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Doesy |
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Post subject: Skilltable für "stunty" Players
 Posted: Aug 07, 2003 - 10:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 6
Status: Offline
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Hi,
is there any reason, why stunty players cannot take general skills?
Im playing a Lizardmenteam and must role doubles to give my skinks sure hands!!!
It should be made possible for each player to take generalskills!!! |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject: Re: Skilltable für "stunty" Players
Posted: Aug 07, 2003 - 12:35 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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Doesy wrote: Hi,
is there any reason, why stunty players cannot take general skills?
Im playing a Lizardmenteam and must role doubles to give my skinks sure hands!!!
It should be made possible for each player to take generalskills!!!
Its called Game Balance. If the Skinks had access to general skills they would be too good. They continue to be a very successful team in leagues and tournaments with Gen skills. Stunties only having AG access is part of the challenge of playing the teams ... you don't want everything to be easy right? You already have access to 7 ST 4+ players ... that's pretty darn impressive by itself.
Galak |
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Doesy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 08, 2003 - 05:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 6
Status: Offline
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hm, at skills like block, tackle and strip ball i agree!
but skills like sure hands and pro must be aviable for skinks.
where ist the gamebalance for skaven ghutter runner?
they can take general, agility and physicalskills!
and dwarvenrunner with the passingskill?
the general table must be aviable for every player!!
modifie skills like block, strip ball and tackle; only player with strength of 3+ can learn this skill! |
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AnthonyTBBF |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 08, 2003 - 05:52 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
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Doesy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 08, 2003 - 12:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 24, 2003
Posts: 6
Status: Offline
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stunty is nice, but has also two disadvantages that adjust it.
so i think why one should not permit thus generalskill the entrance to all players (under certain scraped off on my account with suitable skills) |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 08, 2003 - 01:35 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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Doesy wrote: stunty is nice, but has also two disadvantages that adjust it.
so i think why one should not permit thus generalskill the entrance to all players (under certain scraped off on my account with suitable skills)
Because its easier to say that Stunty players don't have access to General skills than trying to rewrite all the General skills you don't want them to get to say "requires ST 3 or more to take this skill"
Actually Lizardmen do just fine without the upgrades and Goblins and Halfling teams are supposed to suck.
Galak |
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The_Captain |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 05:32 AM
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Joined: Aug 20, 2003
Posts: 5
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I've been wondering this myself - would it really make Skinks too powerful if they got, say, Block or Strip ball, without rolling doubles? They've still only got ST2, which means they're not very good at hitting stuff (getting the required two assists for the block means two boys away from other action), and with some Wood elf teams going around here with every man and tree armed with the Block skill means they'll pound the poor lizards to the ground. The only real effect banning general skills from the stunties is the fact that they can never have Frenzy (what a loss!), Leader (which is especially needed for those Big guys around the stunties) or Nerves of steel (and they're not going to pass the ball anyway).
It's the sure hands skill (and stand firm, but that's another story) I'd like to have in the agility skill list, and I'd be happy. I play with elves, and picking up the ball is hard enough for them - now, changing to Lizardmen next season, I'm in deep trouble... (It's not throwing long bombs with unskilled line-elves; it's not intercepting in three tackle zones; it's not taking one-dice blocks against blodge opponents with unskilled line-elves - it's picking up the ball that's the most difficult action in the game!) |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 20, 2003 - 05:35 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
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The_Captain wrote: would it really make Skinks too powerful if they got, say, Block or Strip ball, without rolling doubles?
Yes, because Stunty means they can get anywhere and 1/2 dice blocks aren't as bad as you think - if you've got Block. On top of which they can get +ST or Dauntless to make it 1 dice blocks. One of the scariest things you'll ever play against is a Dauntless Horns Gutter Runner.
Lizards are a good team at the moment, so they don't need the boost. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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The_Captain |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 21, 2003 - 02:19 AM
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Joined: Aug 20, 2003
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Doubleskulls wrote: The_Captain wrote: would it really make Skinks too powerful if they got, say, Block or Strip ball, without rolling doubles?
Yes, because Stunty means they can get anywhere and 1/2 dice blocks aren't as bad as you think - if you've got Block. On top of which they can get +ST or Dauntless to make it 1 dice blocks. One of the scariest things you'll ever play against is a Dauntless Horns Gutter Runner.
Agreed, but so can wardancers get anywhere just as easily, with their Leap - and they've got Block and ST3 as standard. (I know those gutter runners, they're a pain.)
Besides, against Dwarfs or other teams strong in the Tackle field, Skinks are going to be in trouble dodging anywhere. With AG3 dodging is hazardous even with the skill, and being an AV7 stunty, you don't want to fall.
