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Post subject:
 Posted: Aug 22, 2005 - 06:19 PM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 408
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Justin_Kase wrote:
No problem, it was just a shocker to me as I didn't realize I had been that high..
Yeah. Being high will do that to you.  |
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Snew
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 22, 2005 - 08:55 PM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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Xtreme wrote: One thing about the sportsmanship points Tom. Marcus and I agreed that there needs to be a more discreet way of doing it for those people who want to rank the last person they played as their worst. 
Galak |
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Old_Man_Monkey |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 06:30 AM
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Joined: Apr 16, 2003
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Posts: 1252
Location: Undisclosed
Status: Offline
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Whew, home at last and slept like only a tired old man can sleep... which is sorta like a tired young man - you guys just don't creak when you get out of bed...
Wonderful weekend - great to see all the old friends and make some new ones... like Galak, I'm excited about the possibilities for the game come 2006...
Khemri are definitely NOT my cup of tea so I am resolved to finish painting up Skaven...
But as always, the fellowship of friends was the highlight and the "JJ with margarita" pic may have to be a caption contest... glad to see everyone made it home safely
Great job Tom as always... as others have addressed my concerns, nothing left to say but congrats to Dennis, Xtreme, Marcus, Val, and all the other NATF winners (Courtyard rulez!)...
Until the next time...
OMM |
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Tournament Organizer - The Three Kingdoms Challenge
Semi-retired NAF staff
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CoachGrodd |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 06:35 AM
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Joined: Feb 11, 2003
Posts: 23
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Hi,
I've had an account here for a while but haven't posted (sort of got out of blood bowl for sheer lack of time for a while.)
Anyway, I played in my first Gencon tourney as well, and it was great to see all these people playing the game and enjoying it. I was running the lone, solitary Nurgle's Rotters team and losing spectacularly (ok, I managed to win 2 games, I guess it could have been worse) but still had a great time anyway. I am curious though why my sportsmanship was so low. I'm hoping it was one of those things where nobody knew me so they gave the edge to people who they were familiar with. Plus, everybody I played against was a great sport, so maybe I just had stiff competition to try and match up against them (I know I had a tough time filling out the card.)
Anyway, I'll probably be around more in the future. |
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Another message from the good people of Grodd Corp.
Obey Grodd.
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Justin_Kase |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 09:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 05, 2005
Posts: 38
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| Yeah, I recall playing against you (1st game I believe - and you were granted a victory from my o so slow Khemri) and I didn't think you lacked anything in Sportsmanship what-so-ever, in fact, the game was rather exciting, despite some frustrating moments on both sides (damn dice). I can't speak to your other games, but I had a very enjoyable game with you and the rotters were a very interesting team - one that I had never seen in a tourney before (so a double bonus there). This year was one of the hardest for giving out Sportsmanship awards for me, I liked Jaylazer's/Karl Lagerbottom's system a little better at Philly Phrakus where you rated all players individually, but you were encouraged to give out only 1 'excellent' score. Maybe Jay or Karl(rob) can speak more on how they did theirs. |
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darthnoir |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 10:24 AM
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Joined: Feb 10, 2003
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Posts: 79
Status: Offline
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GalakStarscraper wrote: Xtreme wrote: One thing about the sportsmanship points Tom. Marcus and I agreed that there needs to be a more discreet way of doing it for those people who want to rank the last person they played as their worst. Its easy ... fill them out AWAY from your opponent and then come back and say "let's go turn in our sheets" and turn them in on the other side of the table ... I just quickly check and it will be away from your opponent.
Galak
This is probably picking nits, but unless you make it "the policy" for how to turn in the final round sheets it's going to be a problem. People are going to want to know "Why don't you want to show me your sportsmanship rankings? Did you ding me?". And that's going to lead to bad feelings imho.
Unfortunately, my last opponent was the one I rated the lowest points. He saw this and it really upset up him. I actually lost sleep over the thought of ruining someone's experience at the tournament by being honest in my rankings.
As a player, I would just prefer that it was policy to have it either turned in on a separate form or some other mechanism to keep this feedback private.
I do understand that no system is perfect (I'm already agonizing over how to handle this for the Kubla-con tournament I'll hopefully run next year). |
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jaylazer |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 10:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 241
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The way we did it was this:
You rate each opponent on a scale of 1 - 3. I tried to stress that 2 was what was expected. That means the player was as good a sportsman as you expect everyone to be. 1 and 3 are both supposed to be extremes.
