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Post subject: Illegal Procedures
 Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 12:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Canada
Posts: 774
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Hi guys!
First: I don't want to start over the debate about should we play with it or not. This is not about that! For the purpose of this post, please know that we DO play with IP in my league.
This is what happened: Skaven vs Dwarves. Skaven's first move is a dodge to reach the end zone. When he reaches it, Dwarf coach realizes there is an IP. What's going on now?
The guy had a re-roll left, so he used it, but what if he didn't have one handy. Play is brought back or player stops one step short of the endzone or nothing happens??
Let me know!
Fred |
_________________
Winner of Soup Bowls I, II, III (Chaos Dwarves); IV, V (Dwarves); XIII (Orcs); XIV (Dark Elves) & XVII (Chaos).
Forget the Yankees, forget the Habs: THAT'S a Dynasty!!!
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 12:44 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
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Had the dice been rolled? If so, tough, the IP should have been called before IMO.
[Edit] Let me re-phrase that. If the oppo coach realises he called an IP after the fact, then he's missed the chance to call it. So in the case above, if the Skaven coach has rolled for the dodge, then he's missed his chance and a TD is scored. If he noticed after the rat has moved the fig, but before he's rolled the dice, I'd play it that the rat would go back to the last sqauare he could enter without rolling. This was the way we did it wen we first sarted playing. |
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_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 12:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2320
Location: United States of America
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| Seems fair to me. |
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aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 02:09 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Location: Kent, UK
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| I'd say that if you have scored - tough its too late. But if the Dwarf player said anything before you actually finished moving into the endzone then the IP ought to stand. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Slinky78 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 02:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 20, 2003
England
Posts: 50
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| I'd be inclined to agree with Darkson. If he's rolled for the dodge, and thus started the move action then I'd expect the IP only kicks in at the end of the curent action (i.e. before any more dice are rolled). As the action is underway it seems most clinical to allow it to complete (not the same as then letting someone block because they declared a blitz). If for no other reason than you'll get all sorts of debate about "what if he was in the endzone but the coach was still holding the mini, so technically he hadn't finished", or "I called IP before his foot crossed the line - prove it...". |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 02:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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| On a related topic, when we play with a timer around here (a rare occurance but necessary with some excruciatingly slow coaches), we allow the coach to finish moving the currently active player. Sounds like people are advocating the same thing for illegal procedure. It makes sense, but is in no way official. |
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They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 03:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 23, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 550
Location: United States of America
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| if he got to to the endzone without getting caught it's a freebie. |
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Aramil |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 05:07 PM
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Joined: Mar 17, 2003
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Location: Rovigo, Italy
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In Italy we do that way:
in the moment you call the IP, your opponent must burn a RR or stop the action in that moment. Everything he did before remain... so, in the case your talking about, if the TD was already scored, it's valid... if, at the contrary, the IP was called before the mini reached the end zone, then the situation must be "freezed" and the turn ends. |
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Fulvio Cavicchi
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pfooti |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 06:04 PM
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Joined: Oct 29, 2003
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So, out of curiosity: what happens if you have an oldschool WA (move first, must block), and you move your lineman 1 square into the endzone with no rolls needed first?
It isn't an IP until you move the lineman, and at that point, he's in the EZ. |
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Pfooti, Bishop of the OCN
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 18, 2004 - 07:11 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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| It isn't an IP until you touch the lineman. As soon as you touch it, he should call the IP. Of course, if you move the player so fast as to leave him no chance of calling it, he's still entitled to call it on you. |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 19, 2004 - 02:32 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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pfooti wrote: So, out of curiosity: what happens if you have an oldschool WA (move first, must block), and you move your lineman 1 square into the endzone with no rolls needed first?
It isn't an IP until you move the lineman, and at that point, he's in the EZ.
That's cheating... |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 19, 2004 - 07:45 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
Posts: 728
Location: England
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Zombie wrote: It isn't an IP until you touch the lineman. As soon as you touch it, he should call the IP.
Wrong. Touching the model is not enough, and neither is declaring an action.
LRB wrote: If he forgets to move the counter before taking an action with one or more of his players, then the opposing coach is allowed to call for an ???illegal procedure??? penalty as soon as he spots the mistake. An action is considered to be moving one or more squares, or rolling the dice to throw a block, pass the ball or dodge.
In the case first cited in this thread the Skaven player scores, and did not even have to burn a re roll. The Dwarf player has simply noticed the IP too late.
LRB wrote: ... basically a coach that suffers a turnover must end his turn immediately ??? even if part way through a player???s action.
It is quite clear that you do not take back any moves made by players and that you cannot be IPed before the dodge roll is made. |
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pfooti |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 19, 2004 - 10:25 AM
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Joined: Oct 29, 2003
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The LRB sez that an IP happens when you move a player one or more squares or roll a die. In my league, we force a "takeback" if the coach doesn't burn a reroll, to avoid this particular situation (unpreventably scoring during an IP).
While I agree with doubleskull's sentiment: "I'ts cheating", I don't think it is really cheating. I'd say that it is unsportsmanlike, but it is only cheating if it is against the rules. |
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Pfooti, Bishop of the OCN
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mtn_bike |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 19, 2004 - 10:37 AM
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Joined: Feb 05, 2004
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Quote LRB P8
A coach that suffers a turnover must end his turn immediately - even if part way through a players action. The only exception is that Armour rolls and injury must still be made for players that have been knocked over.
That says to me that the spot where the player is in the movement is where the player should stop. So if the move was one space to the end zone then the TD still counts. At least in my world. |
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mtn_bike |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 19, 2004 - 11:03 AM
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Joined: Feb 05, 2004
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Zombie wrote: It isn't an IP until you touch the lineman. As soon as you touch it, he should call the IP. Of course, if you move the player so fast as to leave him no chance of calling it, he's still entitled to call it on you.
I have to disagree with you zombie. (That has never been said before  ) Refacing players or turning them is not a turnover but you need to touch them to do that. I was called on that one game when I was fresh to BB and didn't know any better. But you bring up a valid point about fast movers though. I'm not big on letting people pick up players and placing them in the new spot that was counted out mentally. I need to see the path. One reason you will get that guy who is in a rush and pick up the player scoring the TD and move him 2+ spaces to place him in the EZ without moving the turnmarker. In that case if an IP is called then I would rule that the player gets to move one spot from where he started. |
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