Quote: Lizards are a good team at the moment, so they don't need the boost. Didn't disagree with that - except for the sure hands part of it. (Most throwers and Dwarf runners have it anyway, so they don't need the chance to pick it as a general skill, whereas too many stunties have to use their valuable re-rolls just to pick up the ball. Sure feet is an Agility skill, why not Sure hands?)
By the way - ever thought of a Stunty player with the Guard skill? One of those to give the assist in the opponent's cage, and blitz with another stunty. Still, there's nothing to prevent this "unbalancing" combination (except that those Stunties still need the doubles to get Guard - although IMO it's a pretty good investment of doubles. Those Saurus guys aren't going to leap into the cage to strip the ball...) |
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lackey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 21, 2003 - 04:37 AM
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Joined: Jul 04, 2003
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The_Captain wrote: Agreed, but so can wardancers get anywhere just as easily, with their Leap - and they've got Block and ST3 as standard. (I know those gutter runners, they're a pain.)
But WE can only have 2 wardancers, lizards can have 12 skinks, each at 1/2 the price of a wardancer. The WE pay for the privelige of getting these few flash players, lizards do not.
Quote: Besides, against Dwarfs or other teams strong in the Tackle field, Skinks are going to be in trouble dodging anywhere. With AG3 dodging is hazardous even with the skill, and being an AV7 stunty, you don't want to fall.
Except that skinks have MA 8, so they can generally run round the problem.
Half the team are perfect, cheap, catchers, a situation I would love to have as a WE player. In addition the LOS is made up of 6 ST4 blockers, which few hitty teams can match. All they need to be a perfect team is a decent thrower/ball handler. Easy access to sure hands would go a long way towards this, which would make the team far too good IMHO. |
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Indigo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 21, 2003 - 04:52 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
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| great first post lackey, sums it up nicely - with decent ballhandlers/throwers lizards become an awesome force... |
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The_Captain |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 22, 2003 - 05:34 AM
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Joined: Aug 20, 2003
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...And you're going to throw with what? AG3 stunty player makes a quick pass with 4+! You sure you'd try that? Sure hands is only a "free" re-roll you can use to pick up the ball, and some protection against strippers. I've seen those AG3 fellows fumbling with the ball for four rounds without re-rolls. (Well, I've seen elves WITH re-rolls doing the same, but then again, our elf players are the unluckiest bastards in the Warhammer world).
I don't need any more power to my teams - I just take pity on those teams who are not elves.
Plus: not all stunty teams are Lizardmen. Halflings and Goblins fight with the same problem - picking up the ball. They don't even possess the speed to make effective hand-offs, and virtually the only way to score TD's is an ogre throwing one of them with the ball.
And to lackey: You haven't seen e.g. Mestari's solid Chaos Dwarf defence, have you? There's no running around it. |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 22, 2003 - 07:00 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
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The_Captain wrote: And to lackey: You haven't seen e.g. Mestari's solid Chaos Dwarf defence, have you? There's no running around it.
Why run around when you've got plenty of S4 players?
You have to come up with a convincing argument as to why the Lizardman team needs improving. IMO its fine at the moment so doesn't need the substantial boost general skill access for skinks would give it. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Dragonbait |
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Post subject:
Posted: Sep 24, 2003 - 05:03 PM
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Joined: Aug 13, 2003
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Playing Lizard's right now in a league of EVERY team except for humans. I'm 5/0 right now, with one tie to an amazon player I've played dozens of times so we know each others strengths.
The skinks are VERY powerful as is. Picking up the ball on a 3+ isn't that big of a deal, plus you are just as likely to get a +1 to an ability when you give them a star player roll, as you are to roll doubles.
all it takes is one +1 AG skink, and you're cooking. Give another catch to hand off to, and you can score pretty much anytime you want at your leisure.
Who cares about a line of "undefeatable" chaos dwarves with interlocking tackle zones when you have 7 strength 4+ guys who can knock a little pointy-hat over without effort? Just takes one hole, and at the WORST, a 3+ dodge to flood the backfield with skinks.
Plus, remeber, if you make one pass at 4+, you can score from your endzone with 3 goforit rolls(or less).  |
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kalten |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 17, 2003 - 07:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 13, 2003
Posts: 81
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Well put dragon, even with all those tackle zone from hardend dwarves the little guys still don't get modifiers to the dodge rolls so they always dodge on that 3+, with M8 thats AWESOME! Oh for a halfling with M8.... (I can dream, cant I?)
Leave the Lizards as they are - IMO they rock. (and as a note - look out all you tourney players, my Lizard team will make an entrance at some point in the next year or so - and they will rock your world!) |
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