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Post subject:
 Posted: Jun 24, 2004 - 05:53 AM
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Big Mek
Joined: May 06, 2004
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Posts: 455
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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GE_Fu wrote:
Actually there is an official answer in the LRB3 Faq for that.
If a player has to be pushed it is 1. empty square 2. player/off the field (moving team choice) and if one has stand firm the others first.
I can't seem to find this in the official Q&A, please provide a quote.
GE_Fu wrote:
OK, so this is a case where stand firm protects the pushed player.
By the way, Stan Firm states cannot be pushed back, so it is not a choice.
I'm with Tio on this one. You do not have to use a skill/trait (except frenzy) just because you've got it, and a player who doesn't use a skill is regarded as not having it. |
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GE_Fu |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 25, 2004 - 05:50 AM
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Joined: Jun 12, 2004
Posts: 15
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I stand corrected : straight from the Living Rulebook 3.0 :
LRB3.0 wrote:
Stand Firm (Strength Trait)
A player with this skill is never pushed back as the result of a block. He may completely ignore ???Push Back??? results, and 'Knock-down' results always knock the player over in the square where he started. If a player is pushed back into a player with Stand Firm then neither player moves. In addition, the player does not fall over if he fails a Dodge roll. Although the player stays on his feet, he must return to his starting square. His action ends and he may do nothing else that turn. A turnover, however, does not take place.
Highlight mine.
Also straight from the LRB3.0 :
LRB3.0 wrote: Push Backs: A player that is pushed back as a result of a block must be moved one square away from the player making the block, as shown in the diagrams. The coach of the player who made the block may decide which square the player is moved to.
The player must be pushed back into an empty square if possible. If all such squares are occupied by other players, then the player is pushed into an occupied square, and the player that originally occupied the square is pushed back in turn. This secondary push back is treated exactly like a normal push back as if the second player had been blocked by the first. The coach of the moving team decides all push back directions for secondary push backs unless the pushed player has a skill that overrides this.
Players must be pushed off the field if there are no eligible empty squares on the field. A player pushed off the field is beaten up by the crowd and must roll on the Injury Table (see Injuries, opposite). No modifiers apply to this roll.
You can then push back and apply the block result to your own player if you are not smart.
Player pushes a player with side step : no empty square, other coach chooses one of your players -> both falls (if block results state so) -> turnover.
Order would then be :
1. Empty Square
2. Off Field
3. Other player
4. Other player w/stand firm (and if other coach chooses to apply it -> no move)
Example where all of that could apply :
Code: *
FG*
DE*
BC*
A *
*
A push B, coach chooses D, D goes in free square.
coach chooses E, E goes off field
coach chooses C, C goes off field
On top of that as the original block result applies, you can get 2 casualties with one block attempt for real. The  result will get applied to both players. In that example, if you want to try the double casualty, you should obviously choose D.
Otherwise, you can take the safe path and push them off-field. 1 possible CAS and one player out for the drive for sure.
Would mighty blow get applied to both block ? I would tend to say yes, as the rules say that the original block result applies to both. What do you think ?
The debate during the game was quite heated. With some time to investigate quite easy to sort out.
Sorry for mischoosing the actual sources. I did not have the time to look it up properly.
The same opponent then failed to score on 4 consecutive dodge rolls  during the same match of course. He was quite mad at me 
Francois |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 25, 2004 - 06:22 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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The second player is only pushed back. He can't be taken down, no matter what you rolled.
According to the official rules, a player with stand firm can be chosen over a normal player (like i said, this is only a house rule). |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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slup |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 25, 2004 - 06:31 AM
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Big Mek
Joined: May 06, 2004
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Posts: 455
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
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Francois, it is only the push back that is applied to D or E, not the knock down.
Unless using multiple block you can only knock down one player with one block.
Quote: This secondary push back is treated exactly like a normal push back as if the second player had been blocked by the first
Also note that even when using side step, you are still only allowed to choose empty squares when being pushed.
You cannot side step into another player.
And you still owe me a quote for the following:
Quote:
Actually there is an official answer in the LRB3 Faq for that.
If a player has to be pushed it is 1. empty square 2. player/off the field (moving team choice) and if one has stand firm the others first. |
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mikeyc222 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 25, 2004 - 03:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Posts: 180
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GE_Fu wrote: ...the rules say that the original block result applies to both...
sorry, man. that's a big fat negative. the rules only refer to pushing back NOT knocking down a secondary push. no where does it mention the block result. |
_________________
Because everything in life is just another Dumb Distraction!
http://www.dumbdistraction.com
Free the West Memphis 3!
http://www.wm3.org
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GE_Fu |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 27, 2004 - 09:11 AM
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Joined: Jun 12, 2004
Posts: 15
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mikeyc222 wrote: GE_Fu wrote: ...the rules say that the original block result applies to both...
sorry, man. that's a big fat negative. the rules only refer to pushing back NOT knocking down a secondary push. no where does it mention the block result.
Oooops...
Seems o me I can't even read what I quote correctly...
Francois |
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Tio_Luiso |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2004 - 12:25 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 18
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1.- Secondary pushbacks are just that: pushbacks. Pow's do not propagate.
2.- I don't see why I couldn't choose a Stand firm player over a non-stand firm player for secondary pushbacks. Obviously, free squares are chosen above occupied ones. Say, in the next diagram:
A E
BDF
C G
Where A, B, and C are my players, D is an opponent's player, and E, F and G are my players. F has Stand Firm. I could hit him with A. Pushback. I choose to push him into F. So no pushback. Then I could hit him with B. Pushback. I choose to push him into F. So no pushback. And so on...
3.- While most times I'll want to use Stand Firm, it's up to me to choose if I use it or not, like any other skill or trait. There might be times where I would want to be pushed back. I remember, however, that javabbowl doesn't let you choose if you use it or not. It's always used. A pity. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 29, 2004 - 01:13 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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| No you couldn't. On the first block with A, you'd have to push him in the empty square between C and G. |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Tio_Luiso |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2004 - 12:02 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2004
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True. I failed to see that. but if the diagram were something like
 
Where are my players, are my players with Stand Firm and is the opponent, it would be overkill, but i could hit the opponent with every player without pushing him.
On the other side, in the next diagram:
if my opponent blocks my player (whom has Stand Firm) with his player , and the result is a pushback, I can choose not to use Stand Firm, to get to the next diagram:
Where are the possible pushback directions. |
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Tio_Luiso |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2004 - 12:05 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2004
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Sorry. The second diagram was something like this:
where is the square just left by the blocker (if he chooses to follow) |
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Tio_Luiso |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2004 - 12:06 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2004
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| Sorry again. Not the second, but the third diagram. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2004 - 12:09 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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| If you've got 8 players surrounding the opponent, you don't need stand firm to get 8 blocks on him. Push him onto anyone of your players who hasn't played yet. Push that player straight. Then hit him back with this same player to get him back inside the "cage". Rinse and repeat. |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Tio_Luiso |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 30, 2004 - 12:11 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2004
Posts: 18
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Yup. Obviously. Only for the sake of demonstrating that I don't have to choose a non-Stand Firm player over a Stand-Firm Player.
Thanks anyway. |
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