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Rune_Master |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 02:02 PM
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Joined: Apr 02, 2005
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Darkson wrote:
Now you're treading on dangerous ground.
Why would you say that? I'm just posed a question and tried to back it with my opinion, albeit a newbie's opinion. Did I offend? 
Quote: Perhaps people need to stop focussing on winning so much, and just go for the social atmosphere.
Obviously, you haven't seen my tournament record. I'm quickly gaining on Rob in spoons!  Not to mention that I played my first, and only, tournaments with Amazons. Not exactly a team for a newbie. But still a fun team.
Quote: Bottom line, if you want to play a competative team, don't take Vampires. If you want to take a Vampire team, don't complain because it's not competative.
With that, my new mission is to find a way to make them competitive. Nuffle knows how, especially for me, but I won't fail due to lack of effort!  |
_________________
Erik Grogswiller
"Ho! stand to your flagons steady!
'Tis all we have left to prize.
A drink to the dead already,--
Hurrah for the next that dies."
- ancient Dwarf toast
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 02:12 PM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
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Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 03:24 PM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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Clan-Skaven wrote:
"I don't care what the fluff is, I'm going to prove the system wrong & play Orcs as a passing team. I'm gonna show you that Orcs can pass just as well as any other team!" ---that was a quote (or close to it of a newbie BBowler) He did try it & he failed miseribly.  
Rod.
Orcs have AG3 Throwers and AG3 Blitzers...that makes for an average passing game. Elves they are not...and the Gutter Runner makes The Skaven better because of AG4...other than that Orcs are just as good as anyone else at passing and dodging. To say that they can't is fluff...not math. |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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Clan_Skaven |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 03:28 PM
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Joined: Aug 19, 2003
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Posts: 2604
Location: Niagara Falls ON, Canada
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KarlLagerbottom wrote: Clan-Skaven wrote:
"I don't care what the fluff is, I'm going to prove the system wrong & play Orcs as a passing team. I'm gonna show you that Orcs can pass just as well as any other team!" ---that was a quote (or close to it of a newbie BBowler) He did try it & he failed miseribly.
Rod.
Orcs have AG3 Throwers and AG3 Blitzers...that makes for an average passing game. Elves they are not...and the Gutter Runner makes The Skaven better because of AG4...other than that Orcs are just as good as anyone else at passing and dodging. To say that they can't is fluff...not math.
Ya but when your fastest guys are 6 MA & theres only 4 of them (unless u have gobbo's) & none of them have accesss to AGI skills (other than again Gobbos) so I disagree Orcs are not as good at passing as Humans.
Rod. |
_________________
"2006 SPIKE Champion!"
"Death-Bowl IV & V, Most Casualties!, Death-Bowl VI Best Team!"
"2008 Dagger Bowl Champion"
Host of the Warpstone Cup, Q'ermitt Bowl & the Hope Bowl
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 03:30 PM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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Its give and take dude...sure the human catchers are fast...but they are str 2.
It's a different type of passing team, but they can pass effectively if they need to. |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 04:00 PM
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Darkson wrote: KarlLagerbottom wrote: Darkson wrote:
But the original Lord wasn't capped, he could happily earn SPP like any other player.
You're right...but didn't they grow at the slower "big guy" rate?
There was no "slower big guy rate" when the Vampire Lord was on the Vampire team (2003 or there abouts).
The first Citadel Journel Blood Bowl Compendium detailed the Vampire Team. This was the also the spot where they discussed the Big Guy's earning points at half the normal rate. This vampire team did include the Vampire Lord, and included the following special rule. (On page 40)
Other Special Rules: Although Vampires and Vampire Lords are not Big Guys as such, they still earn star player points at half the nromal rate (the Undead are such slow learners!), and they can use their doubles to get rid of their negative "Off For a Bite" skill. Vampires and Vampire Lords may take skills from the General, Agility, and Strength categories. Human thralls are treated as human Lineman for the purposes of gaining skills, etc. |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 05:30 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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| I think Darkson is referring to the LRB team laid out in one of the early(?) BB Mags |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 06:09 PM
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Doubleskulls wrote: I think Darkson is referring to the LRB team laid out in one of the early(?) BB Mags
Darkson was "correcting" my statement...so I am simply showing him that I remembered correctly.
