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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
 Posted: Aug 02, 2003 - 08:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
Undisclosed
Posts: 1252
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
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Two great weekends of Bloodbowl - each with its own special highlights and enjoyments. Full marks to the Spanish team overall for its rather dominant performance and particularly to Xavier for winning the Cup. Most of all, a great thanks to each of the players who were there, trooping from room to room and making the two days of mayhem superb fun.
Pics to follow in the next couple of days for Chaos Cup - thanks to Tim Hucklebery, Sean O'Sullivan, Josh and the rest and of course to Jervis for putting on a fine, fine event.
-OMM |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 03, 2003 - 06:41 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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Deathwing wrote: Any idea when the results are going in? doc_drak was/is sitting at #4 overall some 4 points off the top (prior to Gencon results), and has just finished runner up in the Chaos Cup.
I can send results to however VERY quickly ... however Brian didn't know who I was supposed to send them to. Just give me an email address and I'll shoot the results off. Also I don't know who all Brian signed up at the tournament, so it could be that someone signed up that original marked his sheet as a non-NAF member ... so paint me slightly confused as to how I should report the results.
Do I send in all the matches? Do I strip out just matches where one of the players wrote down that he was NAF or had signed up recently for it?
A little guidance and I can have results in within a day.
Galak |
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Deathwing |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 03, 2003 - 08:44 AM
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Former President
Joined: Feb 10, 2003
England
Posts: 1289
Location: England
Status: Offline
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TBH I'm not sure. I'd email Gregg and cc Jason and ask them directly.
(adds are on the 'Contact Us' page).
Just remind them to double check with Brian that they pick up anybody who may have signed up at the event and not indicated themselves as a member before the results go in. |
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 Ex-UK NTO,ex- Senior Tourney Co-Ordinator, ex-VP and ex-President....because Lycos says that new members don't know who I was..
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dlb1969 |
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Post subject: Galak and tournaments...
Posted: Aug 03, 2003 - 11:31 AM
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Joined: Feb 18, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 28
Location: Peotone
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First of all, and I know you probably don't have anything to do with this, but I think the new elf team sucks. It's not needed and the current elf teams are perfectly fine as is. The problem with tournaments isn't the cost of the elf teams, though they are a little too expensive, it's with the star players and secret weapons unbalancing effects. Neither of those facets are balanced through out. Whether that is the way it is meant to be or not I don't know. If tournaments are going to allow star players then each team should have an equal amount of closely balanced star players. The same with secreat weapons. The secret weapons may not have to be completely balanced, but I think that they should be balanced enough so that they are balanced in conjuction with the team composition. I know there is a similar problem with the dwarves, in that they are kind of expensive also. That pretty much eliminates them having a good team with star players or secret weapons. While I think that the cost hike that you implemented in the GenCon tournament kind of helped, it also made it even more impossible for those more expensive teams to have star players; other than Thrud. The dwarves for instance have only two and the deathroller is pretty much a one hit wonder and that's only if you actually roll good enough to injure someone while he is on the field. Since the deathroller gets sent off if it is knocked over it is a huge liability when facing strong star players such as any of the big guys. It's AV is a non-important attribute since you don't have to injure it to get it off the field, just knock it over. The other dwarf star player is good, but expensive when your talking about only having 1 mil to buid a team with expensive rookies to begin with.
I'd like to see an all rookie tournament done by someone at one of these conventions. Only rookie players and rookie big guys, not secret weapons or star players. I don't really care for wizards either, but I didn't see any at GenCon anyway. I'm not sure how good or bad wizards can be in the LRB rules. I know they aren't as powerful as before.
I thought the tournament was great other for the most part. The only suggestion I would have is that the painting and sportsmanship votes should be used as tie breakers and not to decide the overall champion. That should be based purely on the total points for wins, losses, ties, scoring, casualties, etc.
I think you did a great job though and applaud you. I can't wait to participate in the next tournament in my area.
