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Post subject:
 Posted: May 04, 2006 - 04:18 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 1146
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| Don't forget also that Jay played one of Rob's games and there was a bonus or two in that game alone. The system I use is not just about winning or loosing but how well you win or loose. Loosing by 1 is a lot better than loosing by two or three. Anyone can loose by one. You have to have been having a pretty bad game or have been well outplayed to have been beaten by 2 or more. Winning by one point is not any better than a tie, yippee you got a couple better lucky rolls than your opponent. The 50 - 20 -10 system put way too much focus on the win and awards tactics like stalling because you only need the one point win. The 50 - 30 - 20 system keeps more people in the game "mathematically" longer and is more focused on how well a game is won or how badly it is lost. |
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Brian St.James
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 07:13 AM
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Joined: Nov 23, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 550
Location: United States of America
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yeah but a loser who keeps it close and gets cas can get more points than a person who tied.
regardless, a player who forces a tie played a better game than someone who loses.
loss should be 10pts. |
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BB_Babe |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 08:10 AM
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Joined: Sep 23, 2005
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ryltar |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 08:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 28, 2006
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CyberHare wrote: Winning by one point is not any better than a tie, yippee you got a couple better lucky rolls than your opponent.
Just consider though, dwarves, and other slower teams are going to have a tough time posting more than 2 points at ALL let alone over their opponent. Thus a dwarf team that plays standard dwarf tactics and comes out with the 1-0 win is penalized for being a dwarf team. |
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MightyQ |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 08:53 AM
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Joined: Jul 16, 2004
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Kind of also depends on the races they played too... Your not going to get many casualties playing Orcs & Dwarfs as you would playing AV7's...
I lost to Dwarf 0-2 (0-2) but then I got to play Woodies 3-1 (2-1), Skaven 2-1 (3-1) and Lizardmen 1-2 (2-1)
Maybe NAF needs to put out a standard point system...
I run heroclix tournaments, it's usually only 3 rounds, but it goes by w/l then points are used for seedings... If at the end of 3 rounds and 2 teams are 3-0, they play off...
I was a bit confused in my 1st NAF tournament after 4 rounds, one team was 4-0-0, 2-1-1 and one was 2-2-0 the 2-1-1 lost to the 4-0-0 but because of points they played in the championship, so there remained 2 undefeated teams 5-0-0 & 3-2-0 that never played each other...
I am not picking on this previous tournaments point system, using it as an example...
team a goes 5-0-0 wins every game 1-0 (0-1) they get 250 pts
team b goes 3-0-2 wins every game 2-0 (1-0) loses 0-1 (1-0) they get 290 pts
team c goes 3-1-1 wins every game 2-0 (1-0) ties 1-1 (1-0) loses 0-1 (0-1) they get 290pts
so its "possible" for a team to go 3-0-2 or 3-1-1 and get more points then a team 5-0-0 and the 5-0-0 team be out of the championship round...
its possible to lose 0-1 (1-0) get 40pts
tie 1-1 (0-0) only get 30pts...
using 10 points for a loss still wont affect the top scenerio 250pts, 270pts, 280pts...
Lose 30pts, tie 30pts for the bottom scenerio...
Maybe it's not the w/t/l points but the bonus points in question... |
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Rune_Master |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 09:31 AM
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Joined: Apr 02, 2005
Posts: 196
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Perhaps the thing to do is not use points accumulated as the first criteria for seedings/finishes. Use W/L/T as the first criteria. That way, there is no chance of a 4/0/1 coach beating out a 5/0/0 coach. But, if there are two 5/0/0 coaches, you then go to points accumulated to determine who finished higher.
The same applies to the spoon. This way no coach who went 1/3/1 can get the spoon when there was a coach who went 0/5/0. And, if there is more than one 0/5/0 coach, the one with the lowest points accumulated gets the spoon.
Of course, further tie breakers may be necessary, but those can be figured out tourney to tourney. |
_________________
Erik Grogswiller
"Ho! stand to your flagons steady!
'Tis all we have left to prize.
A drink to the dead already,--
Hurrah for the next that dies."
- ancient Dwarf toast
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MightyQ |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 09:42 AM
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Joined: Jul 16, 2004
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CyberHare wrote: The system I use is not just about winning or loosing but how well you win or loose.
But isnt winning the main point ???
CyberHare wrote: Loosing by 1 is a lot better than loosing by two or three. Anyone can loose by one.
A loss is a loss... It all depends on the races...
ex. Down 1-2 Norse have a chance with a pick up, handoff and pass to tie on their turn 8, they fail the pick up, the Gutter Runner swoops in picks up the ball and scores final 1-3... So in a way by your wording, I should have never tried and protected the ball and just took the 1-2 loss instead of trying for a tie...
CyberHare wrote: You have to have been having a pretty bad game or have been well outplayed to have been beaten by 2 or more.
Well my Wood Elf opponent sure did... I pow'd his wardancers almost every hit and he couldnt knock down any of my players, he was soon outnumbered but he never gave up... He was still leaping into the cage trying to get that ball... He lost 3-1 but he sure gave it his all...
CyberHare wrote: Winning by one point is not any better than a tie, yippee you got a couple better lucky rolls than your opponent.
Still lost on why winning isnt more important ???
CyberHare wrote: The 50 - 20 -10 system put way too much focus on the win and awards tactics like stalling because you only need the one point win. The 50 - 30 - 20 system keeps more people in the game "mathematically" longer and is more focused on how well a game is won or how badly it is lost.
