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AnthonyTBBF |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 09:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
Status: Offline
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Old_Man_Monkey wrote: Thank, Rob! Just saw where Tom had posted it... such an in-between number - I had thought 30+ would mean relative success, below 20 demonstration of failure... still, when I see 40 or so in Canada - with the effort that was made to entertain and enjoy - it's clear that someone in the US has some work to do...
Yikes, this doesn't look good... why do you guys suppose there was such a (relatively) low turnout? |
_________________
Anthony - Ex Presidente
www.xtbbf.org
Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 11:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2696
Location: Undisclosed
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| Have to agree with absent here, I reall dislike that type of "sportsman" scoring. I'd be more likely to "forget" to mark anyone (possibly screwing 4 people) that have to choose. In the 5 turneys I've attended, there's been 1 I'd rather not play again, 1 I'd play again but don't care if I don't, and the rest of them I'd happily play again anyday, and I'd find it almost impossible to choose between them. Hell, Siky this year I play 6 people and can't chose between them. I perfer absents idea of a pool of poits for you to divide, then these fixed values. |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Grumbledook |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 12:01 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Posts: 922
Status: Offline
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Darkson wrote: 1 I'd rather not play again
i hope that wasn't me ;] |
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'Boomshanker an Interception'
Jon
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angryrob |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 12:09 PM
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Joined: Jul 07, 2004
Posts: 71
Status: Offline
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| Galak[/quote] Quote:
absent wrote:
I didn't like the idea of putting the new guy down as number 4 because he is just getting into the game
do you guys even know what sportsmanship means?
Quote:
I don't mind teaching someone to play, but not at a timed tournament
isn't this game supposed to be fun |
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absent |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 01:33 PM
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Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
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angryrob wrote:
isn't this game supposed to be fun
sure is, thats why I love leagues, and the whole game, thats why I had fun in my 4 close games at the CC(even against the new guy was close as my blitzer hurt himself on his thrower) I didn't say I didn't have fun, I said I had the least fun vs. him because I had to sit and teach him while my lunch hour was going by, and the game was the least competative. What does sportsmanship mean?, to me it means how fun the person was to play against. I would rather have given him 3rd, I kinda had a tie for first and a tie for third for sportsmanship in my eyes, not a first and a last. After I posted that I knew I was too tired, it kinda came across rude, but O well, I had a great time at the tournament and putting someone as last in sportsmanship was the only bad part of the whole thing. |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 02:05 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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AnthonyTBBF wrote: Yikes, this doesn't look good... why do you guys suppose there was such a (relatively) low turnout?
1) One day tournament. We could debate this for a year but I think the one day format counted for a good piece of the drop from 43 to 22 coaches. You are not going to get folks from out of town (other than Xavier and Ken) to come to a one day event.
2) Buried info. The rules for the tournament were buried on a non GW site so deep that most of the coaches were unable to find the rules.
3) Little to no advertising. I'm told there was a ad in White Dwarf, but other than that and some flyers at GenCon ... advertising was almost nil.
4) Appearance of lack of support. The one day format mixed with how the tournament was organized last year gave the impression to many that it was not going to be run well. That turned out not to be true, but only because NAF folks like Gregg and I (and I think Andy as well) stepped in and gave GW a hand.
===========================================
Solutions as I see them
1) We have to convince Joe to try a 2 day tournament again. I consider most of the 21 folks that didn't show up to be voting for 2 days. If a 2 day event doesn't generate interest next year ... I'd back down ... but I think its important to pull in the out of towners.
2) GW or NAF or I reserve a domain and use it to post results, rules, and information on the tournament. I'll more than happy post a link straight to it off my main page of bloodbowl.net which will help inform everyone. In addition, this site could list nearby inexpensive hotels to help folks see that its not that expensive to stay overnight.
3) GW needs to make sure that Fanatic Mag (even if its online) has a full page/half page ad to announce the event. It needs an ad in White Dwarf to run, and its needs to make sure there is an online presense to advertise the tournament.
4) If the NAF has all 4 (5 if you add on in OZ) majors be the same for K value, this will help give the world legit reasons to take the effort to attend the majors. There are several NAF members that are willing get the Chaos Cup a breathing functional tournament. But the NAF lending it some street cred would sure as heck help. Right now if I've got to choose between GenCon and the Chaos Cup ... its a slam dunk if I'm buying a plane ticket because the GenCon tournament will be more games, more folks, and count more for my NAF ranking. I'm willing to work with Joe on more games, but I need the NAF to equal up the majors to give the Cup some more reasons for folks to come. If we can get folks through the doors, we can make it a good tournament.
5) Joe is working on starting a Battle Bunker Blood Bowl league ... if that takes hold that will be an excellent source for players and word of mouth to build on for that tournament.
