| Author |
Message |
pfooti |
|
Post subject: So, is passing required?
 Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 09:59 AM
|
|
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
Posts: 81
Status: Offline
|
|
In the WA discussion, it came out that the LRB is inconsistent in its description of the Pass action. On p8, it says at the end of the Pass action you must throw the ball, and on p13 it says may. I've always played it with may.
Under most conditions (say 90% of the time), I will end a Pass action with a pass. There are times when I decide against it. For example: I blow a reroll on my first GFI roll, and decide that the pass has become too risky. I fail to break my ballcarrier away from the tentacled player marking him. After looking more closely at the board, I realize that there are two passblockers standing right near my intended receiver.
The last example doesn't mean that I will cancel a pass after declaring a target, making an official measurement and allowing my oppo to move his passblockers. At that point, I'm locked in. But I could (maybe) decide against actually throwing the ball at any point before designating a receiver.
So, under most conditions, may-pass and must-pass are the same. But there are good times when the may-pass interpretation adds more strategy to the game, which would be turned into weirdness by the must-pass interpretation (for example, can the passer throw to himself?)
Any FAQ/clarification will have to be supplemented by a change to the LRB, since the current rulebook isn't just unclear, it is self-contradicting. |
_________________
Pfooti, Bishop of the OCN
|
| |
|
|
|
 |
|
mikeyc222 |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 11:47 AM
|
|
Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Posts: 180
Status: Offline
|
|
| i would say that you can change your mind and hold on to the ball but the pass action is wasted |
_________________
Because everything in life is just another Dumb Distraction!
http://www.dumbdistraction.com
Free the West Memphis 3!
http://www.wm3.org
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 12:25 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2320
Location: United States of America
|
|
| Galak posted in the other thread that MAY pass the ball is the way he plays it and they'll try to clear it up. We play with MAY. This gives the thrower the opportunity to hold off on the throw after seeing how the defense reacts (pass block). |
_________________
aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 12:33 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
|
|
We've always played with "must".
Regardless of how you play, after the pass blockers have moved, it's too late, you have to throw. I think that's in the description of pass block. I'm sure it's somewhere. |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject: Re: So, is passing required?
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 12:35 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
|
|
pfooti wrote: can the passer throw to himself?
No, it clearly says that it has to be to a teammate. This is the same reason why catching his own accurate pass, though it avoids a turnover, doesn't give him a completion and the SPP. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 12:44 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2320
Location: United States of America
|
|
| Yup, my bad on pass block. Once they (a defender with pass block) move you must throw. |
_________________
aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
Last edited by Melifaxis on Mar 01, 2004 - 01:01 PM; edited 1 time in total
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
pfooti |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 12:54 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
Posts: 81
Status: Offline
|
|
Yah, I definitely hope Galak's interpretation is the one they end up using. Chet seems to have come down on the other side (in that thread at least).
As far as turnovers go, it seems a little odd that a "bounce pass" doesn't cause a turnover. As far as I read the rules, if the ball hits the ground but bounces into a teammates hands, it doesn't count as a completion, but it is not a turnover. This seems inconsistent with the instant-TO flavor of fumble (what if you fumble into a teammate's hands?)
As a matter of fact, I once (as a desperation move) tried to make a bounce pass. I threw at the empty square in front of my receiver (who was in the endzone), got the right bounce (1 in 8 chance!) and failed the catch. It was in the final of our league tournament and would have pushed the game into OT (instead of if being a loss for me). |
_________________
Pfooti, Bishop of the OCN
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
mtn_bike |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 01:23 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 05, 2004
Posts: 74
Status: Offline
|
|
| I certinally hope it goes from may to must. We play may but I think if you declare any action you must go through with it or its a turn over. I've played in games where since the RR was used on a dodge or someother action the player won't make the block in a blitz or throw the pass. We had an ongoing debate over pass/handoff mistake. There has been games where coaches miscount and say "I didn't realize I could make the handoff. It's the same in the book without the pass roll." It's because they used their RR to get out of a TZ. I know if they had that RR to back them up they would make the pass further down field or to the QP player for the SPP's. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
pfooti |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 01:29 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 29, 2003
Posts: 81
Status: Offline
|
|
Well, there is a difference betweeen the may-pass rule and trying to turn a Pass action into a Handoff. If you declare Pass action, you can't turn it into a Handoff, any more than you could turn a Move into a Blitz or Foul action.
Count squares ahead of time. If you're hedging because you don't know if you'll blow a reroll on a dodge halfway there, you're cheating. Declare the Pass and make a very short pass.
But it makes sense to declare (and possibly waste) a Blitz action and then decide not to throw the block when you waste your RR getting there. Consider throwing a desperation half-die block on a ballcarrier, I've done it, but if I don't have Strip Ball or a Reroll (preferably both) going for me when I get there, I won't make the hit. Remember, I've wasted the Blitz action no matter what (I can't declare another one this game). |
_________________
Pfooti, Bishop of the OCN
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 01:34 PM
|
|
Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
|
|
mtn_bike wrote: I certainly hope it goes from may to must.
It wouldn't "go from may to must". For that, it would have to be "may" currently. It's not. Currently, it's both. You play "may", i play "must". Both are just as valid the way the rules are written now. |
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 01, 2004 - 03:34 PM
|
|
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
|
|
pfooti wrote: As far as turnovers go, it seems a little odd that a "bounce pass" doesn't cause a turnover. As far as I read the rules, if the ball hits the ground but bounces into a teammates hands, it doesn't count as a completion, but it is not a turnover.
Not quite.
If the pass was Accurate (ie you made the Pass roll), and the ball ends up in the hands of one of the throwers team-mates, it's a completion.
If the pass was Inaacuare (ie you failed the Pass roll, but didn't fumble), but still ends up in the hands of a team-mate it's not a completion, but it's not an Turnover either. |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Indigo |
|
|
Post subject: Re: So, is passing required?
Posted: Mar 02, 2004 - 03:14 AM
|
|
Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
Status: Offline
|
|
Zombie wrote: This is the same reason why catching his own accurate pass, though it avoids a turnover, doesn't give him a completion and the SPP.
Not sure this is true.
LRB 2, pg 39 wrote: Note that the ball must be caught by a player from the moving team or it's not a completion.
So in the event a pass is accurate but not caught and it bounces into the thrower's square who then catches it, it's a completion.
Galak's GenCon 03 quiz had a very similar question to this too and the answer was the same - the completion is awarded. |
_________________
NAF #60
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 02, 2004 - 03:37 AM
|
|
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
|
|
Indi, check LRB p.39:
Code: Completions (COMP): A player who makes an
accurate pass that is caught by another player earns 1
Star Player point. An accurate pass is called a
???completion??? or complete pass. Note that the ball must
be caught by a player from the same team, otherwise
it is not complete!
Cleary states it must be caught by another player from the same side. |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Indigo |
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 02, 2004 - 03:57 AM
|
|
Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
Status: Offline
|
|
Hmmm I need Galak to step in here and clear up my confusion. He said it was OK to me  |
_________________
NAF #60
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Post subject:
Posted: Mar 02, 2004 - 04:02 AM
|
|
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
|
|
What, you don't trust me? Believe me it's true  . My Vamps in the MBBL did exactly that. Vamp 1 threw to vamp 2 in the EZ, and accurately threw the ball. Vamp 2 dropped it (on a 1  ), the ball bounced out of play. Crowd threw it straight back at vamp 1, who caught it. I asked Gala then, and he told me it's not a completion, as it was not caught by another player on your team. So vamp 1 had to do it himself next turn  . |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
