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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
 Posted: May 09, 2005 - 06:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
Posts: 728
Location: England
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On the subject of sportsmanship I'm afraid that it really is needed. There was a German there who would constantly cheat if you didn't watch him. And I mean on the level of walking through tackle zones and not making the rolls unless told to by his opponent or moving further than his MA, that sort of blatant cheating.
Even without that guy I think it is a good thing to generally keep it in players' minds during the tournament by having a score for it.
I finished joint first on game points alone but was knocked down to joint third overall purely by sportsmanship points. |
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Indigo |
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Posted: May 09, 2005 - 10:48 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
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I think the way sportsmanship was used in this tournament was a shambles though. There is a need to have a way of penalising people for poor sportsmanship but not for rewarding good games.
The trouble is, sportsmanship and exciting games are two different things but GW gets them confused. It gives the impression that if a game is exciting and your opponent was friendly you should give it a classic, yet also says if you have a fun game it should be "great" only. Too wooly, too subjective. What makes it worse is that these points have a vast effect on the overall rankings and the match pairings too.
What is sporting in BB? Not using IP is sporting, not using 4mins is sporting - both these things are concessions to improve the game, to play your opponent and compare skill rather than trying to trip them up on technicalities. Same holds true for allowing usage of the pass template at any time for example.
What isn't sporting is a great game between two coaches who have fun - that's just an exciting one!
I saw a good few coaches look at each other and then give max sporting points. THAT is cheating and not sporting, rather ironic IMO. |
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NAF #60
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Indigo |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2005 - 10:52 AM
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Da Warboss
Joined: Feb 12, 2003
England
Posts: 2168
Location: England
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worth adding too - the rules pack clearly stated anyone give a Classic or Scrap result would have to justify to a ref.
That didn't happen once. What's the point of having a clear rule like this without enforcing it? |
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NAF #60
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Aramil |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2005 - 10:57 AM
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Joined: Mar 17, 2003
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Posts: 424
Location: Rovigo, Italy
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Sportmanship IS subjective!
That's why in Italy we don't have it (as a prize, I mean  ) or at least we have it separate from the tournament points.
Sportmanship shouldn't influence the ranking in a positive way... but only penalize unsportive players. |
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Fulvio Cavicchi
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 09, 2005 - 11:29 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
England
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Location: England
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Indigo wrote: worth adding too - the rules pack clearly stated anyone give a Classic or Scrap result would have to justify to a ref.
That didn't happen once. What's the point of having a clear rule like this without enforcing it? Now this I totally agree with. They should have had the refs get justifications from at least some of them.
I guess what they should do as a minimum is set up their database so that it flags up the second time a coach gives out a Classic/Scrap and prompt the refs to go and get a justification.
At the moment the points system gives you more for being good than it takes away for being bad. Perhaps that should be reversed so if you're good you get a pat on the back and if you're bad you get beaten with sticks. |
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Squig87 |
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Posted: May 09, 2005 - 02:23 PM
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Joined: May 15, 2004
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I'll agree that the there is a problem with sportsmanship points at the BB. There was blatent cheating with the sportsmanship points, I saw it myself.
It was confusing what to give. 4 of my games were truely classic in my eyes, and I gave out 2 classic games for the "sporting" opponents. I however recieved 4 classic games. My games were certainly unique and exciting (for all 3 undead vs undead brawls I was out cas'ed but still managed to push for a result) but I felt I was sporting... but shouldnt everyone be sporting?
I mean all of my opponents were nice guys, and all didnt like illeagal procedures and turn time limits. I think there should be only 2 options, sporting and unsporting. I dont expect any of my opponents to be unsporting, so why should they get extra points for it? Only minus points for being unsporting I think.
As a sidenote, I finished 12th which I basically robbed because of sportsmanship points.
@Mordredd did you play the German in question? I was the guy sweating and swearing at my luck in the Undead brawl a table down from you at game 5. |
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IceStella |
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Posted: May 09, 2005 - 04:25 PM
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Joined: May 15, 2004
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Wouldn't it then make more sense (when adding up the game points) to put the sportsmanship points in after the grand total, along with the most cas/td's?