EDIT:
See???
Darkson wrote: KarlLagerbottom wrote: Darkson wrote:
But the original Lord wasn't capped, he could happily earn SPP like any other player.
You're right...but didn't they grow at the slower "big guy" rate?
There was no "slower big guy rate" when the Vampire Lord was on the Vampire team (2003 or there abouts). |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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Doubleskulls |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 08:56 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
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| Yeah, but you are discussing two different Vampire teams. Yours a 3rd Citadel Journal one, his the "original" LRB version. |
_________________
Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 01, 2006 - 09:38 PM
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Doubleskulls wrote: Yeah, but you are discussing two different Vampire teams. Yours a 3rd Citadel Journal one, his the "original" LRB version.
Yes, but given that he was controverting my comment...the context of the conversation was the team that I was talking about.
He stated that when the Vampire Lord was on the team, there was no different SPP scale for Big Guys. I am now merely saying that he was incorrect and providing a reference that reinforces that.
Now that that is cleared up, perhaps you should let him respond. |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 02, 2006 - 03:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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And the one you're commenting on was a house-rule from the 3rd edition era, whereas the one that I'm using (and the original poster) was the experimental one for the LRB era - 2 different teams.
If we're using teams from different eras, it could be argued that Orcs are as effective a passing team as humans because they had the same stat line under 2nd edition. |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 02, 2006 - 03:57 AM
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Rune_Master wrote: Darkson wrote:
Now you're treading on dangerous ground.
Why would you say that? I'm just posed a question and tried to back it with my opinion, albeit a newbie's opinion. Did I offend?
No offence - I'm guessing you missed all the big discussions about the PBBL rules, and wheter or not we should have a 2nd set of rules published just for tournaments (which I can't remember if it was here or one of the other BB forums).
Basically, some people argued that BB tournaments would be better if certain rosters, which are underpowered in tourney settings (Vampire, Chaos, Rotters, etc) were either given a boost, or had different roster makeups for league and tournaments. Others argued that if a Tourney Organizer thinks that, say Vampires, should be in the top tier, then it's their right to change the rules for their tournament in any way they seem fit.
Hope that clears it up. |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Rune_Master |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 02, 2006 - 06:50 AM
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Joined: Apr 02, 2005
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Darkson wrote:
No offence - I'm guessing you missed all the big discussions about the PBBL rules, and wheter or not we should have a 2nd set of rules published just for tournaments (which I can't remember if it was here or one of the other BB forums).
You would be correct in that assumption. Just wanted to clarify with you, weren't sure where you were coming from. No biggie.
Unfortunately, this thread has degraded a little from it's original intention.
My original question was asking why the Vampire Lord was removed from the Vampire team roster. If it was determined to be too unbalanced within the structure of the game at that time, why wasn't it balanced as opposed to being removed? I agree that the character was probably too strong, so there is no need to continue that debate. I just wanted to know why it was removed as opposed to being fixed.  |
_________________
Erik Grogswiller
"Ho! stand to your flagons steady!
'Tis all we have left to prize.
A drink to the dead already,--
Hurrah for the next that dies."
- ancient Dwarf toast
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 02, 2006 - 11:17 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Because to be fixed it would have needed to be given a negatrait (Bloodlust), lost all it's skills, and reduced to ST4.
Oops! We've got a Vamp! |
_________________
_____ and rankings - that is all
#27 of the "24 club" (due to some dodgy accounting)
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Rune_Master |
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Post subject:
Posted: Jun 02, 2006 - 11:55 AM
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Darkson wrote: Because to be fixed it would have needed to be given a negatrait (Bloodlust), lost all it's skills, and reduced to ST4.
Oops! We've got a Vamp!
I'll buy that, how about if the Lord was identical to a vamp, but without OFAB? Basically, because as a Lord, he is able to control that negative aspect of his being?
VAMP - 6/4/4/8 - Regen, OFAB, HG, Undead - 110K
LORD - 6/4/4/8 - Regen, HG, Undead - >110K?
How much would not having OFAB be worth? |
_________________
Erik Grogswiller
"Ho! stand to your flagons steady!
'Tis all we have left to prize.
A drink to the dead already,--
Hurrah for the next that dies."
- ancient Dwarf toast
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