2003 - 08:19 AM
Post subject: CHOAS DWARVES AND THOSE STUPID HATS...

I have always thought that this was the worst looking team in the game. The hats are just too stupid and no self-respecting dwarf, chaotic or not, would put that thing on his head. And they definitely would not take a curling iron to their beards.
I believe that chaos dwarves should be wearing their beard just like any other dwarf. I think they would look better if they had those big furry russian look hats with the pull down flap ears to keep warm. They would look pretty cool then. It would be much better than those goofy looking tall hats. There is one dwarf thunderer miniature for WHFB that has a hat with fur on the edges and that is close to what I'm thinking for chaos dwarves. I'm sure everyone that lives in a cold climate knows what kinds of hats I'm talking about.

Dave

SBG - Feb 19, 2003 - 08:39 AM
Post subject:

I for one, like them a lot ! Like it was said before in this post, they are fun to paint !

As for playing, our league just completed its second season and I won both Soup Bowls, our championship trophy !

Seven teams in our league : Dwarves, High Elves, Dark Elves, Humans, Orcs, Skavens and the dynasty of the Chaos dwarves !

Fred

Squiggoth - Feb 19, 2003 - 10:55 AM
Post subject:

Grumbledook wrote:

Did you have to play against Stefan perhaps (with the Norse in red, green and black)? I've played against his stupid Terminator-armoured vikings about a 20 times and managed about 2 casualties... With fouls! :blush:

And DLB1969 - Chaos Dwarfs don't live in cold areas - Zharr Naggrund is a volcanic area, and those big hats contain airconditioning systems Wink

dlb1969 - Feb 19, 2003 - 12:24 PM
Post subject:

Squiggoth wrote:

Grumbledook wrote:

Well, I guess that shows how much I pay attention to CDs. I just assumed due to those hats that they were supposed to emulate russian style dwarves and I guess just assumed that they lived in cold regions. Now that I think about it though, I do remember that they have magic items in WHFB related to fire and the like. Sorry about that, but the furry hats would still look better. I've never played against CDs in WHFB before, actually I don't know anyone that knows anyone that plays CDs in WHFB. Hell, I just met the first CD player for BB not a couple of months ago. Then I go to Fanaticon in Wisconsin and CD teams outnumbered all other teams in the whole tournament. I think it's the bull centaurs, but that's just me.

Dave

Squiggoth - Feb 19, 2003 - 01:08 PM
Post subject:

CD's are influenced by the ancient Babylonian, and Assyrian cultures. Hence the hats, beards and lammassu. But where did the Bull Centaurs come from?!?!? Krete??? Confused

Grumbledook - Feb 19, 2003 - 05:59 PM
Post subject:

no i played dave and max :/
i managed one ko against daves norse with my undead and i failed 3 of 4 regenerate rolls as well iirc ;]

Squiggoth - Feb 20, 2003 - 01:04 AM
Post subject:

So it seems al Norse players have a Concrete Skin mutation... Smile

Melifaxis - Feb 24, 2003 - 07:46 AM
Post subject:

dlb1969 wrote:

I think it's the bull centaurs, but that's just me.

Dave

I like the mini's and yes, the bull centaur is very cool.

snew - Feb 24, 2003 - 09:20 AM
Post subject:

Squiggoth wrote:

So it seems al Norse players have a Concrete Skin mutation... Smile

Well, if that's the case, you need to hit them with a jack-hammer when they're down.

ZanzerTem - Feb 24, 2003 - 11:22 AM
Post subject:

God I hate the Chaos Dwarves. Their mini's are terribly ugly, and those stupid hats! Ug. The only thing I like about those mini's are the tusks.

Bleh, down with Chaos Dwarves.

Squiggoth - Feb 25, 2003 - 03:30 AM
Post subject:

BloodbasherMasher wrote:

God I hate the Chaos Dwarves. Their mini's are terribly ugly, and those stupid hats! Ug. The only thing I like about those mini's are the tusks.

Bleh, down with Chaos Dwarves.

snotsngrots wrote:

Squiggoth wrote:

So it seems al Norse players have a Concrete Skin mutation... Smile

Well, if that's the case, you need to hit them with a jack-hammer when they're down.

I might try that tactic on BloodBasherMasher Twisted Evil

Apedog - Feb 25, 2003 - 10:09 AM
Post subject:

Squiggoth wrote:

CD's are influenced by the ancient Babylonian, and Assyrian cultures. Hence the hats, beards and lammassu. But where did the Bull Centaurs come from?!?!? Krete??? Confused

As far as I know the Bull Centaurs are just an old chaos troop type that GW decided to retain. They used to power the chaos war machines (Tenderiser, can't remember the other one).

Aristodeimos - Feb 25, 2003 - 11:00 AM
Post subject:

Squiggoth - The Bull Centaurs are the "blessed" royal guard and shock troops of the Chaos Dwarves. Their god is Hashut...a demonic bull god. Hashut has mutated the chaos dwarf body to more resemble his own.