GalakStarscraper wrote: On Elves .... when the new Elf team becomes official with 60k linemen ... you'll see Elves become competitive in tournaments after that.
As for next year. It will still be 4 games. I've had several folks email me that they would not play in a 5 game tournament at GenCon. So I'd rather have a fuller 4 than a smaller 5.
Next year, I'm going to actually pass out a survey so I can understand exactly how many would RATHER have a 4 game tournament vs those who WON'T PLAY in a 5 game tournament.
Oh and I've already figured out a better scoring system that would have given me the results I wanted for the tournament.
Galak |
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"I'll see you on the pitch little man!"
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 03, 2003 - 12:16 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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dlb1969,
I'll be honest ... you are the first and only person who complained about secret weapons at GenCon. Only 7 teams had secret weapons out of the 60. In fact, most the folks I talked to really like the rules that allowed the weapons a little more front and center time compared to the stars.
The 7 teams:
2 Orcs with B&C Goblin
1 Dark Elf with Poisoned Dagger
1 Dwarf with Deathroller
1 Goblin with B&C
1 Goblin with B&C and Chainsaw
1 Goblin with B&C, Chainsaw, and Bombs
Now forgive me if I don't see this as a problem at all in regards to weapons.
Also, the Underworld Cup was in Michigan last year. Rookie teams, no stars at all, no wizards, no weapons. While I had a lot of fun, I REALLY missed the extras (for me the no stars/no wizards kills my ability to bring the team I wanted).
Bottom line for me ... I had a lot of really great feedback on the star players and that the GenCon rules worked. I've had great feedback that the weapon players rules were good, and when/if secret weapon rules get added back to the game for rookie players than more teams will have them (but Elves still won't (except Dark)). And I really don't have a problem at all with allowing wizards for 150k ... as you'll notice not a single team out of 60 brought one.
There are rookie only tournaments out there ... I just don't think they are as lively as mixing in some of the other rules. Also the Star Players allowed at GenCon made for some very interesting decisions on team building. 2 Orc teams brought Morg at 280k ... they didn't do nearly as well as the Orc teams that didn't because of the fact that he sucked up just waaaayyyy too many resources to have a decent rest of the team.
However, I appreciate your feedback and I'll keep in all in mind for next year. However, even if I take painting out of scoring ... I will never take out Sportsmanship. See I have ZERO problem with a guy who goes 3 wins - 1 tie beating a guy who went 4 win-0 losses for the 1st place trophy if its sportsmanship points that change this. Blood Bowl to me is NOT ABOUT WINNING. Its about a game of tactics to be ENJOYED to several friends from all over the globe. As long as I run GenCon ... sportsmanship will account for a minimum of 15% of the total tournament points. To me a cutthroat winner ... deserves the 2nd place prize if the sportsmanship makes him lose the cup.
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neoliminal |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 03, 2003 - 04:52 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 384
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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| When are the GenCon games getting entered into the database? |
_________________
John Lewis
Ex-NAF President
Ex-BBRC member
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 03, 2003 - 07:41 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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neoliminal wrote: When are the GenCon games getting entered into the database?
Well JKL ... I'd do it myself if I knew how ... the nice thing with the spreadsheet is that everything was tracked from the point the tournament was over.
I just have no idea who to send them to ... I'll send them to Greg and see what happens.
Tom |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 03, 2003 - 07:58 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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John,
Just sent in the results of the GenCon Bowl to Gregg and Jason. If they have any questions, just have them ask. Sorry I didn't understand the procedure ... I could have mailed this a week ago.
Tom/Galak |
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Ombi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 03, 2003 - 09:27 PM
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Joined: Apr 21, 2003
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This is in response to dlb1969's post.
I don't think the new Elf team sucks, if anything they're too good. In comparison to the High Elves, the new team has Linemen and Throwers that are 10K cheaper, but have 1 less AV. That's a great tradeoff for a starting team. The Catchers and Blitzers are 10K more but have 1 more skill, which again is a fine trade. If this new team ever becomes official, I fear that it will negate the High Elf team. Maybe that's the intention in the long term? The new team is better in almost every way IMO.
