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cossakking |
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Post subject: Diving Tackles
 Posted: Mar 26, 2003 - 02:01 AM
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003
Posts: 9
Status: Offline
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Before or after the dodge roll....
what if they have dodge skill? |
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Shortarse |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 26, 2003 - 05:53 AM
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Joined: Mar 17, 2003
Posts: 30
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| Before I believe |
_________________
Antoine "Shortarsed Stringfellow" Shardan. Bring out the Dwarven Amazons!!!!!
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject: Re: Diving Tackles
Posted: Mar 26, 2003 - 07:04 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
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cossakking wrote: Before or after the dodge roll....
what if they have dodge skill?
They roll Dodge first and then you get to decide whether you are using Diving Tackle.
Kept simple here are the chains that can happen, once you understand them its not that difficult.
1) Dodge roll fails, no reroll available, Dodger falls, DTer standing
2) Dodge roll fails, rerolled, Dodge roll fails, Dodger falls, DTer standing
3) Dodge roll fails, rerolled, Dodge roll succeeds, DT not used, Dodger runs away, DTer standing
4) Dodge roll fails, rerolled, Dodge roll succeeds, DT is used, Dodger falls, DTer prone
5) Dodge roll succeeds, no DT used, Dodger runs away, DTer standing
6) Dodge roll succeeds, DT used, no reroll available, Dodger falls, DTer prone
7) Dodge roll succeeds, DT used, rerolled, Dodge roll fails (either naturally or do the DT modifier still in effect), Dodger falls, DTer prone
8) Dodge roll succeeds, DT used, rerolled, Dodge roll succeeds, Dodger runs away, DTer prone
There you go ... in a simple form those are the 8 possible paths.
Galak |
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Shortarse |
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Post subject:
Posted: Mar 26, 2003 - 01:59 PM
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Joined: Mar 17, 2003
Posts: 30
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| I suppose this is like the whole piling on before or after Q |
_________________
Antoine "Shortarsed Stringfellow" Shardan. Bring out the Dwarven Amazons!!!!!
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coachblacknife |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 28, 2003 - 06:06 AM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 55
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Ashardian wrote: I suppose this is like the whole piling on before or after Q
In a way it is, that is the player chooses to use the skill.
In a way it isn't, in that the victim cannot affect the Piling On with a reroll. They CAN reroll the dodge though. In my opinion the DT should be declared before ANY die is rolled. Why? Well...
Example #1 - declaring skill AFTER roll
Skaven dodges away from Dark Elf with DT. Rolls a '3' and dodges successfully. DElf decides to use DT and as the Skaven coach has no RRs left it's a turnover. Oh look! The DElf is now on his feet again. Not much of a penalty for using it really.
Example #2 - declaring skill BEFORE roll
Skaven dodges away from Dark Elf with DT. DElf decides to use DT. Skaven rolls a '5' and dodges successfully. Another Skaven player comes along and Fouls the DElf for being cheeky...
My vote: After dodge is declared, but BEORE dice roll. Makes the game more nailbiting and less of a formality.
-Andy- |
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Tutenkharnage |
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Post subject: Re: Diving Tackles
Posted: May 28, 2003 - 06:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 620
Status: Offline
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cossakking wrote: Before or after the dodge roll....
what if they have dodge skill?
Officially? After the dodge roll; if the enemy has Dodge skill, he may re-roll again at a -2 penalty.
Locally? Before the dodge roll.
-Chet |
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coachblacknife |
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Post subject: Re: Diving Tackles
Posted: May 29, 2003 - 08:43 AM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
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Tutenkharnage wrote: Officially? After the dodge roll; if the enemy has Dodge skill, he may re-roll again at a -2 penalty.
** This is the thing that makes me think that skill is leaving the game. Maybe i'm just hardcore (or mad), but I *liked* the fact you could only measure the Pass as it was going to be made. I *like* the risk you take in calling the Diving Tackle (or Piling On) before the dice are rolled. DT is one skill in particular that - unless your opponent has no RRs or the Dodge skill - has NO risk attached to it. For a -2 penalty i'd vote that it should be riskier.
