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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Oct 11, 2004 - 11:18 PM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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Posts: 1148
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
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Zombie-
I'm guessing that you played Halflings in a non NAF tournament, as I only see Norse teams associated with your name on here. I do not, or did not, underestimate the team and that is why I chose them in the first place. They are certainly not the best tourney team, but they should be fun. However, my play-testing has has not showed them to be at all promising. Sure I can chalk some of that up to my inexperience with the team, but when this supposedly unbalanced team can't even dodge out of trouble...what else do I have to count on?
It took me 4 games just to score my first touchdown. I'm sorry but I'm not THAT bad.
I'd also say that the Ogre is the best thrower. I am sure you will come up with some biased statistical analysis to refute that, but the 1 in 6 bonehead is alot less troublesome than the 3 in 6 to miss an entire half and another 3 in 6 roll to get up from a prone position. Also, the extra agility helps the accuracy roll...this turns out to be pretty big when it could mean life and death for the 'Fling involved.
I don't see Da_Scum's decision to purchase the Star Troll as any hardship. Think of it as an upgrade to the rookie troll. the Gobbos are so cheap that he can afford the inflated price. Using the star troll is akin to the 'Flings using Deeproot. Imagine having a Tree that will show up for the start of every game and also have Block to make his STR 7 Blocks that much more relaiable?
Deeproot's obvious advantages don't make the rookie Treeman suck. Just as the Start Troll doesn't make the rookie troll suck. There are positives and negatives to each...but overall the Gobs are the better roster.
+1 to the MA, +1 AV, Trolls dumb but there every time...keep a gobbo close and you have less expensive ogre.
Also, you ask me if I have played Gobbos, as you feel that they are even harder to throw. I don't know if I agree, but for the sake of argument lets say they are. That extra movement and relative durability make the gobs more flexible. And I hate to say this again, but their Big Guy is guarenteed to be there for the start of the game. Thus OVERALL they are a better team.
My statement that prompted your reply was not specific to throwing...it was regarding the over-all deficiencies of the'Fling team. This team without General Access for the big guys has to be very good AND very lucky to compete at all.
I would say that many people would site Galak as a very good Halfling player, and has has some success at tournements. Take into consideration then that he has a ranking of 147.66 and world-wide is the 4th ranked Halfilng Player. That means that there are only three teams ANYWHERE that are above the 150.0 baseline score. 3 teams out of 25 ranked teams in the world. If you use Norse as a team for comparison...there are 50 Norse teams ranked...the top 38 are ranked above the 150 baseline.
Whew...see I feel better already!  Got some of that off my chest...see you just had to let me rant a bit...now I'm all set to lose everygame with a cheery smile on my face. 
See you all there...just don't lose. You don't want to be the team to lose to the 'Flings.
-Rob
P.S. Zombie...I hope we play again at the Death Bowl...perhaps your confidence in my team will somehow lead me to victory. |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 12, 2004 - 12:20 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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| Check your inbox. I sent you a PM while you were typing this. |
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They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 12, 2004 - 01:03 AM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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KarlLagerbottom wrote: I'm guessing that you played Halflings in a non NAF tournament, as I only see Norse teams associated with your name on here.
I played them in a league, and ended up with a .500 record (3-3). I would have done better had i actually used money to freeboot the chef and/or the star player treeman in those games, but i was saving money for the playoffs all along. I got eliminated in the first round of playoffs because i underestimated my opponent, having beat him 3-0 in the season, and didn't spent money on a star treeman for that game (electing to instead save cash so that i could field him in both the semi-final and final), and because my master chef stole 0 reroll in first half (out of a possibility of 3) and 1 in second half, and both my treemen didn't show up for the first half. Still, it was a tight game that i only lost 2-1. I think i had about 200k left in my treasury after that game.
Quote: I'd also say that the Ogre is the best thrower.
The only team that can throw players with ogres is a chaos team that freebooted a goblin star player. Since the star player can't use team rerolls for catching the ball and for landing, that makes at least 4 rolls (catch, bonehead, pass, land) and maybe more (up to 3 go for its) without a single team reroll backing them up. I'd much rather throw flings with a treeman.
Quote: I don't see Da_Scum's decision to purchase the Star Troll as any hardship.
Oh really? To field this guy, he dropped one rookie troll, fungus the loon (another ST6 player), one goblin and two rerolls. I talked to Da_Scum a lot during the tournament (heck, i was staying at his place) and he told me many times that the only reason he took the star troll was so that he could have any hope of throwing successfully.
Quote: +1 to the MA, +1 AV
Because of that, they cost 10k more. If i had the choice between a normal halfling team and one where the players have +1 MA and +1 AV and cost 40k, i'd take the normal one. Over 14 players, that's 140k extra to spend elsewhere, which is huge.
Quote: Trolls dumb but there every time...keep a gobbo close and you have less expensive ogre.
Ask any goblin coach. They would take treemen over trolls anytime. The trolls' two negative skills are huge drawbacks, especially when using TTM.
Quote: Thus OVERALL they are a better team.
