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Mestari |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 30, 2003 - 04:04 PM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 407
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| The dwarves really should've been allowed to keep them, but it's too late for that. |
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Teemu Tokola aka Mestari
Member #52
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GColeman76 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 01, 2003 - 11:41 AM
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Joined: Apr 01, 2003
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Posts: 76
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
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Of all of them I think Dwarves were the least of those deserving them!!
And the cunning greenskins the most deserving! |
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High Elves or Chaos Dwarves?
High Elves, it has to be High Elves
I think.............
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zeuzism |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 12:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 06, 2003
Posts: 42
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| I play Dwarves, and although I bought the Ogre, I think he does not belong there, with hindsight I wouldn't buy him again, Dwarves kill ogres, they dont field them. And sure, they don't need ogres, they need "Get the Ref"! |
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Elan |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 01:56 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Australia
Posts: 120
Location: Australia
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Not being as "obsessive" (someone else used the word) and not being on the inside of rules debates, I was hesitant about commenting but ... here is a bleat from a newb!
I LIKED having an Ogre big guy in my Orc Team! While I agree that bonehead needs a bit of work - perhaps failing to place another team member (a goblin?) beside the Ogre would increase the chance of inaction - I really think removal from the Orc and Goblin allies is an overreaction by players who just don't like facing a reasonably effective big guy.
While I agree that the "fluff" is important, I have not seen anything that said that one of the oldest combinations around was unbalancing the game. I am a relative newb to the game and loved my first and favourite team as it was - why tinker? If it aint broke ....
One other point that may be worth considering - what will GW think about designing and producing new figures in future if BBRC makes them unusable in competitions? From a purely $$$ perspective this will reduce sales and they may become hesitant in producing new models. We now have new vamps and new ogres that comp players may not buy ...
Despite having real issues with GW over pricing and availability (BB is not supported by GW Australia and I usually buy through E-Bay and US Mail Order) I think that commerical reality may need to be considered if you want GW to continue to produce new figures - and a lot of the old ones could do with replacement!
Obviously, I will just get on with the game at this point, and I even like most of the changes, but I wanted to register another dissenting voice in the wilderness. That was my two cents worth - all responses welcomed. Interesting abuse noted and retained for later use.  |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 02, 2003 - 02:34 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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Elan wrote: I have not seen anything that said that one of the oldest combinations around was unbalancing the game.
The reason you haven't seen it here is because i've posted about it 1000 times before and i think people are just as tired of hearing it as i am of saying it. It was unbalancing, no need to say more here. |
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coachblacknife |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 04:10 AM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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Hmm, odd that a minority of coaches can contact the BBRC and the decision affects the majority...
Ogres on the Orc team are only a problem when the one-turn TD comes up. As the Troll is still there, that particular problem remains. Solution? Remove the Goblins (cheap assists, easy fouls, one-turn possibilities) in some way - either from the roster, or through a characterful rule.
In the latter case, something like "But I was 'ungry" - roll a D5 for each Troll/Black Orc on the team before setting up. For every '1', a Goblin is eaten and removed from the team.
That's character for you 
-Andy- |
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-Andy-
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"Changes made for changes' sake, does not make the changes great."
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Elan |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 04:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Australia
Posts: 120
Location: Australia
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I vote for:
"But I was 'ungry"
I have seen me ladz at work!  |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 04:59 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
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coachblacknife wrote: Hmm, odd that a minority of coaches can contact the BBRC and the decision affects the majority...
There is nothing to stop you or anyone else emailing Fanatic with your views. Andy Hall is generally quite good at responding.
If you want to contact Chet or Neo they both post here so you can always PM them.
coachblacknife wrote: Ogres on the Orc team are only a problem when the one-turn TD comes up. As the Troll is still there, that particular problem remains.
But is significantly weaker. The extra roll for the Big Guy (which results in a turnover too) means your TTM success rate drops. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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noodle1978uk |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 07:43 AM
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Joined: Jun 09, 2003
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We've had ogres in orc teams for years. Thousands of games, and never noticed a problem...