Galak |
Last edited by GalakStarscraper on Nov 10, 2004 - 08:56 AM; edited 1 time in total
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absent |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 02:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
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Everyone is jumping around like this was some disastorous failure, I, For One, thought the tournament was great, and I didn't hear ONE PERSON complain during the tournament about it.
I'd like to mention there were only 20 boards available from the tourney host, thats a 40person max, I don't see how 22 people was that bad for a 40 person max.
Always amazing how things get blown out of proportion online.... I guess thats what I'm here for though, thats ussually my job! |
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 03:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 23, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 550
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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i'm just glad to have met more people.....that's always the goal 
I got to play Xavier and his pansy elves I think I was the only one to hold him scoreless....but it took double 1's from his catcher to do it
I met Tom-finallly!!!!!--he looked alot taller in pictures , Brian, Dean, Andy (again), Jim the spammer, and got to see the GenCon/Chaos Cup Casualty machine Alex in action 8 Casualties agianst UNDEAD!!! incredible.
But I agree with Tom that next year should be a two day event to see if more people would come. |
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 03:07 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 2627
Location: Kent, UK
Status: Offline
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absent wrote: The better the game, the more fun it is, I assumed thats I should vote for who I had the most fun against. If I have to hold my opponents hand and point out 2 die blocks for him every turn to get through the turn... eh...I don't mind teaching someone to play, but not at a timed tournament.
This is a separate issue - and one probably peculiar to the US (where tournies are in conventions rather than specifically set up for the competition). TBH inadequetely prepared coaches I'll generally mark down (i.e. not know basic rules) because I believe when you've paid however much to play each game you want opponent's who are competent.
The problem I'm referring too is where you lose a 6 man pitch invasion in the 1st kick off and lose 4-0. Invariably low sportsmanship points are awarded for such games (by both players) because the game itself wasn't fun. It has no bearing on the sportsmanship of either coach (sometimes coaches in those games are very sporting). |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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absent |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 03:26 PM
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Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
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gken1 wrote: Jim the spammer
HEY! I resemble that remark!
if 2 day tourney would double the number of people I'll dish the 25 on a hotel, I'll concede that. |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 05:04 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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absent wrote: Everyone is jumping around like this was some disastorous failure,! Its the lens you use to view Jim.
You are looking at it and comparing it to tournaments like the Halfling Dinner Mug, Underworld, or the Golden Skull ... then it was a decent tournament.
When you compare it to the other majors that it was supposed to match up to with 38, 76, and 192 players ... well it wasn't there.
So it was not a disasterous failure as a tournament. It was well run, the prizes were nice, it stay on time for the most part, and folks had a good time. But the desire is to kick it up a notch from being just another US tournament and give it the type of appeal that would make folks want to come you have to do so without a car.
Galak |
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absent |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 05:29 PM
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Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
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We in the US don't have the population density of BB players as they do in europe, hardly our fault. At gen con you get every gamer and their brother, and they draw a bigger crowd yes. I say yes to more advertisment, yes to 2 day tournaments, yes to whatever will make the tournaments larger, but NO to this was some kinda failure. I had a great time, and that is a success to me. If everyone has a great time I think that will help tournament participation, kinda a grassroots type of advertising.
I wouldn't ever spend money on a plane flight for a BB tourney, and I don't blame other people for feeling the same way. BB tournament winnings arn't going to pay for the trip, and It's not like us gamers are rich (not many i've met anyway)
If GW promoted BB at all in the states you might get a pick up in tournaments though, I don't think the issue is how the tournament was advertised or run, or what format it was, but the number of players in a 12 state area from Illinois. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 05:44 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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absent wrote: We in the US don't have the population density of BB players as they do in europe, hardly our fault.
The US has about 12 times the population density that Canada has, and your major had about half the turnout that ours did. And this despite the fact that the Spike! was only announced about a month in advance. |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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absent |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 05:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 08, 2004
Posts: 119
Status: Offline
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on tbb canadia has 21 votes under the population poll, and canadia has a population of 31 million
united states has 96 on pop poll at TBB and a pop of 294 million
we have 5 times the number of players, but 10 times the number of people, therefore you have a higher density of BBers per person, thats what i was getting at... and the spike was in quebec or ontario, right? were the pop density rivals that of the US? where almost all of canadia's residents are?
That was my point was that we don't really have that many BB players in our region.
not trying to be rude, please don't read it as such. |
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Post subject:
Posted: Nov 09, 2004 - 06:56 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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Yes, Ontario and Quebec put together make up for 60% of our population, but they're about half the size of your entire country! For example, the city i'm from is 13 hours away from where the Spike! was held, and that's only if you drive fast like us crazy Quebecers.
It doesn't matter how many Blood Bowl coaches there are per non-Blood Bowl coach. What matters is how many coaches live within a certain distance of the tournament. Toronto is indeed within an area with a high population density (for North America), but so is Chicago. You may be able to use that argument when comparing with European tournaments, but not with Canadian ones.
I agree with Galak, a major should be able to draw more than 22 coaches. |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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