The ONLY advantage that goblins have over halflings are their secret weapons. In a tournament like the Death Bowl where they can't take them, there's NO comparison. At the Death Bowl, i would rank goblins in 17th place out of all 19 races (only above chaos and nurgle), and i would probably rank halflings somewhere around 5th place.
Quote: This team without General Access for the big guys has to be very good AND very lucky to compete at all.
Like i said, there are very good skill choices for treemen in the strength category. Give both your treemen guard and multiple block and see how powerful that is. I'd much rather play halflings in a tournament where treemen can take 2 strength skills each than in a tournament where they can take one general skill. The fact that you can get traits and stat increases is also a HUGE bonus for a team where normal skills pretty much suck.
Quote: There are only three teams ANYWHERE that are above the 150.0 baseline score. 3 teams out of 25 ranked teams in the world. If you use Norse as a team for comparison...there are 50 Norse teams ranked...the top 38 are ranked above the 150 baseline.
A very large part of the reason for this is that because of the myth that halflings and goblins are not good, most people who bring them to tournament aren't there to win. Also, those coaches often aren't very good in the first place and are taking those teams because they feel they don't stand a chance anyway so it doesn't matter and/or because they feel it gives them an excuse afterwards for the losses they will undoubtedly take.
If people who played halflings played them competitively, you'd see them way higher in the rankings. The only teams that could really give them a hard time in tournaments are dwarves and chaos dwarves. Playing against anybody else and not missing both treemen for the first half, they should actually be favorite to win their games. Sure you've got the badlucky game (1 in 4) where both your treemen are missing for the first half, and you'll probably lose that one. But that's true of any team. If there's one thing i've learned in tournaments, it's that when you're out of luck, there's often nothing you can do about it, no matter what team you play.
Quote: See you all there...just don't lose. You don't want to be the team to lose to the 'Flings.
Actually, i don't want to be the team that meets the flings. There are only two races that i'm really scared of in tournaments : wood elves and halflings. Those two are really tough to beat. Wood elves because i hate wardancers and halflings because i usually take about 3 rerolls and it really hurts to lose them all. I'm also not big on tackle and that hurts me against both of those. |
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They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 12, 2004 - 06:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3954
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Wow Rob,
Maybe you should start you own Halfling Coach support group! 
Or Zombie, maybe you can "fix it" so that you and Rob match up in the first game, then you can throw the game and boost his confidence! 
I am not going to get roped into this whole goblin/halfling debate, but I play orcs and have also played an all-goblin team (not in tourneys though). As such I can relate how frustrating this tactic can be. But the thing to remember when playing a team like halflings is that you shouldn't expect to win! You are playing the underdogs. You know that, so accept it!
You talked about losing sportsmanship scores, and I hope that you were not serious. Laugh when they go "squish" but laugh harder when they actually score. Win or lose, it is still a great game! (And any time that you feel that your team is letting you down, just remember what my team did to me at the Spike!) 
Look forward to seeing you there (and getting some payback!)
Spazz |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 12, 2004 - 06:05 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3954
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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Rob,
Haved you read the halfling playbook in the 2003 annual? I can bring it up if you don't have it.
Spazz |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 12, 2004 - 06:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
Posts: 1146
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If you really think it's going to be that bad you don't have to take the Flings. I only said it would be interesting to see how they would do in the DB. In reality though I don't think they will do that bad. I tend to agree with Zombie that they are one of the better TR 100 teams and the fact that you get to roll for, stack and pick who gets skills in this tourney will only work to your advantage. If you really feel that you're getting the short end of the stick though there is one last thing I can maybe do. The morning of the tournament I'll put it to a vote to change Take Root to the following.
Code: Take Root
Before taking any action roll a D6. On a 2 or more, the player may take his action as normal. On a 1, the Player "takes root", and his MA is considered 0 until a touchdown is scored or the half ends, or he is knocked over (and no, players from his own team may not try and Block him in order to try to knock him over!). A player that has taken root may not Go For It, be pushed back for any reason, or use any skill that would allow him to move out of his current square. The player may block adjacent players without following-up.
I'll have to put it to a vote because it too close to the tourney to just change the rules now. |
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Brian St.James
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 12, 2004 - 10:11 AM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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Posts: 1148
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
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Brian-
To be honest, I'd rather not have you even put it up for a vote at this point. I sincerely appreciate the consideration, but then you open up the Vault debate and we can do without that.
I appologize for my rant, but that's really all it was. I had just had two really miserable games on FUMBBL and saw the post about how bad it will be for CD's for them to lose General access, and had to respond. (It was basically a ..."grass is always greener" comment.)
Of course Zombie had to jump in and disect my statement, and being in the frame of mind that I was in, responded in kind.
Zombie-
I have since read your PM and appreciate your advice, but there are still a few points that I disagree with. (Moreso in your most recent post than in your PM. Actually some of what you had there I had considered already...unfortunately my online experiences have not gone over too well. I guess some of the fun factor of the 'Flings is lost on-line when you are just playing with preset images instead of the figs that you convert/paint in preperation for the face to face games.)
I am actually looking forward to seeing you guys again and seeing what I can do with the Flings. Face to face games with the little guys are always more fun.
