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destro |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Feb 19, 2003 - 11:42 PM
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Joined: Feb 17, 2003
Posts: 46
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four mummies with pile on? that sounds pretty rough! are they doing that to be beardy or is it part of their schtick?
we had a person who would foul and pile on every opportunity he could, even so far as to have the control of the ball next to his endzone and not score so he could keep his other players in good fouling positions. eventually word gets out about those kind of players in a league and every team ends up giving them a taste of there own medicine. it really bugs me when a player is there just to try and ruin everyone elses fun.
I agree with the toning down as well, 1/2 str round up, or maybe just a flat bonus of +2 or +3 to the roll regardless of strength. |
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Deathwing |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 04:05 AM
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Former President
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
England
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Location: England
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BloodbasherMasher wrote: There is a Khemri team in our tabletop league that has 4 mummies with Pile On. Even with the "declare before" rule we use, they still have on average 2-3 casualties APIECE. Yes, apiece. A team (high elves) was forced to play a recovery game with 4 players on the field.
I've always felt that Pile on should have a bonus of 1/2 STR, round down. But, thats a different topic altogether 
Somebody (DangerousDave on TBB) did this in a Pbem league in a deliberate attempt to prove that the Khemri team as it stands is broken.
He pretty much did. The key was the MB/PO combination, meaning that the use of PO to break armour left the +1 from the MB to go on injury.
Crucially, this turns the average roll of 7 from a stun to a KO. I believe the current version being tested has replaced MB with Foul Appearence on Khemri Mummies, and downgraded the AG on the Ra's. You can see the changed roster here:
http://www.blood-bowl.net/GWTeams/Khemri.html
I don't think that there's any question that the current Khemri team is broken, your league's experience adds to the general consensus.
That's the problem with allowing 'experimental' teams in Leagues. I guess it's not going to console your poor Helf coach that his sacrifice may well be for the greater good in the end. 
Maybe he could play with the Vamps or Ogres next, he could help prove that they're overpowered too, but this time by dishing it out!  |
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Geno |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 06:23 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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DW: We've had the same problem with a Khemri team, 4 PO mummies, not even slightly fun to play against. I only fear that the new Ogre team could go the same way with 8 of the blighters at ST5.
Still, we're going to play the 'Oldhiem Ogres' vs 'Nurgles Rotters' soon. Using the new experimental team rules of course. |
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Grumbledook |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 07:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Posts: 922
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| Personally I don't like the idea of foul appearence on mummys, just doesn't sit right. Fumbbl are testing with 3 mummies rest as was. Though this doesn't sit right either, maybe another position player to compensate would be better. |
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Jon
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AnthonyTBBF |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 07:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Toronto, ON
Posts: 1313
Location: Toronto, ON
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Piling On was doing damage to our league IMO, I had to rule the PO be used before the AV roll just recently.
It was getting to the point where it was almost the only skill being taken for ST players (and why wouldn't you really). Now that we play this way I've noticed PO being used more strategically and some more varied ST players on the pitch. |
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Orion Cup - June 8, 2013
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skummy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 09:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 506
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Quote: Deathwing:
Somebody (DangerousDave on TBB) did this in a Pbem league in a deliberate attempt to prove that the Khemri team as it stands is broken.
He pretty much did. The key was the MB/PO combination, meaning that the use of PO to break armour left the +1 from the MB to go on injury.
And yet many of the same people are looking to get an Ogre team approved with twice as many 5 strength Mighty Blow players on the pitch at once. Pointing this out to people yesterday was like trying to swim in peanut butter. I think Grumbledook was one of the few who agreed that making them all big guys is still broken.
EDIT:
Correction - only 4 of the players on Milo's Ogre roster have a 5 str and Piling On, but as it stands they can use rerolls. 0-12 have 5 str, no MB and access to only Strength skills. I'd bet PO will get choosen as the first skill 1/2 the time, and Break Tackle the other 1/2. |
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ZanzerTem |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 09:57 AM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 98
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Can you imagine if the "experimental" Ogre team get approved? Oh my god, 8 ogres with Pile On and Mighty Blow to start. Each would need only 3 casualties to start racking up points. MVP's would make getting the skill even easier. You think the Khemri are bad? Sheesh!