But depending upon the race your are playing stalling is a very viable tactic, something that took me a long time to understand... Scoring on turn 7 with your opponent having turns 7 & 8 with skaven, lizardmen or wood elves, giving them a chance to score or scoring on turn 8, giving them only turn 8 and hoping for injury time to score...
I saw a game last night on fumbbl where the player was up 1-0 his turn 8 he could have scored and his opponent had turn 8 to hit him, he dodged all his players away from his opponent and decided not to score and give his opponent the chance of injuring his team on the kickoff...
Which could be used in a tournament game especially if you are armor 7 and there is a possible chance of your opponent causing 3-4 casualties on his final turn of the kickoff and getting the bonus points with 3 block and a blitz...
I thought one of the main reasons for naf tournaments was because it was hard to get people together in real life to play a full season, then playoffs without real life effecting games not being played and in one weekend you play a season so to speak then have the championship in the last round... |
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 12:10 PM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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CyberHare wrote: Don't forget also that Jay played one of Rob's games and there was a bonus or two in that game alone.
What has this got to do with anything? My name was not mentioned before or after this little extraneous tidbit of information. All I know is...if not for a single roll of a 1, I start the tourney with a 3-1 win. It didn't happen and I lost...so be it. Fact is, record nonwithstanding, I was competitive in every game I played.
Also, since you found it necessary to point out that Jay played one of my games and garnered some bonus points...I hope that game doesn't get included in my NAF rating...I don't want any undue bonus points to sneak in there.
Sorry Jay...you were 0-1 in the NA Cup.
-Rob |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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MightyQ |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 01:44 PM
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Joined: Jul 16, 2004
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| Jay also played a game for me, not sure how that turned our yet... |
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 02:26 PM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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Right...I forgot about that one...I think Jay tied that game.
Jay...that makes 0 Wins, 1 Loss, and 1 Tie.
Bill...Brian will need to determine what type of bonus points had for that round. (Somehow it is relevant in the general discussion of the Wooden Spoon.)
-RobO |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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MightyQ |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 02:34 PM
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Joined: Jul 16, 2004
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| Jay should get the Rock award for being there and filling in when needed, Val too... |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 04:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 1146
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MightyQ wrote: But isnt winning the main point ???
No. Winning being the main point is exactly what I try to avoid. As the saying goes...
It's not if you win or loose but how you play the game
Loosing a game but sticking it out and never giving up is a valuable task as far as I'm concerned and something to be encouraged. Simply winning a game by 1 and then stalling, while yes I agree is sometimes a viable an necessary tactic, is no fun at all for your opponent. Yes there are some racial variables but this is Blood Bowl, not chess. Some races are meant to have a harder time of it than others. The rules are clearly layed out before the event and I've yet to see this rule set hurt the amount of dwarves at an event 
At the end of the day I hold a tournament to have a gathering of friends that all enjoy playing Blood Bowl. Finding winners or loosers is simply a by-product of the event. The purpose is to get together, have a good time, good beers and good laughes. That being the case I prefer a points system there leans towards the generous as opposed to win specific. |
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Brian St.James
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MightyQ |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jul 16, 2004
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Status: Offline
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CyberHare wrote: MightyQ wrote: But isnt winning the main point ???
No. Winning being the main point is exactly what I try to avoid. As the saying goes...
It's not if you win or loose but how you play the game
Yes, heard that saying alot and it's mainly used for little kids so their feeling aren't hurt when they lose, this isnt little league, it's BLOOD BOWL !!!  But I would say the majority of us are much older, some more competitive and joined the NAF for coach ratings and standings... Play tic tac toe, there is barely ever is a winner or loser...
CyberHare wrote: Loosing a game but sticking it out and never giving up is a valuable task as far as I'm concerned and something to be encouraged. Simply winning a game by 1 and then stalling, while yes I agree is sometimes a viable an necessary tactic, is no fun at all for your opponent. Yes there are some racial variables but this is Blood Bowl, not chess. Some races are meant to have a harder time of it than others. The rules are clearly layed out before the event and I've yet to see this rule set hurt the amount of dwarves at an event
At the end of the day I hold a tournament to have a gathering of friends that all enjoy playing Blood Bowl. Finding winners or loosers is simply a by-product of the event. The purpose is to get together, have a good time, good beers and good laughes. That being the case I prefer a points system there leans towards the generous as opposed to win specific.
Maybe I was totally mislead for NAF tournaments, I want to play the best and learn... I know I didnt spend time driving, playing sometimes 10 hour days just sitting around playing games that don't seem to mean anything just to have laughs and beers (dont drink by the way)...
I enjoy meeting other blood bowlers, match faces with names that I have chatted with on NAF or Fumbbl... It's a game, a competitive game, maybe someday it will have a spot in the Olympics and I would say it is very much like chess... Each move and positioning of players is very strategic... |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 06:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 1146
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MightyQ wrote: Yes, heard that saying alot and it's mainly used for little kids so their feeling aren't hurt when they lose,this isnt little league, it's BLOOD BOWL !!! But I would say the majority of us are much older, some more competitive and joined the NAF for coach ratings and standings... Play tic tac toe, there is barely ever is a winner or loser...
Luckily I have this more interesting game called Blood Bowl to play |
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Brian St.James
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 04, 2006 - 07:22 PM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
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CyberHare wrote: Luckily I have this more interesting game called Blood Bowl to play
Yeah, I've heard of that one. I heard that it's like chess..... only different. |
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#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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