Craig-
You are the first on the hit list my friend. If you bring those woodies...you better bring some Woodglue for your sell-out Treeman! he will feel the wrath of the Old School Treemen.
Support group aye? I'll show you support group...(Actally there may e something already out there for Performance Anxiety, maybe I can get some corporate sponsorship from Zoloft or something. ) |
_________________
Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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Six_Foot_Dwarf |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 12, 2004 - 06:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 25, 2003
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I kind of agree with Karl, Brian. A. changing the rules so close to the tourney and/or the day of the tourney is bad mojo and B. I'd personally rather have a rule-set that's as close to the "Book" as is possible. I definately like the thought of a tourney-with-a-twist (which a Death Bowl game certainly is!) but deviating too far from the LRB leaves people who've played for YEARS wondering what is what. Taking General skills from big boys is bad enough...creating rules to make Halflings more playable is insane! haha They're Halfers...they suck. That's what they do.
I differ from Karl and Zombie in that I think Halflings are ass from TR 100 all the way to TR 500! No matter what skills you have, you're still AV6 and super slow. hehe If both trees miss, there won't be a team left for them to come back to in the 2nd. And whereas every team has another team or two that "has their number", just about everyone has a rookie Halfer team's number. Norse/Dwarves/CDs will absolutely trounce 'em, Humans/Rats will beat 'em up AND light them up, and Woodies will outright blow 'em out with no fear of retribution.
But I guess it IS all about having a good time, and there really is NO pressure playing Halfers. In a tourney like this they'd be fun if you don't mind spending a weekend watching your well-painted figures fly into the Red Box faster than you can unpack more. In a tourney like the Spike! it's just a waste of $60. haha |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 12, 2004 - 07:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 12, 2003
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Ok no change for this year. Just trying to help.
Rob I'm going to laugh out loud if after all that the halflings do better than you I honestly think that if Rob plays his cards right he could make it to the Championship round. That round of BB&'s is going to throw a curve at everyone so it'll be an interesting time seeing how everything plays out.
All right that's enough time wasted for me. I still have a lot of work to do to get ready. |
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Brian St.James
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BUD |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 13, 2004 - 09:44 AM
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Joined: Mar 24, 2003
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well Brian and other fellow Deathbowl attendee's that actually know who the heck I am, I will not beable to attend this coming weekend as moola has gotten in the way... my lack of employment has left me rather dry on that front so I gotta say no to geeking. Next year for sure though! I plan on being a student so I won't have money anyways, whats another debt right?
good luck to all and may the TBBF bring er where she belongs! (to my hands) |
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- Bud
"King of bloodbowl"
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Spazzfist |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 13, 2004 - 11:50 AM
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Joined: Aug 16, 2004
Canada
Posts: 3954
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
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KarlLagerbottom wrote: You are the first on the hit list my friend. If you bring those woodies...you better bring some Woodglue for your sell-out Treeman! he will feel the wrath of the Old School Treemen.
A treeman on a wood elf team? Not for me thanks! I feel that they just slow me down! Also in a tournament like this who can afford one?
Whichever team I bring, just be prepared for some serious hurts!
Spazz
P.S. Is it considered a foul if you give a halfling a "pink belly" slapping on the pitch? |
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#1 Nurgle coach in Canada (formerly the world!)
#1 Snotling coach in Canada
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 13, 2004 - 11:54 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 2319
Location: United States of America
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| Not if it's the Master Chef (aka Head Coach) |
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aka Rob (NAF #248)
President of the Lord Borak Fan Club
Founder of the GCLU
Commissioner, TO, Goblin King, NEBBN TSO
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 13, 2004 - 01:08 PM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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Posts: 1148
Location: Undisclosed
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 13, 2004 - 04:50 PM
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Joined: Oct 24, 2003
Posts: 1671
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BUD wrote: well Brian and other fellow Deathbowl attendee's that actually know who the heck I am, I will not beable to attend this coming weekend as moola has gotten in the way... my lack of employment has left me rather dry on that front so I gotta say no to geeking. Next year for sure though! I plan on being a student so I won't have money anyways, whats another debt right?
good luck to all and may the TBBF bring er where she belongs! (to my hands)
Yeah right! You're just worried that the TBBF bunch will backstab you again! |
_________________
They will slowly add bits of the vault in on each RR leading up to 2007, starting with LRB 4.0, so it will be a slow and agonising death for BB.
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Da_Scum |
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Post subject:
Posted: Oct 14, 2004 - 05:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
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Posts: 194
Location: Undisclosed
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Zombie wrote: BUD wrote: well Brian and other fellow Deathbowl attendee's that actually know who the heck I am, I will not beable to attend this coming weekend as moola has gotten in the way... my lack of employment has left me rather dry on that front so I gotta say no to geeking. Next year for sure though! I plan on being a student so I won't have money anyways, whats another debt right?
good luck to all and may the TBBF bring er where she belongs! (to my hands)
Yeah right! You're just worried that the TBBF bunch will backstab you again!
It's not back-stabbing when the Git deserves it for what he said about Da Commish's mother...
...even if she is not a bad shag... |
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"Even the Goblin Coach eats the +1 to Injury roll..."
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