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majortusk |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 01:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
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Best way to solve that problem with overall winners, is to make a seperate award.
Overall Tournament winner and Best Coach. Tournament winner only takes in account of just the game stats, Best Coach takes care of all the stats combined.
Seen that be used in many Tourneys over here. |
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Andy
BBC Webmaster
Blood Bowl Central
BBC Lockerroom
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dwarfcoach |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 04:32 AM
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The Best Dressed Man in Blood Bowl
Joined: Apr 13, 2003
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majortusk wrote: Best way to solve that problem with overall winners, is to make a seperate award.
Overall Tournament winner and Best Coach. Tournament winner only takes in account of just the game stats, Best Coach takes care of all the stats combined.
Yep, 100% in agreement!  That means that you have a 'knock-out competition style' champion and an 'overall most tourney points style' champion. Both players get acknowledged and it's up to the individual to decide which champion they think is more worthy.
I personally would judge them on an equal level and give the same prize/amount of kudos to both... |
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Chuck Norris does not sleep. He waits.
224th at The World Cup II
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 05:41 AM
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Is no one going to post the number of coaches that attended?  |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 05:44 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Zombie wrote: Galak, even if it's less than before, that's still too many bonus points, as can clearly be seen by the final result. I agree with jpeletis, in that people should only be ranked by their records, with TDs, CAS and sportsmanship used only as tie breakers.
Been there, tried that .... had 6 coaches drop out of the tournament after the 1st round because they lost their first game which made it mathematically impossible for them to compete for gold ring.
So I'll just say I agree and disagree with your opinion Zombie. In a perfect world yeah ... its a great idea. But BB coaches are not perfect people so the point system has to make it very difficult to catch up for a loss but possible. Just my personal belief on the matter. Otherwise, the non-die hards find better things to do with the rest of their day.
As for sportsmanship ... yeah Dean ... I see how you suggest that could happen. But to be honest the type of coach that would be willing to do that probably won't be getting many sportsmanship points from his other 3 games as that type of attitude tends to bleed through your playing style.
That said ... it was a good time ... it ran a lot better than I hoped. I'm going to take some thoughts from Ken on the bonus points for CAS and I'll kick around in my head Dean's thoughts on sportsmanship.
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 06:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Old_Man_Monkey wrote: Is no one going to post the number of coaches that attended?
22 according to Galak over on TBB  |
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aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 06:18 AM
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| Thank, Rob! Just saw where Tom had posted it... such an in-between number - I had thought 30+ would mean relative success, below 20 demonstration of failure... still, when I see 40 or so in Canada - with the effort that was made to entertain and enjoy - it's clear that someone in the US has some work to do... |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
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avatar666 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 08:16 AM
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Joined: Nov 07, 2004
Carol Stream
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Xtreme,
Yeah that was a great game. It's always very "interesting" setting up against a Big guy team when my guys only have strength 2 and strength 3. That's why they can run like hell!
At the end of the second half I don't think I ever seen anyone roll that many "Bonehead" rolls! 
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avatar666 |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 09:08 AM
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Joined: Nov 07, 2004
Carol Stream
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Quote: As for sportsmanship ... yeah Dean ... I see how you suggest that could happen. But to be honest the type of coach that would be willing to do that probably won't be getting many sportsmanship points from his other 3 games as that type of attitude tends to bleed through your playing style.
I agree with you Tom. But the problem I see is it is a vote you cast insecrecy at the end of the tourney. Plus the fact that you have to give somebody that dreaded 4th slot of 3 points. It was a very difficult to decide some of the ranking as all of the coaches I played could have a 1st place rating if it was possible, and I would like to think that I was as good as sport in their eyes as well. In theory, someone could end up with 12 points (4 games of 4th sportsmanship), just because every coach had to chose one.
Like I said, I am new to tourneys, so I don;t fully understand all of the reasoning., but I think that your "Red" and "Yellow" demerits would be enough to take away the threat of a poor sport going anywhere point wise.
