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Khaine |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 04, 2005 - 08:06 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 193
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Spazzfist wrote: Khaine wrote: I guess I may be a bit optimistic in the way games can be balanced, but why couldn't certain teams just be better at certain things like they are now, but made so that almost everyone is on equal footing... Make it the Coach and not the teams sta line that makes the difference in a game.
I totally agree. You want to run and pass, play elves, you want to hit play orcs or dwarves. I don't agree with some of these proposed changes, especially what is planned for ogres. I mean, they are the biggest players in Blood Bowl (with the exception of treemen) why should they be so lousy?
I am almost wondering why they didn't look at a lower agillity option to further downgrade the ogres. Losing so many ogres seems to me as if it's a betrayal to players who actually ponied up the cash for the 12 ogres took the time to model or paint ogres or in general made the effort on the current rule set to play an ogre team when they hit the LRB as "official".
Why not make a 0-8 ogre team with a lower agillity player. Maybe even make the ogres the primary ball handlers with a small race with a 2 str and 1 agillity. I know it sounds weird, and why would you want to play a team with such crap agillity. It would keep the team a true ogre team with the ogres not outnumbered by the secondary lineup, but would make the team less of a scoring force. They would be similar to khemri with the concern of ball handling, but would be able to take punishement with the ogres to offset the many rerolls wasted on picking up balls and or moving the ball around. I know this is probably a moot point but it would be nice to see what other people think. I'm just thinking of the coaches. I really would like to see people who have purchased models not feel disapointed by a rule change. I know price is probably not at the top of the list of "balance" but it should be a consideration. |
_________________ Touch my Mini's and Pull Back A Stump!!!!!
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JumpingElf |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 04, 2005 - 08:38 AM
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Joined: Sep 27, 2005
Posts: 36
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Igor_Tahavanale |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 04, 2005 - 11:14 AM
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Joined: Mar 27, 2005
Worcestershire
Posts: 51
Location: Worcestershire
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Quote: However due to massive and I really mean massive amount of screaming by a lot of coaches (not just a handful of loud ones), these 2 teams were not deleted from the game.
And quite right too. Quote: I'm not even going to run another poll to see. I know the tide has turned ... and a lot of folks would like to see some teams trimmed. But to be honest ... you'll find a very mixed bag of folks that would MUCH rather see the Khemri or Necro team deleted than the Undead who were supposed to go in the first place.
What is the point in deleting perfectly good teams? If its balanced then leave it alone. I'm all for more, I'd like to see another Chaos variant. I just don't see the point in removing some of the choice from the game for the sake of being able to save 1 page in LRB. Thats just chop-happy game editing for the sake of it.
As for the original Snotlings on Ogres issue, anyone whosays that Snotling can't be used to win matches has obviously never put them on a pitch and let them go nuts. I was going to (eventually) play an Ogre team with Gobbos, and I'll still do it with Snotlings - they're even madder! |
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Khaine |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 04, 2005 - 01:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 193
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JumpingElf wrote: Quote:
Why not make a 0-8 ogre team with a lower agillity player. Maybe even make the ogres the primary ball handlers with a small race with a 2 str and 1 agillity. I know it sounds weird, and why would you want to play a team with such crap agillity. It would keep the team a true ogre team with the ogres not outnumbered by the secondary lineup, but would make the team less of a scoring force. They would be similar to khemri with the concern of ball handling, but would be able to take punishement with the ogres to offset the many rerolls wasted on picking up balls and or moving the ball around. I know this is probably a moot point but it would be nice to see what other people think. I'm just thinking of the coaches.
Ok! It´s an arguement if you say: They pay for their Ogres, so they want to play with all of them. I understand that it is very frustrating paying a lot of money for the Minis and the rulesupdate don´t allow to use them. But the question is: How can it function? ![Neutral](modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_neutral.gif) Too many Ogres are damned bashing force ![Pushback/Pow](modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_powdodge.gif) and together with Gobbos an experienced Team is hard to stop. Your suggestion to use a small race with 2 str and 1 ag is a nice idea, but can´t be realized, because there is no race in the warhammer world with such attributes. So there is no other way to handle it like the way the new rules do, I think. ![Neutral](modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_neutral.gif)
Hmmm I thought they were keeping warhammer and blodbowl worlds sort of seperated. |
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 04, 2005 - 01:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3954
Location: Canada
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Khaine wrote: Hmmm I thought they were keeping warhammer and blodbowl worlds sort of seperated.
It seems that they wuill quote the Warhammer world and BB fluff whenever it suits their arguments, but conveniently overlook it when it does not..... |
_________________ #1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 04, 2005 - 03:18 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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JumpingElf wrote: But never forget the background of the game and there are no great Khemri teams in Bloobowl history.
Apart from the Champions of Death, a Khemri team if ever there was one. |
_________________ _____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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JumpingElf |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 04, 2005 - 04:19 PM
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Joined: Sep 27, 2005
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Darkson wrote: JumpingElf wrote: But never forget the background of the game and there are no great Khemri teams in Bloobowl history.
Apart from the Champions of Death, a Khemri team if ever there was one.