I don't think its "unbalancing" - obviously - because there is no evidence the way our league is run!!
It seems a bit odd that Ogres wouldn't play for orcs - that the change has been made in the name of "balance"
Next we'll have elves with AG3 because AG4 is "unbalanced" or maybe all play with 6 3 3 8 linemen  |
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ABBL Commissioner
http://www.shef.ac.uk/wargamessoc
Member #2351
Noodle's Tournies
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 07:46 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
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Location: England
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I too had no idea that removing Ogres from Orcs was even being considered. (My fellow NAFer in my league say's he had heard a vague rumour, but he's also a TBBer too.) I new Dwarfs were losing them (rightly so IMO) and Halflings and Gobbos. I thought it was unnecessary, if not unfair, to remove them from the stunties but was under the impression when I heard about it that it was a done deal. So I was rather annoyed to find that my Orc team had lost the right, so to speak, to field their comically inept Ogre. (I listed this guy as my contribution to the BB world's worst player thread in the General section.)
I have two comments to make about some of the above responses on this thread.
First, it is all very well saying that anyone can write to Fanatic about BB.
But what are we going to say?
"Dear Andy Hall
I really like the team I'm playing with right now, and I think it's fair and balanced just as it is. Just in case you are thinking of making any changes, please don't.
Yours sincerely.
Overly paranoid BB coach."
Secondly, just because one person says it a thousand times (literally or figuratively) doesn't make it true. Or mean that people don't have the right to be upset, or question the legitimacy of the change, when the first they hear of it is in the RR after it's happened. |
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coachblacknife |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 10:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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Doubleskulls wrote: There is nothing to stop you or anyone else emailing Fanatic with your views. Andy Hall is generally quite good at responding.
Fair point. Have done so today, before posting here actually.
Doubleskulls wrote: If you want to contact Chet or Neo they both post here so you can always PM them.
That's nice, but as i've yet to see a point to the NAF I don't think I will resubscribe when my year is up. If i'm not subscribed, I can't contact them. Clique? If they're contactable elsewhere then top marks (bbowl-l, tbbf, etc.). |
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-Andy-
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"Changes made for changes' sake, does not make the changes great."
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coachblacknife |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 11:10 AM
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GalakStarscraper wrote: Actually ... there is no mention in any pictures or fluff about Ogres playing for Goblin or Orc teams. The only picture I could find was Morg playing for an Orc team and he's a mercenary star. His normal team he played for was usually the Chaos All-Stars.
The only specific mention I could find of Ogres interacting with another race outside of Morg in the fluff was that the Oldheim Ogre roster was composed of 6 Ogres and 4 Goblins.
Page 63 of the Handbook. Second paragraph:
"Orcs have always respected brawn over intelligence, and so they frequently make use of black orcs and ogre players in their teams..." |
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-Andy-
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"Changes made for changes' sake, does not make the changes great."
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 03, 2003 - 02:16 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
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coachblacknife wrote: Doubleskulls wrote: If you want to contact Chet or Neo they both post here so you can always PM them.
That's nice, but as i've yet to see a point to the NAF I don't think I will resubscribe when my year is up. If i'm not subscribed, I can't contact them. Clique? If they're contactable elsewhere then top marks (bbowl-l, tbbf, etc.).
Both are on TBB. Milo & Babs occassionally post there too. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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coachblacknife |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 04, 2003 - 04:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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Doubleskulls wrote: Both are on TBB. Milo & Babs occassionally post there too.
In which case... top marks |
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-Andy-
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"Changes made for changes' sake, does not make the changes great."
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Tutenkharnage |
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Post subject:
Posted: Dec 04, 2003 - 06:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 620
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Doubleskulls wrote: But [the Troll is] is significantly weaker. The extra roll for the Big Guy (which results in a turnover too) means your TTM success rate drops.
Don't forget:
* Really Stupid
* MA 4
* AG 1
Don't forget: your league is your league. You don't like the loss of Ogres? Let 'em play for the Orcs! The world won't stop spinning. The BBRC won't be knocking on your door with a cease-and-desist order
-Chet |
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