As for the tournament, I really had a good time at GenCon. Galak's star player system and points system worked out well. Better than at the Chaos Cup, where every Chaos Dwarf team had Hthark as a star (even me  ). Every other team that had a decent star seemed to use theirs as well. And the chaos cup point system looked a little too simple, and counted a tie the same as a close loss. Galak's system had more details that break potential ties.
I do think that GenCon's sportsmanship and painting points should be downsized a little bit from affecting the overall score, but that's about the only possible problem I see in the tourney.
As for teams being at a disadvantage for not having/using good stars, I can see the argument for the Elves, but I disagree that Dwarfs need a good star. They all start with block, which can make a big difference on the field. And the Troll Slayers deal with the Big Guys and Star players well. And I'm not sure how many teams with stars made it to the top spots at GenCon, but my starlesss Chaos Dwarfs took #12. We don't need no stinkin' stars! 
Just my opinions.
Jim |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 04, 2003 - 08:38 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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Ombi wrote: And I'm not sure how many teams with stars made it to the top spots at GenCon, but my starlesss Chaos Dwarfs took #12. We don't need no stinkin' stars!
GenCon Bowl: 3 of the top 10 teams had a non-secret weapon Star Player
Chaos Cup: 9 of the top 10 teams had a non-secret weapon Star Player
Jim next year, you'll get part of your wish.
I'm going to greatly reduce the impact of painting. However sportsmanship will still be a big deal. I'm going to have an award for Best Tactician. This will go to a player with a better gaming record if he doesn't win 1st. (ie a 4-0 player who loses 1st place to a 3-1 player because of sportsmanship).
I think Blood Bowl is about having fun, and like I said as long as I run GenCon, the sportsmanship will be a big deal (15% of the total possbile points ... painting is going to be reduced to only 5% next year of the total possible (which is the lowest amount I can give it with the scoring system I use)).
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Ombi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 04, 2003 - 01:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 21, 2003
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Hmmmm, interesting stats for the star players in the 2 tournaments. There are definately different strategies for each of the 2 tournies.
As for the painting and sportsmanship points, I'd rather see a slight decrease for both categories instead of a big change for one and no change for the other. Ah well, we can see how it works out next year.
By the way, are the final Chaos Cup standings up yet? I tried to find them last night on the specialist page, but they were no where to be found.
Jim |
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 06, 2003 - 07:00 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
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Posts: 1252
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
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OK, test time since I've not posted pics to the board before:
 [/img]
Hmm, looks like image size could be an issue . . .
But here's one of the 40 or so coaches at the end.
There are contact sheets of all pictures as well as a master sheet of downloadable pics at the website:
www.oldmanmonkey.com
The site isn't complete yet - haven't had much time to write, but I felt the need to get the pics out, so there they are.
Enjoy!
-OMM |
_________________
Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 06, 2003 - 07:04 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 408
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| That's a nice pic of darthnoir trying to kiss jay lazer. To bad we don't have the rest of the names. The pic came out great. Thanks Old Man Monkey. |
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Snew
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 06, 2003 - 07:52 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
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Posts: 1252
Location: Undisclosed
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OK, resized some others:
Tom looking busy . . .
Brian St. James referees a rules 'discussion' between Chet and John
Jaylazer and Chris square off next to Darthnoir and Jon - carnage ensued.
smaller pic of above - hmm, JKL as RMN - any conclusions to be drawn here??
The winners, with the wrong prizes . . . .
Great people, great tourney, great time . . .
-OMM[/b] |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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neoliminal |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 06, 2003 - 04:57 PM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
Netherlands
Posts: 384
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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| i am not a crook. |
_________________
John Lewis
Ex-NAF President
Ex-BBRC member
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