I like both the old and new CD models. In fact, I usually mix them. I would be an advocate for allowing CDs to use physical mutations, but our league has found the team to be powerful enough already.

~Aristodeimos

ZanzerTem - Feb 25, 2003 - 12:54 PM
Post subject:

Squiggoth wrote:

BloodbasherMasher wrote:

God I hate the Chaos Dwarves. Their mini's are terribly ugly, and those stupid hats! Ug. The only thing I like about those mini's are the tusks.

Bleh, down with Chaos Dwarves.

snotsngrots wrote:

Squiggoth wrote:

So it seems al Norse players have a Concrete Skin mutation... Smile

Well, if that's the case, you need to hit them with a jack-hammer when they're down.

I might try that tactic on BloodBasherMasher Twisted Evil

Bring it. It still won't change the fact that the CD mini's are the ugliest, absolute worst mini's ever to be vomited onto the BB pitch. I have had oatmeal filled terds clinging to the inside of my toilet that look better then those mini's Evil or Very Mad

Melifaxis - Feb 25, 2003 - 01:08 PM
Post subject:

Aristodeimos wrote:

I agree. Physical mutations would be cool, and the chaos magic is there, but they are already a pretty well balanced team.

Perhaps less CD's (0-4?) and add a new type of CD (0-2?) that has physical instead of general skills?

ZanzerTem - Feb 25, 2003 - 01:11 PM
Post subject:

How bout 0-2 Madmen 3, 4, 2, 9 Frenzy, Thick Skull.......STR, PHY.....80K

skummy - Feb 25, 2003 - 01:23 PM
Post subject:

That would be extremely disgusting on the roster. The CD's are barely balanced now by the soft underbelly of 7 armor hobgoblins. Giving them 9 armor, 4 strength frenziers at 80 K a pop would be very wrong. Unless you take away their Bull Centaurs and make these guys alternates. I could see this as an alternate roster.

ZanzerTem - Feb 25, 2003 - 01:33 PM
Post subject:

How bout this then:

0-2 Madmen 3, 3, 2, 8 Frenzy, Thick Skull.......STR, PHY.....90K

Or this:

0-2 Madmen 3, 4, 2, 8 Frenzy, Thick Skull, Wild Animal.......STR, PHY.....100K

I have yet to see a Wild Animal that is not a Big Guy.....would be interesting indeed Smile

Squiggoth - Feb 26, 2003 - 07:13 AM
Post subject:

Melifaxis wrote:

Aristodeimos wrote:

Thanks for the info, but as I am one of those very rare people on this planet who actually own a copy of the 5th edition Chaos Dwarf Army Book (yeah, I really like them!) I already knew that info about Bull Centaurs Wink

That is also the reason why I shouldn't allow Chaos Dwarves to get phusical mutations (other than Fangs of Very Short Legs perhaps) as the idea of mutating Dawi Zharr has been dropped when they stopped being just tiny Chaos Warriors with beards and turned into Babylonian Bad Guys. That is because Dwarfs are resitant to magic a.k.a. mutations Smile

(I should be a scholar on this matter!!! Razz

)

Grotemuis - Feb 26, 2003 - 08:11 AM
Post subject:

Apedog wrote:

(Tenderiser, can't remember the other one).

whirlwind

Grotemuis - Feb 26, 2003 - 08:19 AM
Post subject:

[quote="Squiggoth"]
Thanks for the info, but as I am one of those very rare people on this planet who actually own a copy of the 5th edition Chaos Dwarf Army Book (yeah, I really like them!) I already knew that info about Bull Centaurs Wink

[quote="Squiggoth"]

I have it to. Redfang to (or was it sarcasm Wink

)

[quote="Squiggoth"]That is also the reason why I shouldn't allow Chaos Dwarves to get phusical mutations (other than Fangs of Very Short Legs perhaps) as the idea of mutating Dawi Zharr has been dropped when they stopped being just tiny Chaos Warriors with beards and turned into Babylonian Bad Guys. That is because Dwarfs are resitant to magic a.k.a. mutations Smile

(I should be a scholar on this matter!!! Razz

[quote="Squiggoth"]

There are not totally oblivious to mutation (bull centaurs, lammasu, sorcerors!), but it is a very slow proces. notice: the tusks. I would like to see physical abilities on chaos dwarfs, but also limited to a few mutations and one per chaos dwarf

Cervidal - Feb 26, 2003 - 08:55 AM
Post subject:

Someone on here mentioned a new CD WHFB book coming out.

Where did you hear this? Anything I have heard about the army for the last year and a half concludes that the army is the designers' least favorite and will be unlikely to see another update ever again.