We didn't have an limit on the number of 3s or 1s you could give out. I think we will limit it to just one or two 3s. Not sure about the 1s yet. I don't think people give out too many 1s. We'll have to work this out. |
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Jay
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Hoshi_Komi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 11:38 AM
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Joined: Nov 23, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 550
Location: United States of America
Status: Offline
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| My tourney I had people rate their top two opponents. seemed to work OK. |
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Ombi |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 11:43 AM
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Joined: Apr 21, 2003
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Yeah, sportsmanship was a really tough choice for me too. All of my opponents were great to play against. I don't like having to give someone last place on my sportsmanship sheet. I like Jaylazers idea, but many people may still give all of their opponents 2's regardless, which would kind of make the voting pointless. I'm guilty of this in my local 40K league with a similar system (giving most people max scores), but I'm trying to change the way I look at the voting there. I don't know, it's hard to get a sportmanship score that everyone's happy with.
I was happy to see some old faces from 2003 Gencon, 2003 Chaos Cup and this year's Gamecon in South Bend. I even faced Cory again this year. I faced his Dwarfs 2 years ago with my Chaos Dwarfs, and we had the rematch in this year's tourney. Thanks to a last minute '1', I managed to preserve the tie. I was sweating though. 
I met some fantastic people for the first time too. Ben (Krieg Spielers), Michael (Iron workers), Bob (Jeremiah's Little Dogs) and Ken (Divnie Wind).
Just like the last Gencon I went to, I had a great time. I can't thank Tom enough for running this every year. I hope to be there again next year and I'll try to bring even more local coaches with me.
Jim |
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GalakStarscraper |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 11:44 AM
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Ex-Rulz Committee
Joined: Feb 11, 2003
United States of America
Posts: 1562
Status: Offline
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jaylazer wrote: The way we did it was this:
You rate each opponent on a scale of 1 - 3. I tried to stress that 2 was what was expected. That means the player was as good a sportsman as you expect everyone to be. 1 and 3 are both supposed to be extremes.
We didn't have an limit on the number of 3s or 1s you could give out. I think we will limit it to just one or two 3s. Not sure about the 1s yet. I don't think people give out too many 1s. We'll have to work this out. My problem is how does this make it any better for what Marcus described unless the player would have received a 2.
Which I guess is what he is saying.
I could go to a system like jay is describing.
You give a 1 to the Most Sporting player.
You give a 2 to a normal player
You give a 3 to poor Sportsman
Each player must award one and only one 1 ... 3s are unlimited.
I might be willing to try that. ... I'll think about it.
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jaylazer |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 11:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
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Just realized I wasn't clear what a 3 and 1 were.
3 was outstandingly good and 1 was outstandingly bad.
The usual problem with "RATING" systems is that people almost always give max to everyone.
My plan was to only allow people to give max to one person.
I haven't made up my mind whether they should be able to give the bad mark to more than one.
I think that gken1's idea will work pretty much the same as mine. His giving points to the top two is similar to giving max to just one person, since everyone else will have mostly 2s.
I like mine better because it gives the opportunity for bad sportsman to see that and think about why they got marked so low. Not sure if this actually does work but if it helps one person become a better sportsman them I'm happy.
My system doesn't really address Marcus' problem. I did that at my tournament by having the players turn in a sportsmanship form at the end of the tournament. It was completely separate from the game sheets. |
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Jay
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Justin_Kase |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 12:01 PM
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Joined: Apr 05, 2005
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Jay, I would say keep it with being allowed to give unlimited 1's to people, odds are it won't often be used anyway (since we are all so nice  ), but if you encounter multiple examples of poor sportsmanship, you should be allowed to reflect that. On the other side, the 3 should be reserved for a single person - essentially, who was the most fun, best sportsman person you played in that tourney. Hopefully it will sort itself out. |
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jaylazer |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 12:13 PM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
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That's pretty much what I had in mind.
This should allow you to single out the best Sportsman of the tournament but allow poor sportsmanship to show up. |
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Jay
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KarlLagerbottom |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 12:52 PM
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Joined: May 25, 2004
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Posts: 1148
Location: Undisclosed
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I concur.
:ahem:
-RobO |
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Karl Lagerbottom - Dwarf Blocker of Renown
NAF Member #5236
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jaylazer |
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Post subject:
Posted: Aug 23, 2005 - 12:58 PM
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Joined: Feb 14, 2003
Posts: 241
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KarlLagerbottom wrote: I concur.
:ahem:
-RobO
That saves some time. We don't need to discuss this for next years Phrakus. |
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Jay
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