That way the points earned for sportsmanship can go towards the Sportsmanship trophy (like the cas/td trophy) but don't have an effect on the grand total, and therefore the tourney ranking?
If that wouldn't work please tell me, cos I'd love to learn more.
Edit - Just read Aramil's post...that's the kind of thing I meant. Sorry for repeating. |
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Dysartes |
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Posted: May 09, 2005 - 05:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 18, 2005
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| Side note - can anyone explain how the League was worked out, as the guy who won overall seems to be second in it (if I'm not mistaken)? |
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Emi78 |
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Posted: May 09, 2005 - 05:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 18, 2003
Spain
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Location: Spain
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| Congratulations Dan and Nacho!, you are great!..., and thanks to everybody for the painting contest votes, i'm very happy with this prize... |
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 member nº 3796
Emi78's Tournament History
Last edited by Emi78 on Nov 08, 2005 - 03:02 PM; edited 1 time in total
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Dave |
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Posted: May 10, 2005 - 12:01 AM
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da Veiz-Prez
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 895
Location: Netherlands
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| the grand final stands apart from that last league prize .. |
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First ever poster on the NAF site, Former Prez' proverbial pain in the bum and NTO-Netherlands
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Doubleskulls |
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Posted: May 10, 2005 - 12:06 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Mar 05, 2003
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Location: Kent, UK
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Dysartes wrote: Side note - can anyone explain how the League was worked out, as the guy who won overall seems to be second in it (if I'm not mistaken)?
Dan who won did so on game score alone (i.e. only the results of his matches counted). Olaf who won overall made up the difference with sportsmanship and painting scores. |
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Ian 'Double Skulls' Williams
SLOBB
NAF Racial Results
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cluster |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 10, 2005 - 01:15 AM
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Joined: Mar 10, 2005
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| The sportsmanship thing is an issue in all the tourneys, I do alot of Warhammer and 40k ones and it's either rubbish game, ok game, great game as with BB. I think you can have a rubbish game with sporting opponents, and it is easy to fudge it. The last 40k Doubles winners had 6 or 7 great games for them which basically pushed them from 10th to 1st. |
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Mordredd |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 10, 2005 - 04:35 AM
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Joined: Mar 03, 2003
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Location: England
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Squig87 wrote: @Mordredd did you play the German in question? I was the guy sweating and swearing at my luck in the Undead brawl a table down from you at game 5. No I didn't. He had ticket 101; the German I played was a great guy (ticket 102). I heard about him from one of the Danes I know and I think he or one of his friends played him early on but I'm not sure. He told me about him after the first round and again after the fourth. |
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Rodders |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 10, 2005 - 06:07 AM
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Joined: Jul 15, 2004
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Indigo wrote: I think the way sportsmanship was used in this tournament was a shambles though. There is a need to have a way of penalising people for poor sportsmanship but not for rewarding good games. .
THE WAY SPORTSMANSHIP IS DONE IS CHANGING
i was reliably informed by the events team when we questioned them how sportsmanship is done that its going to change.
they are going to trial with a warhammer tourni that you automaticly get full marks for sportsmanship and then can be marked down if you're a bad sport. if it works it will be used at next years bloodbowl |
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Maitre_tactac |
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Post subject:
Posted: May 10, 2005 - 06:37 AM
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Joined: May 05, 2003
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...
Please tell games workshop to change vocabulary!!!
as a foreign player ans as my english is not as fluent as i would like it to be!!!
i misunderstood the classic and great game, counfoud them and use one at the place of the other!
i believed classic game was a normal game and great game was the highest ranking for a game at this event
I played 4 really funny and attractive games and two others who where just nice!
so I'm really sorry for those players who deserved these points and don't get them!!! |
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Last edited by Maitre_tactac on May 10, 2005 - 07:43 AM; edited 1 time in total
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