What the hell are they thinking? Pile On needs changed. BADLY.
Either downgrade the bonus it gets, or make it a trait. I think many would agree that this skill needs changes somehow. |
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Deathwing |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 10:05 AM
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Former President
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
England
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Somebody a while back on the GW forum proposed making PO a ST trait.
Would solve a lot of of the problems it's causing at a single stroke.
i.e. Rule consistancy (declare after rolling), Khemri, Ogres.
Interesting. I think I'd rather see that than see it remain a skill and it being either
a) Changed to 'Declare before rolling' (which makes it an anomaly) or
b) toned down.
And it'd right royally screw Norse Blitzers which can only be a "Good Thing"TM
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Ex-UK NTO,ex- Senior Tourney Co-Ordinator, ex-VP and ex-President....because Lycos says that new members don't know who I was..
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skummy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 10:07 AM
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BloodbasherMasher:
The reason I suggested it be 1/2 rounded up is to keep it in line with Claw. A piling on 3 strength player can still get +2 to crack the armour, but he has to go prone to do it. I think that's fair, since it isn't a mutation/trait - which are supposed to be better. It also makes sense to me that a 5 strength player would get +3 to pile on - but this would at least give the poor 7 armor people a chance to get through one of these blocks without getting pulped. |
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ZanzerTem |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 10:12 AM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
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So I guess it is a general consensus to either:
1) Make it a trait and keep the current description
2) keep it as a skill and reduce the bonus
Now someone flex some GW muscle and get if fixed. October rules review is coming up fast |
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skummy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 10:19 AM
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I suppose both of us should lobby Galak to get it put back on the Rules Review questions page with a big asterisk. It would probably help if we kept some data on the effect that the current rules are having, as well.
...too bad we have to wait for talkbloodbowl to come back up... |
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The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.
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ZanzerTem |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 10:29 AM
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I'm sure that MBBL is seeing some of this, right? They have to. If not, I might actually start to PBeM and rock Galak's world. I here he is playing a 1/2ling team
If MBBL is seeing this, I'm sure Galak will have it addressed. |
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Milo |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 10:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Switzerland
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Location: Zurich, Switzerland
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skummy wrote: Correction - only 4 of the players on Milo's Ogre roster have a 5 str and Piling On, but as it stands they can use rerolls. 0-12 have 5 str, no MB and access to only Strength skills. I'd bet PO will get choosen as the first skill 1/2 the time, and Break Tackle the other 1/2.
None of the players on my list have 5 ST and Piling On. Were you thinking 5 ST and Mighty Blow?
I'll say that I think the Ogre Blitzer position is virtually guaranteed to be the same as the standard ally Big Guy Ogre. The Blocker position is still very much up for debate. Best idea is to playtest the experimental team posted here and on TBB (TBB has a more recent version) and give us some data to use to determine whether they need further changes.
Milo |
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ZanzerTem |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 11:00 AM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
United States of America
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| My Ogre team will have 8 guys with Pile On, and then I'll get block (assuming no doubles ). I dont care if every Ogre I have on the pitch is prone. Chances are 1/2 of the guys I just hit are off of the field as well =/ |
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skummy |
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Post subject:
Posted: Feb 20, 2003 - 11:32 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
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Milo: Sorry, was typing fast. You're right - it should read "Strength 5 and Mighty Blow."
Having 4 blitzers that are ogres seems to bring the same problems that the original Khemri team had. I think that with Piling On working the way it does now, 2 players with 5 strength and Mighty Blow is broken. Having four of them with a good chance for more to follow is just asking for trouble. |
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The only thing to do with good advice is pass it on. It is never any use to oneself.
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