Quote: That said ... it was a good time ... it ran a lot better than I hoped.
I agree 100% - and I think everyone who attended would agree! |
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 10:11 AM
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Joined: Nov 23, 2003
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i'm in the group of overall winner and tourney champion (winner of championship game) --but usually they are the same person so the overall winner would go to 2nd best.
As for sportsmanship, I think this is the best method I've seen just because it actually forces you to differentiate between your opponents. Other tourneys basically I've seen have you give everybody a rating....some people just give max points to everyone while others differentiate. Which leads to skewed results. I think with this system you'll actually get a "best sportsman" because the variance of pts. |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 12:35 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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This could change ... but here I think are my thoughts for GenCon then next year that used the same system as the Chaos Cup.
1) 5 games
2) Top two teams using game+bonus points after 4 games play in the final in game 5. They are 1st and 2nd. Drop the prize for 3rd place.
3) All-around coach award will be award to the coach from the remaining players with the most overall tournament points (including sportsmanship and painting).
4) CAS bonus points will move to 10 points for 2 more than opponent, 5 points for 1 more, 0 points for tie.
5) Sportsmanship will be revised to this if GenCon was still 4 games like the Chaos Cup was:
1st: 17 points
2nd: 13 points
3rd: 9 points
4th: 5 points
Your highest and lowest rankings will be halved and rounded up for total sportsmanship.
So the current system without this change would have a maximum of 52 and a minimum of 12 for 4 games. This would have a maximum of 52 and a minimum 16 for 4 games.
This is removes some error if a coach gets nailed hard by one weird result. A coach in the old method with 3 1sts and a 4th would get 42 points. With this sytem he would get 46 points. Without ignoring results you cannot totally fix this possible issue that Dean mentioned ... but this reduces its effect quite a bit ... costing that coach no more than 6 points as compared to 10 in the old system.
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Not locked in stone ... but this is what I'm taking away from this tournament at this moment for possible changes.
Galak |
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 12:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 23, 2003
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| that looks solid to me tom. |
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jaylazer |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 12:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
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GalakStarscraper wrote: 5) Sportsmanship will be revised to this if GenCon was still 4 games like the Chaos Cup was:
1st: 17 points
2nd: 13 points
3rd: 9 points
4th: 5 points
Your highest and lowest rankings will be halved and rounded up for total sportsmanship.
So the current system without this change would have a maximum of 52 and a minimum of 12 for 4 games. This would have a maximum of 52 and a minimum 16 for 4 games.
This is removes some error if a coach gets nailed hard by one weird result. A coach in the old method with 3 1sts and a 4th would get 42 points. With this sytem he would get 46 points. Without ignoring results you cannot totally fix this possible issue that Dean mentioned ... but this reduces its effect quite a bit ... costing that coach no more than 6 points as compared to 10 in the old system.
Galak, I'm a little confused about this. You've mixed tense a couple of times and some of the math doesn't seem to add up.
Could you post exactly what you are thinking of for next years Gen Con?
If you put that in it might clear it up.
Also, I'm not sure I follow your math. 3 firsts and a 4th add up to 56 (17*3 +5) you said 42?
Did I miss something?  |
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Jay
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 01:07 PM
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Joined: Nov 23, 2003
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| I think Chaos cup was 13, 10, 6, 3 |
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jaylazer |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 01:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
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gken1 wrote: I think Chaos cup was 13, 10, 6, 3
OK. Now I get 42. Thanks Ken  |
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Jay
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 08, 2004 - 01:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 23, 2003
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Chaos Cup FLUFF:
Warped Vengence 2 vs Desert Kings 1
The Warped Vengence raised the Chaos Cup in the air declaring victory, but when they go to receive their winnings the Chaos gods frowned on their Casualty output and they only walk away with the Cup. The Desert Kings receive all the $$$$$$$$$$$$ from the Crystal Ball Service (CBS) and the gate.
Warped Vengence----Chaos Cup Champs!!!!!!!!! |
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