-Andy- |
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Indigo |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 29, 2003 - 09:25 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
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| I don't see any harm in measuring the range of a pass before throwing, and it often leads to tense "should I go for it to shorten the range" decisions. |
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NAF #60
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SBG |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 29, 2003 - 11:21 AM
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Joined: Feb 15, 2003
Canada
Posts: 774
Location: Canada
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Indigo wrote: I don't see any harm in measuring the range of a pass before throwing, and it often leads to tense "should I go for it to shorten the range" decisions.
And spending your re-roll on the go for it instead of the fumble !
Fred |
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Winner of Soup Bowls I, II, III (Chaos Dwarves); IV, V (Dwarves); XIII (Orcs); XIV (Dark Elves) & XVII (Chaos).
Forget the Yankees, forget the Habs: THAT'S a Dynasty!!!
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Dave |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 29, 2003 - 03:38 PM
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da Veiz-Prez
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 895
Location: Netherlands
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SBG wrote: Indigo wrote: I don't see any harm in measuring the range of a pass before throwing, and it often leads to tense "should I go for it to shorten the range" decisions.
And spending your re-roll on the go for it instead of the fumble !
Fred
I prefer passing without measuring beforehand but I don't care that much |
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First ever poster on the NAF site, Former Prez' proverbial pain in the bum and NTO-Netherlands
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject: Re: Diving Tackles
Posted: May 29, 2003 - 04:41 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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Tutenkharnage wrote: Officially? After the dodge roll; if the enemy has Dodge skill, he may re-roll again at a -2 penalty.
Locally? Before the dodge roll.
-Chet
Bah ... the skill finally was worth something with the after the dodge roll ruling. Change it to before the roll and its just another also ran skill that I wouldn't give to any player over the other skills.
Galak |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 29, 2003 - 04:49 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
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coachblacknife wrote: My vote: After dodge is declared, but BEORE dice roll. Makes the game more nailbiting and less of a formality.
-Andy-
Only if someone takes the skill. Two leagues...
League 1: 56 teams ... 2 teams have a Diving Tackle player after 12 games
League 2: 58 teams ... 2 teams have a Diving Tackle player after 15 games
Both leagues all teams are fully active and being played. Both league have Diving Tackle being declared AFTER the Dodge roll.
So I just for the life of me cannot see how making a marginal skill worse is a good idea. Like I said its only nailbiting if someone takes it, and I'm not convinced anyone would. I really don't like to have dead skills in Blood Bowl.
Galak |
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jmccubbin |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 29, 2003 - 10:39 PM
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Joined: Mar 12, 2003
Posts: 152
Status: Offline
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| Keep it after the roll, definatly not before. If it is before I will never take it. |
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Officially 0-1-1 in NAF.
At least my team looked good.
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Dave |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 29, 2003 - 10:58 PM
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da Veiz-Prez
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 895
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
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| I definately agree there |
_________________
First ever poster on the NAF site, Former Prez' proverbial pain in the bum and NTO-Netherlands
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coachblacknife |
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Post subject: Re: Diving Tackles
Posted: May 30, 2003 - 04:40 AM
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Joined: Feb 16, 2003
Posts: 55
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Okay guys, i'll just reiterate one point:
coachblacknife wrote: DT is one skill in particular that - unless your opponent has no RRs or the Dodge skill - has NO risk attached to it. For a -2 penalty i'd vote that it should be riskier.
That's a -2 to dodge with NO penalty for using the skill. That's the bit that really bites. DT was changed from making a Block to giving a -2 - I know which one I prefer!
Suggestion: reduce DT to -1, bringing it in line with Prehensile Tail.
Reason: being a Physical Trait, PT is gained on a double only and thus not ending up on theground is the balance. As an Agility Skill, DT has no real penalty for use if used after the roll is made.
Changes like deciding skill use after the roll is taking the risk out of the game. If we want BBowl to go that way, then why not remove Turnovers for failed skill use? After all, the number of times we have all planned 5, or 6 roll combinations moves only to end the turn on the first roll... |
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