Squiggoth - Feb 27, 2003 - 02:05 AM
Post subject:

There will be a new Army Book and it's called Engineers of Chaos Smile

Problem is, it's not really high on the Important Armies To Make list at GW HQ so don't hold your breath... Sad

Quote:

Grotemuis: There are not totally oblivious to mutation (bull centaurs, lammasu, sorcerors!), but it is a very slow proces. notice: the tusks. I would like to see physical abilities on chaos dwarfs, but also limited to a few mutations and one per chaos dwarf

Yeah, that's why I mentioned fangs, but Lammasu and Bull Centaurs are created over the course of ages and not just in one BB season (thank Hashut for that!). Bionic upgrades like a Mechanical Big Hand and Bionic Very Long Legs on the other hand seem only logical with Chaos Dwarfs (I'm gonna do the same with my Klan Skryre Skaven Team) 'cause if you look at things like Astragoth and the Death Rockets it seems they're quite advanced at the subject of technology...
There might be something to say for mutations after all Rolling Eyes

Martijn

Grotemuis - Feb 27, 2003 - 02:24 AM
Post subject:

You can picture the players getting more used to using their acquired mutations to more effect! Or filing down their tusks to razor sharp fangs!

They have mutations (introduced in the race over centuries of slow changes) only they must learn how to use them on the field. Here's where the physical skills come in!

Squiggoth - Feb 27, 2003 - 03:38 AM
Post subject:

Very Long Legs keeps haunting my mind Wink

No, I'd go for the Bionikz (same rules and effects as mutations only mechanical and without the options for tentacles)

Grotemuis - Feb 27, 2003 - 09:22 AM
Post subject:

galak has some rules for bioniks which he is going to publish in the bb mag. Just look on www.blood-bowl.net

Squiggoth - Feb 28, 2003 - 02:30 AM
Post subject:

Can you give a more precise link? All I can find is player profiles with bionic eyes and stuff like that, not the rules :blush:

Grotemuis - Feb 28, 2003 - 05:35 AM
Post subject:

http://www.blood-bowl.net/bodyshop.html

here you are

Squiggoth - Feb 28, 2003 - 06:26 AM
Post subject:

Thanks!

Somehow I get this mental image of Astragoth without his hammers... That would be 100,000 gp Rolling Eyes

Leapin' Chaos Dwarfs Razz

Grotemuis - Feb 28, 2003 - 07:42 AM
Post subject:

me first! but it's probably to easy for you to convert

ZanzerTem - Feb 28, 2003 - 09:26 AM
Post subject:

Squiggoth wrote:

same rules and effects as mutations only mechanical and without the options for tentacles

Why not tentacles? you could fire off a wire and grappling hook and wrap up your opponent.

Grotemuis - Mar 02, 2003 - 09:39 AM
Post subject:

a bit to much

GalakStarscraper - Mar 02, 2003 - 11:34 AM
Post subject:

Grotemuis wrote:

galak has some rules for bioniks which he is going to publish in the bb mag. Just look on C:\Net_Bloodbowl\bodyshop.html

The rules are well liked by my league and have been tested for two years and countless matches.

Whether Andy will print them or not will probably depend on my ability to come up with some good painted figs and images to include with the article.

Galak

Darkson - Mar 03, 2003 - 06:40 PM
Post subject:

Apedog wrote:

Squiggoth wrote:

CD's are influenced by the ancient Babylonian, and Assyrian cultures. Hence the hats, beards and lammassu. But where did the Bull Centaurs come from?!?!? Krete??? Confused

As far as I know the Bull Centaurs are just an old chaos troop type that GW decided to retain. They used to power the chaos war machines (Tenderiser, can't remember the other one).

The creatures that powered the Tenderiser and Whirlwind were BOAR centaurs, not Bull Centaurs.

Squiggoth - Mar 05, 2003 - 04:07 AM
Post subject:

Yeah, they changed that to bull centaurs in 4th Edition fantasy battle (but it's a shame they left the Tenderiser out of the new army Wink

)

Grotemuis - Mar 06, 2003 - 08:53 AM
Post subject:

not really it was an ugly model

Squiggoth - Apr 02, 2003 - 05:40 AM
Post subject:

Yup. And Dwarfs are ugly anyways. So it all fits!

Elan - Apr 08, 2003 - 05:04 AM
Post subject:

CDs are NOT ugly, just misunderstood. Ask their mothers.

Seriously, yes it is a really bad hat, but ... paint the hats in electrifyingly psychodelic colours and you get a great advantage - the other coach is so worried about sitting near you, he does not watch what the CD's are doing to his defence, or where that pesky little hobgoblin went with the ball. Twisted Evil

kjonesin - Apr 08, 2003 - 05:10 PM
Post subject:

i'm kind of honoured that someone would mention my Cuttlefish... and very pleased that someone got the Gwar reference... mwahahaha...

anyhow... why i played the Big Hats originally is because Rob (six_foot_dwarf) was talking about how the hats bugged him... and i was considering playing them anyway, so that pushed me over the edge and into the realm of Chaos (dwarves).

Squiggoth - Apr 09, 2003 - 03:36 AM
Post subject:

I'm converting the FB Chaos Dwarfs for my Blockers... Their hats have loads more freaky tiny detail on them than those BB Chaos Dwarfs hats. Expect headaches! Smile