A Khemriteam where Ghouls and Vampires play (1st and 2nd Edition stuff told so ..."Did you know" stuff)? In these days only "Undead"-Teams existed. There was no difference between Khemri, Nekromantic and Undead, they were all the same. |
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Paul |
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Posted: Oct 04, 2005 - 06:08 PM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Canada
Posts: 423
Location: Canada
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Quote: A Khemriteam where Ghouls and Vampires play (1st and 2nd Edition stuff told so ..."Did you know" stuff)? In these days only "Undead"-Teams existed. There was no difference between Khemri, Nekromantic and Undead, they were all the same.
well, you can also argue that the 2nd Ed Undead was all Skeletons, which pretty much screams Khemri |
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JumpingElf |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 02:33 AM
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Joined: Sep 27, 2005
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Paul wrote: Quote: A Khemriteam where Ghouls and Vampires play (1st and 2nd Edition stuff told so ..."Did you know" stuff)? In these days only "Undead"-Teams existed. There was no difference between Khemri, Nekromantic and Undead, they were all the same.
well, you can also argue that the 2nd Ed Undead was all Skeletons, which pretty much screams Khemri
You are right! The Teamlist of the "Champions of Death" in "Starplayers" is full of Skeletons and Mummys, but why? They made no Rules for Ghouls, Zombies, Flesh Golems, Wights and Vampires in the 2nd Edition. You can take Undead-Stars like "Frank N Stein" and "Wilhelm Chaney" in this Team if you want to and this sounds in my Ears only like "Undead". |
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biggy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 06:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 13, 2003
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Ok! It´s an arguement if you say: They pay for their Ogres, so they want to play with all of them. I understand that it is very frustrating paying a lot of money for the Minis and the rulesupdate don´t allow to use them. But the question is: How can it function?
Well as a coach that has got a 10 ogre team, I'd be pretty pissed to see the rules change to ban them. At present I have four fully painted (to golden demon standard) warhammer and 40k armies that I can no longer use legally because of GW's 'let's change the rules and make 'em buy more stuff' policy . Bloodbowl has thusfar not succumbed to that (at least not to the degree of the other GW games) and it is one of the reasons that many people who no longer play the other games continue to play bloodbowl.
As for the ogres' playability, I just got well and truly creamed at MOAB by everyone . The only game I won was against goblins and that was a close run thing. Dwarves just smash ogres (block takes care of the ogres and tackle does the goblins). Can't we just leave the teams alone for five minutes??
Andrew |
_________________ "Crush your enemies. See them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women!"
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 10:59 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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The LRB Ogre team is horribly broken in the long run. Since the new rules are supposed to work perpetually they had to be changed.
I'm sorry people got screwed by the change - but the LRB roster was ill conceived and need fixing. IMO it should never have become official. |
_________________ Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
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Khaine |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 11:04 AM
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Joined: Sep 06, 2003
Posts: 193
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Doubleskulls wrote: The LRB Ogre team is horribly broken in the long run. Since the new rules are supposed to work perpetually they had to be changed.
I'm sorry people got screwed by the change - but the LRB roster was ill conceived and need fixing. IMO it should never have become official.
I would tend to agree with this statment. Whena team becomes "official" it should be because it will not be changed for quite a while. ![Orc](modules/PNphpBB2/images/smiles/icon_orc.gif) |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 07:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 13, 2003
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Look, it's all well and good to say "gee sorry about that" but with the bloody ridiculous GW prices you're basically saying "ha ha you just pissed a couple of hundred bucks up against a wall".
"They shouldn't have been approved in the first place" doesn't cut it either. I've just busted my proverbial getting eight ogres painted for MOAB and have two more on the way, plus the goblins now painted that are to be useless under vault rules. Shall I just put the whole team into the cupboard next to my multiple unplayable GW armies?
Thanks Guys your sympathy really makes up for all the money and time.
NOT.
Andrew |
_________________ "Crush your enemies. See them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women!"
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 07:39 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
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ABigwood wrote: plus the goblins now painted that are to be useless under vault rules. I have to ask why?
I would allow any coach that wanted to use Goblins for Snotling minis to do so. Even a GW tournament would allow this as they are still GW and still easily representive of the player they are for.
I really don't see a reason why Goblin figures cannot be used as Snotlings when this team is played ... and yes I am very serious about this.
As for your 4 extra Ogres ... now those I am sorry with. I have two teams with 12 Ogres each so I have enough to field 4 Ogre teams now ... I understand where you are coming from.
But minis purchased should not be the driving force for making rules for a team especially when said the rules around the team have changed and playtesting has shown the team to have serious long term issues.
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Paul |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 05, 2005 - 08:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2005
Canada
Posts: 423
Location: Canada
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Quote: But minis purchased should not be the driving force for making rules for a team especially when said the rules around the team have changed and playtesting has shown the team to have serious long term issues.
yea, it sucks that you've got the extra ogres, and its making me reconsider buying more Ogres for my team, but you can't say "I bought all these, why can't I use them?" cause if thats the case, I've got 2 full skaven teams, change them so I can have 8 Gutter Runners and 2 Rat Ogres. |
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